Disappointed with YAMAHA A-S501

[DocG]

I tried this before buying new amp and yes, it worked but there were such issues like constant humming coming from the sub etc etc. I don't like ghetto configurations of this type if you know what I mean. I want to have equi[pment connected the right way.

Actually no, I don't know what you mean. Many prefer the sub to be connected this way, even when a line out is available. It often 'blends' better with the main speakers. Why would B&W provide the speaker level inputs if that's the wrong way of connecting the sub? The constant humming was probably a grounding issue.

Yeah you're right.But if it was a grounding issue, how come there is no hum now? Did it become grounded when connected to the sub out? I don't get it.

Maybe the speaker cable makes for a huge loop that picks up hum, and sends it to the sub's amplifier, which - indeed - amplifies the hum too. While the interconnect is shielded, and doesn't pick it up: nothing to amplify for your sub, no hum.

I know there's far more knowledgeable folk here, who can analyze this with more authority. It would be nice if shielding your speaker cable resolved your issue, so you could keep enjoying your Marantz amp...

Can I have a referral please

If it was the cable, how come that other speakers connected with the same cables do not hum?

Maybe cos they're passive speakers, so no amplification of the 'signal'? I should refer you to a specialist here...

Andy, Trev, Paul, Dave, Vlad, ... or anybody else in the know: care to comment? Should the OP wrap his speaker cable in tin foil or something?

 

[TrevC]

I tried this before buying new amp and yes, it worked but there were such issues like constant humming coming from the sub etc etc. I don't like ghetto configurations of this type if you know what I mean. I want to have equi[pment connected the right way.

Actually no, I don't know what you mean. Many prefer the sub to be connected this way, even when a line out is available. It often 'blends' better with the main speakers. Why would B&W provide the speaker level inputs if that's the wrong way of connecting the sub? The constant humming was probably a grounding issue.

Yeah you're right.But if it was a grounding issue, how come there is no hum now? Did it become grounded when connected to the sub out? I don't get it.

Maybe the speaker cable makes for a huge loop that picks up hum, and sends it to the sub's amplifier, which - indeed - amplifies the hum too. While the interconnect is shielded, and doesn't pick it up: nothing to amplify for your sub, no hum.

I know there's far more knowledgeable folk here, who can analyze this with more authority. It would be nice if shielding your speaker cable resolved your issue, so you could keep enjoying your Marantz amp...

Can I have a referral please

If it was the cable, how come that other speakers connected with the same cables do not hum?

Maybe cos they're passive speakers, so no amplification of the 'signal'? I should refer you to a specialist here...

Andy, Trev, Paul, Dave, Vlad, ... or anybody else in the know: care to comment? Should the OP wrap his speaker cable in tin foil or something?

Make sure the entire caboodle including the sub is only connected to one mains wall socket. That will eliminate grounding hum loop issues. Screening the speaker cables won't fix it, the impedances are too low. My best guess is the new amp is double insulated and the amp ground isn't connected to mains ground, which would avoid hum loops.

 

[davedotco]

This is probably a very simple issue.

It needs taking apart and refitting step by logical step, checking each connection and available different options. One thing to check is whether the amplifier and the subwoofer have common earths on the speaker connections and also whether signal ground and chassis ground are linked or if the signal is allowed to 'float'.

This sounds quite complex, but it is easier to do than it is to explain. It is unlikely that there is a fault, just a case of getting the wiring correct.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Welcome to the world of hi fidelity.

Considering the way you used your previous amp you're used to a distorted sound. (you may not think it)

It'll take some time getting used to a clean un-boosted sound - I have a Yamaha it goes loud without distortion so don't be afraid to experiment with the volume.

If you have an active sub and it hums - turn it down. Have you got it turned up to 11 to try and maximise bass?

you should seriously consider the level you're buying at.

BX2's and that Marantz will not give you the sound you crave nor the as501.

Take a visit down cash converters see what's in that'll give you the sort of power you want.

 

[Vladimir]

I remember once troubleshooting my head off with a similar humming/fuzzing amp. It turned out it was a fluorescent desk lamp I had plugged in the same extention brick with the amp.

It's most likely something silly as that or ground loop or improper earthing.

 

[DocG]

You see, Dr. Delban? On this forum, you can get valuable advice, like TrevC's, Dave's or Vlad's...

And some claptrap. Meet Thompson! *preved*

 

[luckylion100]

the endless petty sl*gging off that seems to have ruined this forum of late.

But I agree with Thompson re the OP's expectations re his equipment and the way he was previously listening to his music with tone contols set to 'extreme'. Like I said way back in post 4 the sub woofer I haven't a clue about, the boffins seem to have that sorted.

Feel free to tell me I'm talking sh*t if it pleases. No wink.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

You see, Dr. Delban? On this forum, you can get valuable advice, like TrevC's, Dave's or Vlad's...

And some claptrap. Meet Thompson! *preved*

Wow....did I upset you?

Why not explain to the Dr what the claptrap is.

Or better still come into the mains thread. That's no longer active they've gone a little crazy in there since I contributed.

Insult me in there lets test wits.....lol.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

the endless petty sl*gging off that seems to have ruined this forum of late.

But I agree with Thompson re the OP's expectations re his equipment and the way he was previously listening to his music with tone contols set to 'extreme'. Like I said way back in post 4 the sub woofer I haven't a clue about, the boffins seem to have that sorted.

Feel free to tell me I'm talking sh*t if it pleases. No wink.

?

 

Cheers Luckylion but don't expect too much from the cowards that troll the site.

Anyway not wanting to derail this thread I'll step out.

DogG is still on line so I'll see if he turns up in the mains thread.

 

[DocG]

You see, Dr. Delban? On this forum, you can get valuable advice, like TrevC's, Dave's or Vlad's...

And some claptrap. Meet Thompson! *preved*

Wow....did I upset you?

Why not explain to the Dr what the claptrap is.

Or better still come into the mains thread. That's no longer active they've gone a little crazy in there since I contributed.

Insult me in there lets test wits.....lol.

My point is: the OP seemed pretty happy with his Marantz (heavily using his tone controls -- I don't need those, he does, he's happy with them). He's no longer happy cos he wants to use a sub with it and that led to a humming problem. While we try to solve the humming problem for him (so he can happily use his beloved Marantz again), you pop in and tell him he should get used to that other sound he doesn't like and that if his sub buzzes, he should turn the volume down.

Maybe 'claptrap' is too strong a word (you can blame my insufficient English if you please), but to say the least: it was not very helpful!

Sorted?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

You see, Dr. Delban? On this forum, you can get valuable advice, like TrevC's, Dave's or Vlad's...

And some claptrap. Meet Thompson! *preved*

Wow....did I upset you?

Why not explain to the Dr what the claptrap is.

Or better still come into the mains thread. That's no longer active they've gone a little crazy in there since I contributed.

Insult me in there lets test wits.....lol.

My point is: the OP seemed pretty happy with his Marantz (heavily using his tone controls -- I don't need those, he does, he's happy with them). He's no longer happy  cos he wants to use a sub with it and that led to a humming problem. While we try to solve the humming problem for him (so he can happily use his beloved Marantz again), you pop in and tell him he should get used to that other sound he doesn't like and that if his sub buzzes, he should turn the volume down.

Maybe 'claptrap' is too strong a word (you can blame my insufficient English if you please), but to say the least: it was not very helpful!

Sorted? 

Would it have killed you to just say that in the first place?

A 45watt amp and a pair of BX2's can be easily bettered for a more powerful sound.

From what I can tell its what he wants.

A suggestion to move away from budget hifi makes good sense.

As for the humming - if he does have an active sub connected to his speaker turned up to max....that will generate a hum, turning it down won't hurt. If it doesn't fix it he can always try the other suggestions.

Were is there a problem?

 

[SteveR750]

I remember once troubleshooting my head off with a similar humming/fuzzing amp. It turned out it was a fluorescent desk lamp I had plugged in the same extention brick with the amp.

It's most likely something silly as that or ground loop or improper earthing.

Have you not learnt anything?

 

[Will62]

The Amp may need a breaking in period just like speakers. A few years ago I purchased a Qinpu A 3 hybrid tube/solid state amp. It did not sound that great out of the box. Rolled the tubes after a few hours and then let it stay on for something like 48 straight hours. Suddenly the sound became more refined and the sound stage was what I had hoped for.

Bought a new Dayton T Class amp about a year ago. Same deal. Needed to run it a few hours before the sound became more refined and the sound stage opened up.

 

[TrevC]

The Amp may need a breaking in period just like speakers. A few years ago I purchased a Qinpu A 3 hybrid tube/solid state amp. It did not sound that great out of the box. Rolled the tubes after a few hours and then let it stay on for something like 48 straight hours. Suddenly the sound became more refined and the sound stage was what I had hoped for.

Bought a new Dayton T Class amp about a year ago. Same deal. Needed to run it a few hours before the sound became more refined and the sound stage opened up.

Amplifiers do not need breaking in. Your ears do that.

 

[steve_1979]

Amplifiers do not need breaking in. Your ears do that.

Technically it's your brain not your ears that are breaking in, or rather adjusting to a new sound. But yes TrevC is right, amplifiers do not need breaking in. You do that.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

The Amp may need a breaking in period just like speakers.  A few years ago I purchased a Qinpu A 3 hybrid tube/solid state amp.  It did not sound that great out of the box.  Rolled the tubes after a few hours and then let it stay on for something like 48 straight hours.  Suddenly the sound became more refined and the sound stage was what I had hoped for. ?

Bought a new Dayton T Class amp about a year ago.  Same deal.  Needed to run it a few hours before the sound became more refined and the sound stage opened up.

Amplifiers do not need breaking in. Your ears do that.

....... It's like he does this deliberately...... Honestly.

 

[Vladimir]

Have you not learnt anything?

It matches perfectly with my cardigans and burlington socks.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Amplifiers do not need breaking in. Your ears do that.

Technically it's your brain not your ears that are breaking in, or rather adjusting to a new sound. But yes TrevC is right, amplifiers do not need breaking in. You do that.

Sorry but that's a ridiculous thing to say.

Will62 shared his experience with the forum of what he found a few heat cycles through two separate amps could do - his post may or may not have any value to the OP.

TrevC did not share Will62's experience neither has he had any experience with the amps referred to I'd bet.

His insistence that his ignorant belief in his dulled hearing is the reference point for all humanity is comical.

Whats even more absurd is that not even a month ago he was preaching all amps sound the same.

Now in a thread about 2 amps in the same price bracket that do NOT sound the same he decides to bless us with his 'WISDOM' again.

Why would anyone take anything he says as anything more than hokum!

Don't want to derail the thread but good grief.......

 

[TrevC]

Amplifiers do not need breaking in. Your ears do that.

Technically it's your brain not your ears that are breaking in, or rather adjusting to a new sound. But yes TrevC is right, amplifiers do not need breaking in. You do that.

Sorry but that's a ridiculous thing to say.

Will62 shared his experience with the forum of what he found a few heat cycles through two separate amps could do - his post may or may not have any value to the OP.

TrevC did not share Will62's experience neither has he had any experience with the amps referred to I'd bet.

His insistence that his ignorant belief in his dulled hearing is the reference point for all humanity is comical.

Whats even more absurd is that not even a month ago he was preaching all amps sound the same.

Now in a thread about 2 amps in the same price bracket that do NOT sound the same he decides to bless us with his 'WISDOM' again.

Why would anyone take anything he says as anything more than hokum!

Don't want to derail the thread but good grief.......

Thanks for that. I now feel far more intelligent.

 

[MeanandGreen]

Now in a thread about 2 amps in the same price bracket that do NOT sound the same

They don't sound the same with the tone controls wound up to max. The Marantz must boost by a couple more db than the Yamaha. I wonder how different they'd sound with the tone circuits bypassed.

 

[Vladimir]

Dr. Delban,

Not sure if this was suggested earlier in the thread, but here goes.

Do you have the amplifier impedance selector in the back set on LOW?

Check the polarity of your speaker connection 10 times.

At what volume knob position do you listen to the amp when you have these problems?

 

[Dr. Delban]

Thank you guys for all your advice.

Some of you haven't read my original posts and misunderstood the situation, but i't ok.

I am going to use the Yamaha until Thursday. Then I will hook up the Marantz back again and listen to the same tracks I have listened over the past week on the Yamaha.
To be honest the main issue at the moment is the sound of high frequencies. Treble sounds "sandy" as compared to Marantz which sounded sharp and "jingly".

On the Marantz even with loudness set to off, I used to get noticeably sharper high frequencies than on the Yamaha.

The reason why I used loudness button on the Marantz is because I didn't have the woofer, until recently. These 4 speakers I have do not produce enough bass, especially at low volumes, and they need to be boosted. Recently I have established a taste for more treble too, since I started listening to plenty of female singers. I realised that more treble is important and I like it.

Another thing, the DM110i's tweeters don't work, so I must turn the treble up a few notches to compensate this. I have always used these speakers to support low and mid frequencies. They match very well with the BX2's, they add this harsh vintage taste to the sound. In future I am going to get them replaced.

What I need now help with is how to correctly set-up:

Marantz PM6002

Speakers - all hooked with bare wires:
MA BX2

B&W DM110i

B&W ASW608 woofer at speaker level.

I need this setup to be hum-free.

The main things I am struggling with: how to correctly connect two wires to one port on the amp? How to stop the hum? How to ground the amp and woofer? Which speakers should I pair with the sub and connect together to the same terminals on the amp?

Issues I had last time I tried this: I hooked up BX2's as "System 1" and woofer as "System 2", left the DM110's disconnected. When there was no signal and amp + both speaker systems turned on, I could hear a silent but constant hum coming from the sub. The moment I switched the "System 2" on the amp to off (using a button on the front of the amp) the woofer would start humming very very loud. The only way to stop this was unplugging the mains. Same thing happened every time I switched the entire amp off.

To me it doesn't seem like a grounding issue, but I am a noob so I could be wrong.

Would this happen too if I hook the sub up to the same terminals with another pair of speakers?

I need to try and make this work by the end of Thursday, so that I can return the Yamaha and get a refund under the 14-day returns policy.

Thanks!

Also over the last two days I have thought that maybe I have gone the wrong way, and instead of buying a woofer I should have bought a pair of floorstanders (like MA BX6) instead, and get rid of the BX2s? This way I would be able to keep the amp I like. Also the money I spent on the sub and new amp would be enough to get a pair of floorstanders.

Anyway, please help me with the Marantz 4.1 setup.

 

[Cynic-al]

 

[Vladimir]

1) Do not do a 4.1 setup. Neither of the two amps are powerfull to cope with it. Do 2.1 only.

2) Do not use the faulty B&W speakers in any scenario.

3) Do not plug the active subwoofer to amplifier speaker terminals, but use the sub-out RCA cable only and see if that improves things.

4) Read and learn how to use the variable loudness on the Yamaha, since its unique and counterintuitive to use. Instructions in the manual.

What I gather is, you are a psychonaut who enjoys his electronica loud, uses underpowered (and damaged) speakers, underpowered amps, and runs a wrong setup for his music preferences.

I'd recommend more powerfull amp + floorstander combo, namely the Roksan Kandy K2 / Behringer A500 + MA BX6 / B&W DM604.

As for the hum, its either ground loop or something generating noise in your house (fluorescent lamps, ceiling fans etc.). Try the humming amp in different location or at a friends house to confirm its not a faulty unit.

 

[davedotco]

You need to work through this in a logical manner, changing one thing at a time to check what is happening.

Connect your 'good' speakers only to the Marantz, try first speaker A, then B and check for hum.

Disconnect the speakers and do exactly the same for the sub only, check for hum and report what happens, you should get a nice bass 'rumble' on music and quiet otherwise.

(Also what speaker cable are you using to the sub? It might help to know.)