Devialet Phantom II vs. KEF LS50 Wireless II

[sidgriffey]

I am an owner of two Devialet Phantom 1’s and am considering adding to my mix either a pair of Devialet Phantom II or a pair of KEF LS50 Wireless II. Can anyone speak to their experience of these and recommend a route? I use Tidal, Apple Music, Amazon Music and Qobuz in my mix of sources (hi-if tier for all) as well as Roon. Fairly open-concept space with minimal rug or curtaining, where the phantom 1’s are in a living room and these second speakers would be in an open dining room area and faces perpendicular kind of like an L. Photo of the phantom 1’s for reference.

 

[rainsoothe]

The Kefs won't do the anti-social volumes the Devialets are capable of. For the record, I'm not a big fan of either, but the Devialets at least can make it sound like you're at a loud live venue.

 

[sidgriffey]

The Kefs won't do the anti-social volumes the Devialets are capable of. For the record, I'm not a big fan of either, but the Devialets at least can make it sound like you're at a loud live venue.

This is helpful. If I’m looking in this territory (I.e., powered speakers for streaming) do you turn to something by B and O instead or is there anything else in mind? I think you’re speaking to what I’m concerned with: that there be a bit of vivacity and character to the sound. But I do what some hi-to integrity because I tend to geek out with the specs.

 

[rainsoothe]

This is helpful. If I’m looking in this territory (I.e., powered speakers for streaming) do you turn to something by B and O instead or is there anything else in mind? I think you’re speaking to what I’m concerned with: that there be a bit of vivacity and character to the sound. But I do what some hi-to integrity because I tend to geek out with the specs.

Specs don't tell the whole story - not because they might be wrong, but just because they might be irrelevant to your tastes or your hearing. It doesn't matter if a system has a perfectly flat delivery if your hearing is shot in the upper frequencies, for instance. Of course something like DSP or equalization might help in this area.

The only B&O I heard is their cone-looking speakers in a lounge/party setting, so that can't tell me much about the sound quality except that it went decently loud and sounded good - but in that noisy and drunken setting. So what do I know? 🙂)

The main reason I stay away from completely integrated solutions is that 1 - having separate stuff alows me to upgrade my system in smaller steps, and 2 - because digital and especially streaming stuff changes so quickly, it's nice to be able to keep the majority of a system that works well for me and just change the part that can keep up with current changes. On this, my setup isn't ideal, because I'm using a streaming preamp, but as soon as I have enough cash to change to 2 separate electronics (streamer and preamp) or even 3 (streaming transport, dac and preamp) that are also a major upgrade over what I have, I will. Luckily, what I have sounds great, so it's worth putting up with outdated and buggy software - but it is an annoyance that I'd gladly do without, which brings me to my next point:

Don't underestimate the importance of good software, when it comes to streaming. Personally, I'd look into 3 things when it comes to this: 1 - seamless software, 2 - Roon compatibility and 3 - making sure that the product can do gapless playback. Because, believe it or not, some products, even expensive ones like the first gen KEF LS50 Wirless, can't do something as basic as gapless playback.

One thing I didn't understand from your reply - do you WANT your system to have character and be able to do party levels, or NOT?

 

[sidgriffey]

Thanks for your reply. I would say in between really. I think I am going to roll with the kefs but try to optimize things through a good Roon setup with nucleus. I don’t know what Dac to use with it, however 🙁

 

[davidf]

Personally, I find Phantoms to be overdone with regards to bass, a bit like Beats headphones. Probably sound amazing to youngsters and the music they listen to, but far from a real “hi-fi” product with regards to presenting anything like even frequency response.

 

[sidgriffey]

Thank you for the input. I decided I am going to go with the Keys but get a Roon Nucleus and connect it to a Chord Qutest Dac.

Im open to any feedback on how to additionally optimize this setup!

 

[nopiano]

Thank you for the input. I decided I am going to go with the Keys but get a Roon Nucleus and connect it to a Chord Qutest Dac.

Im open to any feedback on how to additionally optimize this setup!

All I was going to say is can you not find a dealer to listen at? They’d help with set up and system matching issues too. KEF demonstrated their speakers with the Innuos Zenith, so perhaps the KEF handle a digital signal, I can’t recall. If so, you’re duplicating on the DAC front, aren’t you?

Don’t overlook the Linn Series 3 as you’re looking at luxury priced wireless products.

https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/linn-series-3-review

 

[RoA]

The active Meta's do many things well but their biggest asset is also one of their problems; DSP or ... specifically what it does to bass.

I found that getting good, natural bass from the speaker is nigh on impossible, no matter what the settings. DSP seems to stretch what is a little bookshelf too far inducing strange sounding bass which, whilst going deep (for speaker size) seems a little too artificial.

Set xover frequency and add a sub and it's fine but I cant revommend the speaker on its own unless you have a small room and listen at low'ish volume.

Not only is quoted cone diameter small but its actually further reduced by the UniQ tweeter.

The passive version does not have the 'DSP issue' and rolls off more naturally and thus sound more natural (in bass) because of it.

The Phantoms can displace a huge amount of air per size. I would not expect any contest.

Of course the LS50 wireless's midrange and treble are divine imho though some may find them too tame or distant.

I normally listen at low volume so it was not a huge issue but the DSP 'bass sound' is ever present. It also wont go very loud and bass/mid driver distortion starts at mid 80's (db).

 

[davidf]

After experimenting, I kept the bass on normal (not extended mode), and that sounds fine, and to me, more correct.

 

[rainsoothe]

Thank you for the input. I decided I am going to go with the Keys but get a Roon Nucleus and connect it to a Chord Qutest Dac.

Im open to any feedback on how to additionally optimize this setup!

The active Kefs already have a DAC, there's no need for you to get a Qutest.

 

[ultraminiature]

Initialling I found a Phantom Gold very impressive compared to my floor standing three way active speakers, not better, different, but for the size delivering as much as I wanted.

However, as reported by many owners to get the balance between the bass and tweeter you end up playing the Phantoms louder than you may like. Great for "serious" listening but not so much for listening to the radio, TV or as background music from your own music library or streaming. My floor standing speakers will maintain the balance even when at much lower volumes.

Most of the new wireless speakers that are offering streaming, DSP, active amplifiers convert all signals in to digital (even RCA and 3.5mm)and don't scale up to a surround sound system. Lag with video is seen in most. Devialet were bad on UPnP and optical input from a TV but the DOS 2 software eventually fixed the issue.

From B&O their Mozart speakers have a steaming module (Emerge, Level, Balance). When new digital connections replace the exiting ones and streaming services change software and or a hardware update is possible. The module can be replaced by the B&O dealer. That assumes B&O continue, if they crease trading or get bought out all that could change. Buchardt also have user removable electronics so if they break can be sent for repair without shipping the whole speaker.

The B&O Emerge and Level use the same drive units (doubled up in the Level as it offers a stereo speaker in one unit). The room correction works and you have control over that from the app. The audio from a pair of Emerge or pair of Levels is not bass impressive as the Phantoms, not even when compared to the small 98dB ones but for most of the time is just a better experience and easier to live with. The Levels have batteries so you can move a pair to another room and they will reset the room correction when placed back down. The B&O have a wider frequency range than the Kefs but not down to the 14/17 Hz of the Phantom models. Emerge and Level have a lip synch issue on Toslink from a TV and casting from a computer (wireless or Ethernet) as the delay is 330ms. Chrome Cast or Apple 4K TV gets around this.

Other speakers in this area are the Linn Series 3, B&W Formulation Duo and Flex (Flex do scale up to surround by adding the Bar and Bass but not the Duo), Adam Audio (Active only or DSP Active), Genelec and powered speakers like the Kanto and Michell Acoustics.

For multi-room Devialet, B&O and B&W Formation do support this. WiSA speakers do with a mix and match (B&O 18,19,20,28,50,90, Harman Kardon , Buchardt)

Without an A/B direct comparison I expect most would be happy with any of these for use with most music sources.

 

[RoA]

Formation Duo's certainly have bass, lots of it though perhaps not quite Phantom levels. They can also fill a decent size room with sound.

Their biggest problem is directionality. Move your head slightly and any coherence just falls apart. It started to really grate after only a short time. The tweeter is also not the most refined.

Sold after a short while.