i have a very good relationship with fanthorpes in hull, who basically let me take whatever i want for a weekend without any money changing hands, but this is only because they know me and i've spent money there in the past. if it's a shop where i don't have this relationship, i pay up front and get my money back when i return it, or i go somewhere else.
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chebby
Well-known member
- Jun 2, 2008
- 1,257
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JamesOK:Ive never had a home demo - what does this involve? Do you pay for the kit, take it away and then bring it back, or do they hold the money on your credit card or something?
If you have children you leave one with them.
If you don't return with the gear your child has to work for them until the debt is paid off. This is how a lot of people get started in hifi retail. The manager of our local dealership has been there since he was left, as a young child, some time in the 1970s by an irresponsible parent who absconded with a Naim 'six pack' active system and was never seen again.
If you have children you leave one with them.
If you don't return with the gear your child has to work for them until the debt is paid off. This is how a lot of people get started in hifi retail. The manager of our local dealership has been there since he was left, as a young child, some time in the 1970s by an irresponsible parent who absconded with a Naim 'six pack' active system and was never seen again.
That's pretty much what I did - auditioned a small selection and then took the 'favourite' home for a few days. I'd not been to Music Matters in Edgbaston before, but they were welcoming and accommodating. I doubt you will have any problem coming to a mutually satisfactory arrangement following the demo.
I hope you enjoy it and look forward to a report.
I hope you enjoy it and look forward to a report.
chebby:
JamesOK:Ive never had a home demo - what does this involve? Do you pay for the kit, take it away and then bring it back, or do they hold the money on your credit card or something?
If you have children you leave one with them.
If you don't return with the gear your child has to work for them until the debt is paid off. This is how a lot of people get started in hifi retail. The manager of our local dealership has been there since he was left, as a young child, some time in the 1970s by an irresponsible parent who absconded with a Naim 'six pack' active system and was never seen again.
Oh, great response!
Can you do the same with spouses or partners and such? I am really looking at hi-fi demos in a whole new light!
Perhaps a new sideline in Manager's Specials might be on the cards?
JamesOK:Ive never had a home demo - what does this involve? Do you pay for the kit, take it away and then bring it back, or do they hold the money on your credit card or something?
If you have children you leave one with them.
If you don't return with the gear your child has to work for them until the debt is paid off. This is how a lot of people get started in hifi retail. The manager of our local dealership has been there since he was left, as a young child, some time in the 1970s by an irresponsible parent who absconded with a Naim 'six pack' active system and was never seen again.
Oh, great response!
Can you do the same with spouses or partners and such? I am really looking at hi-fi demos in a whole new light!
Well had an excellent demo this afternoon. Arrived to find not only the CD and amp for each system ready for action, but also extra power supplies and another CD player (for the Cyrus) to do some extra comparisons.
Started off with the Naim as I'd had previous experience of their kit. I don't really know what I was expecting, but I had quite high hopes based on a few people having told me the XS is a big step up from the Nait 5i which I used to own. I had taken this to mean that there was a fuller sound, but I now know that's not the case. There was plenty of detail, and the amp obviously had a good grasp on the Spendor A5, very well controlled base lines and not a hint of rumble. Anyone whos listened to Naim will know, the sound was very lean, almost immediately I am sitting there thinking "come on Naim, give me a little more". Although there was certainly an improvement over the Nait 5i and CD5i it took me little more than 10 minutes to realise its just the Naim sound I don't like!
I was talking with the dealer about the Naim setup so he suggested we should swap to the Cyrus and give it a try with the same tracks (Gorillaz - Plastic Beach, a great album to suss out how well an amp handles its bass). So to start off he setup the Cyrus CD8SE with the Cyrus 8xpd amp. He'd hooked the CD player up through both the analogue interconnect and in to the DAC on the amp via a coaxial link, so it was easy to switch between the two.
Started off playing the CD player through the analogue interconnect, and within seconds it had really got my attention. Amazing levels of detail, but delivered in a far more enjoyable way than the Naim. Its as if the system arranges the sounds discreetly around the sound stage, and then shakes the arrangement about just a little nano touch, so everything falls in to place in a really nice way.
So we played a few tracks with the setup as standard, just to get a feel for some different music and how it sounds, then the dealer suggested switching to the digital coaxial input and playing the CD through that. Didn't take very long for both of us to agree it sounded better on the analogue interconnect.
Next up was to add a PSX-R to the CD8SE. I was amazed at what difference this made (and have to admit I wasnt expecting it to make such a difference). It seperated out the various components of the track a little more, and seemed to give more depth to the soundstage. It also squeezed a little more detail out from the CD, but the biggest difference was certainly the arrangement of the component parts in the sound stage (in my opinion anyway).
Next up we tried the CD XT SE+ (CD transport) straight in to the amp. This was OK, but certainly not as good as the 8SE with the PSX-R via the analogue interconnect. Didnt try the CD XT SE with a power supply attached, but the dealer said it may not have as great effect on that unit anyway, as the PSX-R powers the DAC inside the 8SE (as well as some other circuitry).
I seem to have rambled on for far too long. So in summary - Cyrus CD8SE + PSX-R and Cyrus 8xpd and Spendor A5 is a truly impressive system. The neutrality and lack of colour in the sound makes listening just enjoyable. I wasnt thinking too hard about how the music was being delivered, just enjoying listening!
Started off with the Naim as I'd had previous experience of their kit. I don't really know what I was expecting, but I had quite high hopes based on a few people having told me the XS is a big step up from the Nait 5i which I used to own. I had taken this to mean that there was a fuller sound, but I now know that's not the case. There was plenty of detail, and the amp obviously had a good grasp on the Spendor A5, very well controlled base lines and not a hint of rumble. Anyone whos listened to Naim will know, the sound was very lean, almost immediately I am sitting there thinking "come on Naim, give me a little more". Although there was certainly an improvement over the Nait 5i and CD5i it took me little more than 10 minutes to realise its just the Naim sound I don't like!
I was talking with the dealer about the Naim setup so he suggested we should swap to the Cyrus and give it a try with the same tracks (Gorillaz - Plastic Beach, a great album to suss out how well an amp handles its bass). So to start off he setup the Cyrus CD8SE with the Cyrus 8xpd amp. He'd hooked the CD player up through both the analogue interconnect and in to the DAC on the amp via a coaxial link, so it was easy to switch between the two.
Started off playing the CD player through the analogue interconnect, and within seconds it had really got my attention. Amazing levels of detail, but delivered in a far more enjoyable way than the Naim. Its as if the system arranges the sounds discreetly around the sound stage, and then shakes the arrangement about just a little nano touch, so everything falls in to place in a really nice way.
So we played a few tracks with the setup as standard, just to get a feel for some different music and how it sounds, then the dealer suggested switching to the digital coaxial input and playing the CD through that. Didn't take very long for both of us to agree it sounded better on the analogue interconnect.
Next up was to add a PSX-R to the CD8SE. I was amazed at what difference this made (and have to admit I wasnt expecting it to make such a difference). It seperated out the various components of the track a little more, and seemed to give more depth to the soundstage. It also squeezed a little more detail out from the CD, but the biggest difference was certainly the arrangement of the component parts in the sound stage (in my opinion anyway).
Next up we tried the CD XT SE+ (CD transport) straight in to the amp. This was OK, but certainly not as good as the 8SE with the PSX-R via the analogue interconnect. Didnt try the CD XT SE with a power supply attached, but the dealer said it may not have as great effect on that unit anyway, as the PSX-R powers the DAC inside the 8SE (as well as some other circuitry).
I seem to have rambled on for far too long. So in summary - Cyrus CD8SE + PSX-R and Cyrus 8xpd and Spendor A5 is a truly impressive system. The neutrality and lack of colour in the sound makes listening just enjoyable. I wasnt thinking too hard about how the music was being delivered, just enjoying listening!
plastic penguin
Well-known member
- Apr 28, 2008
- 6,530
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Good post and a fascinating comparison: I found with the XS combined with the Cyrus there was the best of both worlds in terms of sonic delivery.
Personally I like a smidgen of colour to the sound - it just gives it a depth of personality, which appeals to me.
So have you purchased the Cyruses?
Personally I like a smidgen of colour to the sound - it just gives it a depth of personality, which appeals to me.
So have you purchased the Cyruses?
Hey James, interesting - you found the same as I did - adding the psx-r to the 8SE made a big improvement. Did you try the comparison with adding it to the amplifier? I found this was less of an improvement which really surprised me!
I take it you didn't get as far as 2 or even 4 x monoblocs! To be honest it was only I heard the mono set up did the amplifier part of the Cyrus system come alive with the A5s for me.
I take it you didn't get as far as 2 or even 4 x monoblocs! To be honest it was only I heard the mono set up did the amplifier part of the Cyrus system come alive with the A5s for me.
SteveR750:
Hey James, interesting - you found the same as I did - adding the psx-r to the 8SE made a big improvement. Did you try the comparison with adding it to the amplifier? I found this was less of an improvement which really surprised me!
I take it you didn't get as far as 2 or even 4 x monoblocs! To be honest it was only I heard the mono set up did the amplifier part of the Cyrus system come alive with the A5s for me.
Steve,
Didnt add the PSX-R to the amp, although I may try that in the future. Didnt go for monoblocs either, I was extremely impressed with the 8xpd running the speakers on its own, so cant imagine what it would sound like with monoblocs. Thats the nice thing about the Cyrus setup - you can keep adding bits to it if you feel necessary!
Hey James, interesting - you found the same as I did - adding the psx-r to the 8SE made a big improvement. Did you try the comparison with adding it to the amplifier? I found this was less of an improvement which really surprised me!
I take it you didn't get as far as 2 or even 4 x monoblocs! To be honest it was only I heard the mono set up did the amplifier part of the Cyrus system come alive with the A5s for me.
Steve,
Didnt add the PSX-R to the amp, although I may try that in the future. Didnt go for monoblocs either, I was extremely impressed with the 8xpd running the speakers on its own, so cant imagine what it would sound like with monoblocs. Thats the nice thing about the Cyrus setup - you can keep adding bits to it if you feel necessary!
JamesOK:Well had an excellent demo this afternoon....
Great post James. I've not copied the lot to save space!
Great post James. I've not copied the lot to save space!
Graham_Thomas:JamesOK:
Well had an excellent demo this afternoon....
Great post James. I've not copied the lot to save space!
Yeah, I know what youre saying Graham! I knew I'd written too much when I read it back and had to scroll through it on the browser! Sorry about that...
Well had an excellent demo this afternoon....
Great post James. I've not copied the lot to save space!
Yeah, I know what youre saying Graham! I knew I'd written too much when I read it back and had to scroll through it on the browser! Sorry about that...
JamesOK:Graham_Thomas:JamesOK:
Well had an excellent demo this afternoon.... Great post James. I've not copied the lot to save space!
Yeah, I know what youre saying Graham! I knew I'd written too much when I read it back and had to scroll through it on the browser! Sorry about that...
Personally, I don't think your report was too long. It was interesting and conveyed your enjoyment and enthusiasm - so no problem.
I was disappointed by those Naim amps when I tried them with my Marantz CD63 KI Sig and Spendors. Whether it was simply a matter of poor matching or down to personal taste is a moot point. I didn't like the way the Cyrus amp partnered the same Marantz CDP either. It fascinates me that there is so much scope out there for system matching and whether a combination strikes the right chord or not with the individual.
Well had an excellent demo this afternoon.... Great post James. I've not copied the lot to save space!
Yeah, I know what youre saying Graham! I knew I'd written too much when I read it back and had to scroll through it on the browser! Sorry about that...
Personally, I don't think your report was too long. It was interesting and conveyed your enjoyment and enthusiasm - so no problem.
I was disappointed by those Naim amps when I tried them with my Marantz CD63 KI Sig and Spendors. Whether it was simply a matter of poor matching or down to personal taste is a moot point. I didn't like the way the Cyrus amp partnered the same Marantz CDP either. It fascinates me that there is so much scope out there for system matching and whether a combination strikes the right chord or not with the individual.
I have to say I really don't get Naim. I've listened to several Naim setups over the last 20 years and always felt I was being short-changed on involvement and warmth.
JoelSim:
I have to say I really don't get Naim. I've listened to several Naim setups over the last 20 years and always felt I was being short-changed on involvement and warmth.
I think I will have to agree there. I was expecting more than I actually heard. For a balanced view, perhaps I should listen to a more Naim friendly combination, but I have to say that I was underwhelmed. That may be the problem: you read posts waxing lyrical about other kit and your expectations are raised...only to be brought down to earth by your own circumstances and listening experience.
I have to say I really don't get Naim. I've listened to several Naim setups over the last 20 years and always felt I was being short-changed on involvement and warmth.
I think I will have to agree there. I was expecting more than I actually heard. For a balanced view, perhaps I should listen to a more Naim friendly combination, but I have to say that I was underwhelmed. That may be the problem: you read posts waxing lyrical about other kit and your expectations are raised...only to be brought down to earth by your own circumstances and listening experience.
ESP2009:JoelSim:
I have to say I really don't get Naim. I've listened to several Naim setups over the last 20 years and always felt I was being short-changed on involvement and warmth.
I think I will have to agree there. I was expecting more than I actually heard. For a balanced view, perhaps I should listen to a more Naim friendly combination, but I have to say that I was underwhelmed. That may be the problem: you read posts waxing lyrical about other kit and your expectations are raised...only to be brought down to earth by your own circumstances and listening experience.
I have to admit, I agree with the both of you! Like I said in my war and peace post above, I was expecting more in every department from the Nait XS compared with the Nait 5i, but I found pretty quickly it not for me!
I have to say I really don't get Naim. I've listened to several Naim setups over the last 20 years and always felt I was being short-changed on involvement and warmth.
I think I will have to agree there. I was expecting more than I actually heard. For a balanced view, perhaps I should listen to a more Naim friendly combination, but I have to say that I was underwhelmed. That may be the problem: you read posts waxing lyrical about other kit and your expectations are raised...only to be brought down to earth by your own circumstances and listening experience.
I have to admit, I agree with the both of you! Like I said in my war and peace post above, I was expecting more in every department from the Nait XS compared with the Nait 5i, but I found pretty quickly it not for me!
There is no black and white in Hi-Fi...
I have always thought that Naim and Cyrus polarised opinion when it comes to sound quality. FWIW, I have found Naim kit takes ages to come on song (even more so than Cyrus). Maybe the dealer hadn't had the XS switched on for long enough?
I have always thought that Naim and Cyrus polarised opinion when it comes to sound quality. FWIW, I have found Naim kit takes ages to come on song (even more so than Cyrus). Maybe the dealer hadn't had the XS switched on for long enough?
jockey.wilson:Maybe the dealer hadn't had the XS switched on for long enough?
Hmm, its possible, but I doubt it to be honest. Given the pretty comprehensive demo I was given, this guy knows what he's doing!
By the way - I should probably tell everyone I was at mine and SteveR750's local shop - Audio T in Cardiff.
Hmm, its possible, but I doubt it to be honest. Given the pretty comprehensive demo I was given, this guy knows what he's doing!
By the way - I should probably tell everyone I was at mine and SteveR750's local shop - Audio T in Cardiff.
Who wants a HiFi that has to be switched on for hours before it sounds right. Great writeup James.
John Duncan
Well-known member
- Jan 8, 2008
- 2,034
- 30
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igglebert:Who wants a HiFi that has to be switched on for hours before it sounds right.
Doesn't someone say somewhere else that SA1s need 100 hours?
Doesn't someone say somewhere else that SA1s need 100 hours?
To break in from new apparently. Never noticed a change myself, sounded great out of the box. Any changes were masked by how I became accustomed to their sound.
jockey.wilson:
There is no black and white in Hi-Fi...
I have always thought that Naim and Cyrus polarised opinion when it comes to sound quality. FWIW, I have found Naim kit takes ages to come on song (even more so than Cyrus). Maybe the dealer hadn't had the XS switched on for long enough?
Certainly the chap at Music Matters had warmed up the Naim kit I listened to: all were plugged in and ready to go - he had actually told me he would ensure they were on and warned up in advance of me auditioning them.
There is no black and white in Hi-Fi...
I have always thought that Naim and Cyrus polarised opinion when it comes to sound quality. FWIW, I have found Naim kit takes ages to come on song (even more so than Cyrus). Maybe the dealer hadn't had the XS switched on for long enough?
Certainly the chap at Music Matters had warmed up the Naim kit I listened to: all were plugged in and ready to go - he had actually told me he would ensure they were on and warned up in advance of me auditioning them.
JamesOK: Although there was certainly an improvement over the Nait 5i and CD5i it took me little more than 10 minutes to realise its just the Naim sound I don't like!
Hi James,
was it a full Naim XS chain (CD5 XS + NAIT XS + FlatCap XS + Naim cables) or just the amplifier?
Hi James,
was it a full Naim XS chain (CD5 XS + NAIT XS + FlatCap XS + Naim cables) or just the amplifier?
igglebert:To break in from new apparently. Never noticed a change myself, sounded great out of the box. Any changes were masked by how I became accustomed to their sound.
The 100 hours break-in guideline came from a review of the SA1s in US hifi mag The Absolute Sound.
http://www.avguide.com/review/tas-195-spendor-sa1-mini-monitor?page=1
Here's the relevant extract from the review:
"Since I had been told that they would need some serious break-in time to sound optimal I was not overly concerned about their lack of immediate star power. According to Philip Swift, "The actual break-in period for the SA1 depends to a large extent on how loud and long you play the speakers. If you have the opportunity to let loose for many hours with a sensibly powerful amplifier and a broad selection of dynamic, wide-frequency-range program the speakers can be sounding good within a day or two. But if you play more modestly and less frequently it can take as long as 2-3 weeks for the loudspeakers to reach optimum performance. Another factor is temperature, if your loudspeakers have been recently been shipped or stored in low temperatures they may sound a bit 'flat' for the first few playing hours." After approximately 100 hours of break-in I began listening in earnest''.
The 100 hours break-in guideline came from a review of the SA1s in US hifi mag The Absolute Sound.
http://www.avguide.com/review/tas-195-spendor-sa1-mini-monitor?page=1
Here's the relevant extract from the review:
"Since I had been told that they would need some serious break-in time to sound optimal I was not overly concerned about their lack of immediate star power. According to Philip Swift, "The actual break-in period for the SA1 depends to a large extent on how loud and long you play the speakers. If you have the opportunity to let loose for many hours with a sensibly powerful amplifier and a broad selection of dynamic, wide-frequency-range program the speakers can be sounding good within a day or two. But if you play more modestly and less frequently it can take as long as 2-3 weeks for the loudspeakers to reach optimum performance. Another factor is temperature, if your loudspeakers have been recently been shipped or stored in low temperatures they may sound a bit 'flat' for the first few playing hours." After approximately 100 hours of break-in I began listening in earnest''.
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