RIAA amplifier or not?

[Albron]

I wonder whether it is worth getting a separate RIAA amplifier, and what would be the benefit.

My equipment: Turntable Thorens TD280 Exclusiv with Audio-Technica AT150MLX MM-cartridge. Connected to phono in on Yamaha RX-A 2030 receiver, and Canton Reference 3.2 DC loudspeakers.

I can buy a 2-month-old Thorens MM008 RIAA for 90£, but is it going to give me any significant “improvement”?

 

[Al ears]

I wonder whether it is worth getting a separate RIAA amplifier, and what would be the benefit.

My equipment: Turntable Thorens TD280 Exclusiv with Audio-Technica AT150MLX MM-cartridge. Connected to phono in on Yamaha RX-A 2030 receiver, and Canton Reference 3.2 DC loudspeakers.

I can buy a 2-month-old Thorens MM008 RIAA for 90£, but is it going to give me any significant “improvement”?

It's probably going to be an improvement on the phono stage in that receiver however whether it will be a "significant" improvement only you could say .
Personally I would go for it as they are £300 new and will allow you to go down the Moving Coil route should you want to.
See review here:

https://www.hifinews.com/content/thorens-mm-008-phono-preamplifier

 

[Albron]

Yes, I know, but then the question is if my turntable is good enough for a Moving Coil? It is a quite "basic" Thorens from 80th. And then perhaps a new amplifier? (instead of the Yamaha). And so it ends in £££. That's why I wonder if my current system would gain from this minor upgrade. 90£ is of course not much....

 

[Al ears]

Yes, I know, but then the question is if my turntable is good enough for a Moving Coil? It is a quite "basic" Thorens from 80th. And then perhaps a new amplifier? (instead of the Yamaha). And so it ends in £££. That's why I wonder if my current system would gain from this minor upgrade. 90£ is of course not much....

As I said, the Thorens is probably better than the phono stage in the receiver even if you stick with cartridge you have.
Cannot say how much of an improvement it will be, only you can do that.
New vinyl isn't cheap so entirely up to you whether you think the outlay will be worth it to you.
Any doubt just stick with what you have.

 

[nopiano]

At that price it’s well worth the investment. If you don’t enjoy it, then resale should be easy, so literally nothing to lose.

Many folk seem to like a dedicated stage as often the gain is a bit higher, and that often feels better, as though the amp is working with less effort.

Moot point about actually choosing a MC, because on the one hand you can get them for around £300 upwards, yet on the other, the latest MMs like the Nagaoka MP-700 are superb and cost over £1,000.

 

[Albron]

Now we are perhaps coming slightly off-topic, but I don’t really understand why I should get rid of my excellent Audio-Technica MM-cartridge, that sells on eBay used for 300£ and new for 750£, only to get a basic MC-cartridge?

 

[RoA]

Not sure if anyone suggested you should do so. Most comments were with regards to your phono stage question, the result of which, until you tried it (as has been suggested) few will probably know. It does open up new possibilities but it'll cost.

Going by comments on the winernet though I agree with you that a cheap MC is unlikely to better a good MM. Different perhaps and with the added cost of a phono pre-amp.

 

[Al ears]

Now we are perhaps coming slightly off-topic, but I don’t really understand why I should get rid of my excellent Audio-Technica MM-cartridge, that sells on eBay used for 300£ and new for 750£, only to get a basic MC-cartridge?

You don't, perhaps you missed the point.
With your current set-up you have no facility to use a decent MC cartridge.
With the Thorens preamp you would gain this facility.
I wasn't implying you had to get an MC cartridge simply that you could if you decided to upgrade in the future.....
Anyway, back to the question as was..........

 

[Al ears]

Not sure if anyone suggested you should do so. Most comments were with regards to your phono stage question, the result of which, until you tried it (as has been suggested) few will probably know. It does open up new possibilities but it'll cost.

Going by comments on the winernet though I agree with you that a cheap MC is unlikely to better a good MM. Different perhaps and with the added cost of a phono pre-amp.

Agreed.
Nothing worse than a cheap MC cartridge with its added expense.
Going down the MC route is best avoided unless you have a healthy bank balance.

 

[Albron]

Agreed.
Nothing worse than a cheap MC cartridge with its added expense.
Going down the MC route is best avoided unless you have a healthy bank balance.

I know, I got your messages perfectly all right, thanks. But it was someone else who suggested that you can buy a MC cartridge for 300£, and I just could not get the point, when looking on my current setup.

 

[Al ears]

I know, I got your messages perfectly all right, thanks. But it was someone else who suggested that you can buy a MC cartridge for 300£, and I just could not get the point, when looking on my current setup.

I don't think @nopiano was actually implying you should get one for £300, he was simply stating a fact.

 

[good_enough]

I know, I got your messages perfectly all right, thanks. But it was someone else who suggested that you can buy a MC cartridge for 300£, and I just could not get the point, when looking on my current setup.

Cartridges are a matter of taste and if you're happy with what you've got why change it? I'm happy with my Hana SH and I ain't going to change that.

The way you phrased the original question was a bit odd - all phono pre-amps. whether internal or separate, should re-equalise the RIAA curve, so any phono stage should be a 'RIAA' phono stage - the wording seemed to imply you had something with a non-RIAA curve like one of the old proprietary curves from the bakelite days. That's a very niche area!

 

[Albron]

Cartridges are a matter of taste and if you're happy with what you've got why change it? I'm happy with my Hana SH and I ain't going to change that.

The way you phrased the original question was a bit odd - all phono pre-amps. whether internal or separate, should re-equalise the RIAA curve, so any phono stage should be a 'RIAA' phono stage - the wording seemed to imply you had something with a non-RIAA curve like one of the old proprietary curves from the bakelite days. That's a very niche area!

Please excuse the confusion, but I am not a native English speaker, trying to do my best. I still believe from the answers so far, that most of you got my question all right🙂.

 

[nopiano]

I know, I got your messages perfectly all right, thanks. But it was someone else who suggested that you can buy a MC cartridge for 300£, and I just could not get the point, when looking on my current setup.

That was me, and I was only trying to illustrate the range of prices for each type. That’s why is said it was a moot point!

I’d definitely not recommend getting a cheap MC, especially as a permanent change. Bear in mind that some folk nevertheless like to dabble with different models, though again that wasn’t my point.

However, I would recommend the Thorens phono stage, which I trust I made clear?

 

[good_enough]

Please excuse the confusion, but I am not a native English speaker, trying to do my best. I still believe from the answers so far, that most of you got my question all right🙂.

Your English seems very good - better I'm sure than I know another language!

 

[Al ears]

Cartridges are a matter of taste and if you're happy with what you've got why change it? I'm happy with my Hana SH and I ain't going to change that.

The way you phrased the original question was a bit odd - all phono pre-amps. whether internal or separate, should re-equalise the RIAA curve, so any phono stage should be a 'RIAA' phono stage - the wording seemed to imply you had something with a non-RIAA curve like one of the old proprietary curves from the bakelite days. That's a very niche area!

True. However there are phono preamps out there that do cater for equalisation other than RIAA, however not the particular Thorens he was asking about.
And that is specifically what he was asking about so no reason to suggest he has anything otherwise.

 

[good_enough]

True. However there are phono preamps out there that do cater for equalisation other than RIAA, however not the particular Thorens he was asking about.
And that is specifically what he was asking about so no reason to suggest he has anything otherwise.

Err.. the relevant bit of kit in the original question would have been the Yamaha RX-A 2030. Which i take it also has an RIAA phono stage. I was more commenting on the headline subject, which i take it would more felicitously have been expressed as 'do i need to invest in a separate phono pre-amp?'

However the OP has made clear the language-wrangling involved.

 

[Gray]

If he could stretch the budget slightly from £90 to £68,500, this could be an option:

Nagra HD Phono phono preamp

www.hifinews.com

 

[Albron]

Err.. the relevant bit of kit in the original question would have been the Yamaha RX-A 2030. Which i take it also has an RIAA phono stage. I was more commenting on the headline subject, which i take it would more felicitously have been expressed as 'do i need to invest in a separate phono pre-amp?'

However the OP has made clear the language-wrangling involved.

Well, we can argue on the wording in my headline, for sure. However, “do I need to invest in a separate phono pre-amp?” has a very short answer “NO”. I don’t need to. My Thorens turntable has been connected to various amplifiers and receivers’ phono stage during the 40+ years in my possession. Perhaps the most correct wording would be “will I benefit from improved sound quality, clarity and spatial resolution, if I invest in a separate RIAA stage in price range 200-300£, instead of utilising the build-in phono stage in my Yamaha amplifier”. But that is slightly long, and obviously most of you understood my question all right anyway 😉.

 

[Albron]

If he could stretch the budget slightly from £90 to £68,500, this could be an option:

Nagra HD Phono phono preamp

www.hifinews.com

Can I stretch the budget? Yes, I can for sure, no problems! Would I go for the one suggested? No, I would not, and I am probably not the only one. And the reason is quite obvious - the other equipment in my set-up would need an upgrade as well, to benefit from that minor investment 😎.

 

[Al ears]

If he could stretch the budget slightly from £90 to £68,500, this could be an option:

Nagra HD Phono phono preamp

www.hifinews.com

Only £68,500?
I am surprised..........
That they actually sell any. 🙂