Very early this year when demoing speakers around January time I asked if they could turn on the sub to see what it's like for films. Watching man of steel at Superfi using the Dali sub e-12f and it wowed me. Was about 6 feet away from the sub and it changed the film completely. Explosions were better and low effects and also the air blowing against my leg which I can really feel was a bit weird but I liked it. Now that I've got a ikon sub mk2 at home it has never done that. Sure it has good bass and can shake the room but it has never seemed to do what the demo sub did back then and make me feel the bass, I feel the sofa occasionally get some vibrations and the floor but never my body which concerts and IMAX cinemas do. The sub is in the corner and I sit right next to it during films most of the time as I can hear the bass best at that position so I know if it's too loud. My sub is set to 65% gain and +0 on my receiver. Set the crossover of speakers to 100hz. What am I doing wrong? I thought my cinema would be better than cineworld in a way. But it's only alright and I've spent a bit over £2k on it!
Demo subwoofer did what I have never experienced at home?
- Thread starter nugget2014
- Start date
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Presuming it is set up correctly, room placement can be make or break. Have you tried it in another part of the room?
David@FrankHarvey said:
first place was at front of the room near my whole system but was bit of an eye sore as I'm in a medium size flat living room. Only had space to try the second spot which is in an alcove corner at back near the sofas . There is definitely more bass output in the corner compared to at the front as there are walls next to it reinforcing. I could try moving it into the very back corner which is only about a foot away. It's hard to explain as you can't see my room. (That's if my cable will even allow me to move it there)
bigboss
Moderator
macdiddy
Well-known member
Hi nugget2014.
Try setting the crossover of your speakers to 80hz if your amp allows it, it may make a difference or may not, also check the settings on the back of the sub, is the Crossover Frequency set correctly, do you have the Phase Switch on or off.
In my opinion, I think you are sitting two close to your sub to get the best out of it, after all most if not all commercial cinema's position their subs at the front of the auditorium and you said yourself that the sub they had on demo was about six foot away from where you were sitting.
Hope this gives you some ideas.
Try setting the crossover of your speakers to 80hz if your amp allows it, it may make a difference or may not, also check the settings on the back of the sub, is the Crossover Frequency set correctly, do you have the Phase Switch on or off.
In my opinion, I think you are sitting two close to your sub to get the best out of it, after all most if not all commercial cinema's position their subs at the front of the auditorium and you said yourself that the sub they had on demo was about six foot away from where you were sitting.
Hope this gives you some ideas.
macdiddy said:
phase is normal, set to 0. the crossover is set to max which allows my avr to control the crossover. i'll change it to 80 tomorrow then. i havent got space to put it at the front as my living room is an awkward shape its either a couple feet in front of the tv at the side or where it is now. i'll try moving it to the other corner sometime next week by rearranging some furniture, and if it sounds better then keep it there!
Interesting.
Once you've tried the crossover at 80Hz try it at 120Hz or the max.
The higher the cross over the more the sub will pick up. Like the lower midrange.
Then dial up the volume with your fav movie.
The room probably helped bet there was no furniture to absorb sound.
Once you've tried the crossover at 80Hz try it at 120Hz or the max.
The higher the cross over the more the sub will pick up. Like the lower midrange.
Then dial up the volume with your fav movie.
The room probably helped bet there was no furniture to absorb sound.
Sounds to me like your suffering from Model/modal (not sure if i have spelt that right) issues i have the same problem as most people do esentailly your room is sucking out the base. I have a stair case in my room and all the base goes up there.
Really the only way to cure the problem is to move the subwoofer arond. Or put it on a sofa and walking around the room till you hear the bass at it best. Failing that put it right next to sofa neafield placement. But remember a good subwoofer you should never know its on. Maybe the one in shop just wasnt setup right being turned up fare to high for impact. It heps sell them. Which is often the case especailly if its on the shop floor and not in a listening room.
Many factours play a role in subwoofer setup and thats why they are differecult to set up for some others are just very lucky and dont have to do much.... Remember to re-do the eq each time you move it and dont treat the eq as given just a starting point.
Really the only way to cure the problem is to move the subwoofer arond. Or put it on a sofa and walking around the room till you hear the bass at it best. Failing that put it right next to sofa neafield placement. But remember a good subwoofer you should never know its on. Maybe the one in shop just wasnt setup right being turned up fare to high for impact. It heps sell them. Which is often the case especailly if its on the shop floor and not in a listening room.
Many factours play a role in subwoofer setup and thats why they are differecult to set up for some others are just very lucky and dont have to do much.... Remember to re-do the eq each time you move it and dont treat the eq as given just a starting point.
I keep saying it over and over but honestly you need to measure to know for sure - you cant trust your ears with bass, its too difficult.
I am just starting a little explanation in another thread that might help you out - but for a lot more info you want to read up on REW on home theatre shack - its free software
I am just starting a little explanation in another thread that might help you out - but for a lot more info you want to read up on REW on home theatre shack - its free software
I'll eq the sub again since I moved it. What sound mode should I have for auto cal eq? I used to use engineer. Now it's on off. I could choose full flat or reference fronts too.
What i would do is set it without the eq first deleting anything that may have been done in the past (if you can) then just move bits around till you can hear yourself that its getting better and you can hear it trust me. Give yourself time to acclimatize to each new setup/placment. Rememeber to adjust the levels and distances accordanly each time manually. Other wise its a bit of a faff doing the auto setup each time and it will irrutate you after a while.
As a starting point set your crossovers at 80hz (its a starting point not a rule) if your amp has another setting (i think its called) LPF of LFE that should be set at 120hz i had to do that on my onkyo and that made a marked difference. Note not all amps have that feature and really shouldn't.
Then just play all you can really without pulling out verious bits of software to begin with. It will take time but you will get there.
Like i say place that sub on the sofa you will hear the differences as you walk around the room and where it sounds the loudest/best try it there. If the wife agrees
Give it ago over the next few days and report back if your still having problems. If you dont have a sound meter your goin to need one or you will be in the dark. You can download one to your phone but they're not as good as the standalone ones. You can get them from maplin.
As a starting point set your crossovers at 80hz (its a starting point not a rule) if your amp has another setting (i think its called) LPF of LFE that should be set at 120hz i had to do that on my onkyo and that made a marked difference. Note not all amps have that feature and really shouldn't.
Then just play all you can really without pulling out verious bits of software to begin with. It will take time but you will get there.
Like i say place that sub on the sofa you will hear the differences as you walk around the room and where it sounds the loudest/best try it there. If the wife agrees
Give it ago over the next few days and report back if your still having problems. If you dont have a sound meter your goin to need one or you will be in the dark. You can download one to your phone but they're not as good as the standalone ones. You can get them from maplin.
Its fine but the software has huge lerning curve and if you dont know what your doing it can be very daunting. And alot of things need to done and tried first that are alot more simple . To be honest It sounds like you/we may also be talking with someone that dosnt even own sound meter (no offense nugget ). So one step at a time.
It may be the simple fact that amps auto feature has set the sub to soft and just needs to be turned up. But as with all things we are not there so the best thing to do is to guide him through the process that we have all been through. The simple stuff first to see if he gets an improvement then we can measure to see if its the absolute best.
Also the software is not mac ( and he maybe) based are fare as im aware and its not free you have to buy a mic to go with it so £15 at least and you have to have certain amount of posts on another forum to gain acsess (that was the case the last time i looked so may have changed so maybe completly wrong)
It may be the simple fact that amps auto feature has set the sub to soft and just needs to be turned up. But as with all things we are not there so the best thing to do is to guide him through the process that we have all been through. The simple stuff first to see if he gets an improvement then we can measure to see if its the absolute best.
Also the software is not mac ( and he maybe) based are fare as im aware and its not free you have to buy a mic to go with it so £15 at least and you have to have certain amount of posts on another forum to gain acsess (that was the case the last time i looked so may have changed so maybe completly wrong)
Oh i fortgot to mention when you eq use the flat mode. It will be very different to what your use to though so give it time.
Also do you leave your dynamic eq on?
Also do you leave your dynamic eq on?
Ok so..
dynamic eq, what's that? I use the EQ on deezer to boost the bass if that's what you mean.
i own a sound meter but think it needs a new battery soon. I'll auto calibrate again later and set eq to flat. Do I need to do individual test tones for the sub and set it to a level? The tones are confusing though as to get decent volume level I would have to turn volume of receiver up loads past what I normally listen at. And what do you mean by software? I use the Sony str-dn1040 av receiver
dynamic eq, what's that? I use the EQ on deezer to boost the bass if that's what you mean.
i own a sound meter but think it needs a new battery soon. I'll auto calibrate again later and set eq to flat. Do I need to do individual test tones for the sub and set it to a level? The tones are confusing though as to get decent volume level I would have to turn volume of receiver up loads past what I normally listen at. And what do you mean by software? I use the Sony str-dn1040 av receiver
Ah i didnt relise you had a sony forget the Dynamic eq question its dosnt apply to your amp. The test tone should come through at ref levels no need to turn the volume up. The sony should work like that.
Here is a hand video on how to set it up. I know its not the same as you amp but it pretty much the same as all over amps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_dCc716B8o
give it a look. Channel level segment is at the end of the vid time code 6.46mins
Here is a hand video on how to set it up. I know its not the same as you amp but it pretty much the same as all over amps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_dCc716B8o
give it a look. Channel level segment is at the end of the vid time code 6.46mins
think theres a slight diference in the bass after running EQ again and setting it to flat. will know for sure when play music on it sometime this week. now wishing i had bought a bk monolith..
read all these comments and reviews about bass on certain films and when i watch the film the bass is not what i read! maybe those people have high end £750+ subs, maybe its a deal breaker that my sub only plays down to around 20hz (with little power down there) unlike the mono that goes down to 15 and has a better amp. edge of tomorrow, the amazing spider-man 2 and incredible hulk all have "amazing bass" but dont sound that great on my sub..
read all these comments and reviews about bass on certain films and when i watch the film the bass is not what i read! maybe those people have high end £750+ subs, maybe its a deal breaker that my sub only plays down to around 20hz (with little power down there) unlike the mono that goes down to 15 and has a better amp. edge of tomorrow, the amazing spider-man 2 and incredible hulk all have "amazing bass" but dont sound that great on my sub..
Mate if your not getting bass out this sub you wouldn't have got bass from the monolith it would be exactly the same. Unless the subwoofer is broken or something? dose it actually output any sound?
Some trouble shooting tips
Turn all the EQ off and set it manually buy moving around at the front. Shove it in a corner and see if that can excite the room.
Is it being set to low in the by the amp? -12 in levels is bad! if so turn down the sub so the amp can turn the level up. You should be aiming for a range -3 to +3.
Your speakers could be canceling out the subwooder. Try playing with the phase on the back of the subwoofer.
When you walk round the room dose bass become stronger in certain spots? and dose it dissapear at the sweet spo (where you sit)? if so the sub will defo needs to moved but without seeing your room it will be hard for people to help and even then it will be hit and miss as we dont know how your room reacts.
be pateint and dont get dishartened you will get there it can take a bit of time.
Could you upload a little pic of you room a simple line sketch will do?
Some trouble shooting tips
Turn all the EQ off and set it manually buy moving around at the front. Shove it in a corner and see if that can excite the room.
Is it being set to low in the by the amp? -12 in levels is bad! if so turn down the sub so the amp can turn the level up. You should be aiming for a range -3 to +3.
Your speakers could be canceling out the subwooder. Try playing with the phase on the back of the subwoofer.
When you walk round the room dose bass become stronger in certain spots? and dose it dissapear at the sweet spo (where you sit)? if so the sub will defo needs to moved but without seeing your room it will be hard for people to help and even then it will be hit and miss as we dont know how your room reacts.
be pateint and dont get dishartened you will get there it can take a bit of time.
Could you upload a little pic of you room a simple line sketch will do?
bigboss
Moderator
Make sure you've set your speakers to "small" on the AV receiver, so that the lower frequencies are sent to the subwoofer.
millennia_one said:
not broken. Will try uploading a photo of the room. The sub is 70% gain and +6db on the amp. It used to be +0 but I'm now using afd auto instead of hd-dcs as half way through the film the sound setting would revert back to afd auto and the bass would be affected so I just changed the levels of afd auto so it works just as well.
Here are the pictures of the living room. Notice the sub is in the corner next to chair.
http://imgur.com/OZEAQ5Uhttp://imgur.com/HMwnctGhttp://imgur.com/ND90d7M
http://imgur.com/OZEAQ5Uhttp://imgur.com/HMwnctGhttp://imgur.com/ND90d7M
bigboss
Moderator
They all work. Where is that sub in realtion to the fronts? Im guessing that is at the back of the room where you sit. If so im suprrised its not giving you any substaince. Any sub that close would be shaking your world dosen't matter how big it is. If that is where you sit that is?
I would say try and put it at the front on the right side it looks as though you have enough room in the picture But there maybe somthing we are not seeing.
I would say try and put it at the front on the right side it looks as though you have enough room in the picture But there maybe somthing we are not seeing.
The included subwoofer plug does not reach far enough for me to have it at front to the right. Plus I dont think there will be enough space. In bit of a dilemma and yeah it's at back in corner. The fronts are about 13ft in front of me
When you say plug you mean mains plug?
In that placement it should be shaking the sofa but it can muffle the mid tones (35 and up) and make them sound weak and that is where a lot of impact is (i know this as i used a nearfiled placement once). you need to move it into more open space away from the sofa which could be acting like a big sponge at the moment, just to be sure! a few inches here and there make a big difference. Doing that might give you alot more volume. Not depth volume. Only you know what space you have so move it as close as you can to the fronts. You have a rectangle-ish room so should be some what good.
As for the plug just buy a bigger/longer exstension lead for now (a realed one) from a hardware store, should be able to get a cheap one for 5-10
see how you get on..
But remeber that subwoofer is never going to shift air the way a ported subwoofer is going to. Try all the steps and if you really still get no joy trade it in a get a ported subwoofer. The SVS pb1000 should be a direct swap with money you get from it and i have heard for the money its a stunner. You really dont have the room for a BK monolith its massive.
But try everything before you spend more money.
But i think you maybe expecting to much from it, as i have said before the store may have had it turned way up for maxium impact to help sell it. Its an old dirty trick. Also not all films shake the house and there are only a handfull of moments when you will feel in your chest bass the reviews that pass on films as saying "this sequence is deep" can be exagerated.
Take the Super 8 train seqence for example its loud for sure with massive crashing moments but the depth is really only at the begining of the seqence when the train is aproching and when exsplosions are going off 2-3 secounds of real deep stuff and i mean deep sub 20hz. The rest sounds like its more in the 25-30hz region for impact which your sub should able to do nicely.
Films are mixed to be balenced! for a good subwoofer thats been set up right you should never really be able to know it's on till you turn it off , it should never draw attention to its self. You should never be able to hear where the bass is coming from. Ill take that any day over chest crushing "Gary boy" bass as i call it.
I think you have a good balance from what i have been reading i just think you need to move it a round abit to find the happy in between part. Solid Bass with balance. I could be wrong and im happy to be proven wrong.
ellisdj has recently moved from a sub around the same size as yours to a massive SVS. from what i have read he a has only gained more DB's and a flatter response but no more real depth maybe a few hz but he was more worried about impact at 25-30hz he was well aware that his subs would never devel to the depths of SVS ported subs but he favours sealed units. Maybe he can give you some insights as well if he is reading.
But never the less set it manually first and the EQ if you wish. EQing could be doing more harm than good at the moment. Get to know the setup first and make sure you are getting a proper tone from it in the levels. a bitt ramably sorry.
In that placement it should be shaking the sofa but it can muffle the mid tones (35 and up) and make them sound weak and that is where a lot of impact is (i know this as i used a nearfiled placement once). you need to move it into more open space away from the sofa which could be acting like a big sponge at the moment, just to be sure! a few inches here and there make a big difference. Doing that might give you alot more volume. Not depth volume. Only you know what space you have so move it as close as you can to the fronts. You have a rectangle-ish room so should be some what good.
As for the plug just buy a bigger/longer exstension lead for now (a realed one) from a hardware store, should be able to get a cheap one for 5-10
see how you get on..
But remeber that subwoofer is never going to shift air the way a ported subwoofer is going to. Try all the steps and if you really still get no joy trade it in a get a ported subwoofer. The SVS pb1000 should be a direct swap with money you get from it and i have heard for the money its a stunner. You really dont have the room for a BK monolith its massive.
But try everything before you spend more money.
But i think you maybe expecting to much from it, as i have said before the store may have had it turned way up for maxium impact to help sell it. Its an old dirty trick. Also not all films shake the house and there are only a handfull of moments when you will feel in your chest bass the reviews that pass on films as saying "this sequence is deep" can be exagerated.
Take the Super 8 train seqence for example its loud for sure with massive crashing moments but the depth is really only at the begining of the seqence when the train is aproching and when exsplosions are going off 2-3 secounds of real deep stuff and i mean deep sub 20hz. The rest sounds like its more in the 25-30hz region for impact which your sub should able to do nicely.
Films are mixed to be balenced! for a good subwoofer thats been set up right you should never really be able to know it's on till you turn it off , it should never draw attention to its self. You should never be able to hear where the bass is coming from. Ill take that any day over chest crushing "Gary boy" bass as i call it.
I think you have a good balance from what i have been reading i just think you need to move it a round abit to find the happy in between part. Solid Bass with balance. I could be wrong and im happy to be proven wrong.
ellisdj has recently moved from a sub around the same size as yours to a massive SVS. from what i have read he a has only gained more DB's and a flatter response but no more real depth maybe a few hz but he was more worried about impact at 25-30hz he was well aware that his subs would never devel to the depths of SVS ported subs but he favours sealed units. Maybe he can give you some insights as well if he is reading.
But never the less set it manually first and the EQ if you wish. EQing could be doing more harm than good at the moment. Get to know the setup first and make sure you are getting a proper tone from it in the levels. a bitt ramably sorry.
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