In a recent post, DougK mentioned playing at 75 dB and smbmetal said a little quiet at 85-90. I normally play stereo at minus 35 dB and if I want to crank up a bit go to minus 30 dB. Any idea how the two forms of measurement relate please?
Decibels!
- Thread starter Samd
- Start date
I use an SPL meter at my listening position to measure the level. I'm guessing you are referring to the readout on your amp?
smbmetal
Well-known member
As DougK has said above, I (and he) are measuring the output of the actual speakers in dB. My phone usually says (when not playing vinyl) 95 - 100 dB. My amp is turned to -7dB (on it's display) to output that level. The amp scale will differ on a per amp basis depending on the power rating of your amp and your speakers impedance etc.
I meant, regardless of where measured, how do I equate a scale (mine) which goes louder the more it moves into increasing minus figures, with yours which does the opposite. smbmetal has given insight but just do not understand why so many differing approaches - loads of others talk together about getting volume control up at 10 o'clock - meaningless - but fellow contributors seem to understand and try and better his figures!
smbmetal
Well-known member
Trying to understand.....
You say that you listen at -35dB? If you want it louder you go to -30dB? All on your amp display yes?
If so that's what mine does except my amp is usually at -20dB for background TV etc and when I crank it up it goes to -7dB.
If I want to be more traditional I change the volume scale from 0 -100 but I prefer the minus dB scale.
10' O Clock would be a volume with no read out just an indicator. I used to listen to my Rotels around 11' O Clock as there was no digital scale.
You say that you listen at -35dB? If you want it louder you go to -30dB? All on your amp display yes?
If so that's what mine does except my amp is usually at -20dB for background TV etc and when I crank it up it goes to -7dB.
If I want to be more traditional I change the volume scale from 0 -100 but I prefer the minus dB scale.
10' O Clock would be a volume with no read out just an indicator. I used to listen to my Rotels around 11' O Clock as there was no digital scale.
Gray
Well-known member
smbmetal
Well-known member
Exactly the dB reading on the amp is totally different to what dB is actually coming out of my speakers.
Al ears
Well-known member
Correct, amp output indicators are incredibly unrealistic and misleading.
You have to factor in the speakers being driven.
A decent meter is the only way to record this.
chris661
Well-known member
In fairness, most smartphones have half-decent microphones in them, and are usually somewhere near accurate for casual measurements.
In theory, an amp set to -30dB should be running 30dB below its maximum power output.
However, that only works when using a digital input, where 0dBFS is reached regularly.
For an analogue input, the signals coming in may vary quite widely, so there's not much saying what power levels you're actually running at.
Chris
In theory, an amp set to -30dB should be running 30dB below its maximum power output.
However, that only works when using a digital input, where 0dBFS is reached regularly.
For an analogue input, the signals coming in may vary quite widely, so there's not much saying what power levels you're actually running at.
Chris
Jimboo
Well-known member
My ears say: 65dB nice and mellow, 75dB opening up and starting to sing nicely, 85dB that's gettin' a bit loud, 90+dB this is f****** stupid loud and I value my hearing.
I have the luxury that my little PMC's sound quite decent at low volumes, but can get rather unruly at high volumes due to placement restrictions of a working lounge... plus there's always the neighbours to consider.
The position of my volume dial will be very dependent on the DR value of the CD I am playing, I prefer something in the DR10+ range, hence why I loathe remastered and CDs from about 1995 on.
Jimboo
Well-known member
daytona600
Well-known member
decibels double power output of a amplifier will give 3db gain
normal box/dynamic speakers are 80-90db output for 1 watt input
horn speakers speakers 90-100 efficiency for 1watt
.
130 artillery fire at close proximity (threshold of pain)
120 amplified rock music; near jet engine
110 loud orchestral music, in audience
100 electric saw
90 bus or truck interior
80 automobile interior
70 average street noise; loud telephone bell
60 normal conversation; business office
50 restaurant; private office
40 quiet room in home
30 quiet lecture hall; bedroom
20 radio, television, or recording studio
10 soundproof room
0 absolute silence (threshold of hearing)
normal box/dynamic speakers are 80-90db output for 1 watt input
horn speakers speakers 90-100 efficiency for 1watt
.
130 artillery fire at close proximity (threshold of pain)
120 amplified rock music; near jet engine
110 loud orchestral music, in audience
100 electric saw
90 bus or truck interior
80 automobile interior
70 average street noise; loud telephone bell
60 normal conversation; business office
50 restaurant; private office
40 quiet room in home
30 quiet lecture hall; bedroom
20 radio, television, or recording studio
10 soundproof room
0 absolute silence (threshold of hearing)
No readout and no volume pot? You need to include your system in your signature so we can see what amp you've got
Gray
Well-known member
I was just about to ask him that Doug.No readout and no volume pot? You need to include your system in your signature so we can see what amp you've got
Gray
Well-known member
I can add one more to the top.
146 Microsuction reacting to debris 1 cm from eardrum (when performed by a non-expert
)
Jimboo
Well-known member
Ah, sorry. I have Kef ls50w speakers. No pot and no readout to look at. I just turn up the remote , click click. There are apps to run it I suppose but they are so poor I don use them.
gasolin
Well-known member
My old phone couldn't measure above 89 db it never showed 90db or above, if im lucky i have for 1 sec reached 90db, if my samsung s10 plus can, i don't know.
My ears say: 65dB nice and mellow, 75dB opening up and starting to sing nicely, 85dB that's gettin' a bit loud, 90+dB this is f****** stupid loud and I value my hearing.
For me 65db is watching a movie at medium level, 80-85 db is loud, 40-50watt is very loud but not so much in the kitchen making some food on the stove, 40 watt is 101db in theory for my system.
BUT look here 95 and 96 db, for the 220 that's 6db or 4 watt since i know they are 89db sensitive, for the 225 it's around 12.5watt since the sensitivity is about 85-86 db, that doesn't make sense, unless they rate max spl in the bass and at what frequency?
www.wharfedale.co.uk
www.wharfedale.co.uk
If playing really loud with no distortion at all, like 100 watt and you have a 1000 watt, there will be no distortion from the amp and you might not think it's that loud because of the absent of distortion.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-_2S-uXchM
90 db shouldn't be any problems at all since 5 db is 3 watt (85 db speakers), but i guess some of us turn the volume much more up than 3 or 5 or 7 watt, even if you have more than 85db sensitive speakers.
Bass needs alot more than 10 watt's for it to be deep, loud and punchy with no distortion, when playing loud and when you want it to be a very clean and distortion free sound at any level from low to party level you need as much as power as you can afford without exaggerate, who buy's a 500 watt amp if you have speakers like harbeth p3esr.
Try watching the first video and see what you think of it
Atm im playing Stevie Ray Vaughan - Life Without You - 9/21/1985 - Capitol Theatre, Passaic, NJ at less than 70 db where im sitting and it's fine,atm i don't need more, when i play edm in the day time i might need or play 85 db, that should be 1 watt, but why do we need more than 4 watt (in my case 91 db) some even use 100 watt pr channel (volume the play at when listening to music) when having 87-90 db speaker = 107-110 db.
i'll bet you won't be happy with a very low powered less than 10 watt pr channel tube amp even if it can play 90 db with your speakers with 85db sensitivity.
It does somehow make a difference having a traditional analog volume knob like on my Marantz PM6006 where you can play at 11 o'clock and a amp like Denon DRA700AE (i just bought on that's why i mentioned it) it has a digital volumeknob, a volume knob where power is indicated in db and where more or less all amps don't play max volume at 0db.
My ears say: 65dB nice and mellow, 75dB opening up and starting to sing nicely, 85dB that's gettin' a bit loud, 90+dB this is f****** stupid loud and I value my hearing.
For me 65db is watching a movie at medium level, 80-85 db is loud, 40-50watt is very loud but not so much in the kitchen making some food on the stove, 40 watt is 101db in theory for my system.
BUT look here 95 and 96 db, for the 220 that's 6db or 4 watt since i know they are 89db sensitive, for the 225 it's around 12.5watt since the sensitivity is about 85-86 db, that doesn't make sense, unless they rate max spl in the bass and at what frequency?
Diamond 220 – WHARFEDALE
www.wharfedale.co.uk
Diamond 225 (Discontinued) – WHARFEDALE
www.wharfedale.co.uk
If playing really loud with no distortion at all, like 100 watt and you have a 1000 watt, there will be no distortion from the amp and you might not think it's that loud because of the absent of distortion.
90 db shouldn't be any problems at all since 5 db is 3 watt (85 db speakers), but i guess some of us turn the volume much more up than 3 or 5 or 7 watt, even if you have more than 85db sensitive speakers.
Bass needs alot more than 10 watt's for it to be deep, loud and punchy with no distortion, when playing loud and when you want it to be a very clean and distortion free sound at any level from low to party level you need as much as power as you can afford without exaggerate, who buy's a 500 watt amp if you have speakers like harbeth p3esr.
Try watching the first video and see what you think of it
Atm im playing Stevie Ray Vaughan - Life Without You - 9/21/1985 - Capitol Theatre, Passaic, NJ at less than 70 db where im sitting and it's fine,atm i don't need more, when i play edm in the day time i might need or play 85 db, that should be 1 watt, but why do we need more than 4 watt (in my case 91 db) some even use 100 watt pr channel (volume the play at when listening to music) when having 87-90 db speaker = 107-110 db.
i'll bet you won't be happy with a very low powered less than 10 watt pr channel tube amp even if it can play 90 db with your speakers with 85db sensitivity.
It does somehow make a difference having a traditional analog volume knob like on my Marantz PM6006 where you can play at 11 o'clock and a amp like Denon DRA700AE (i just bought on that's why i mentioned it) it has a digital volumeknob, a volume knob where power is indicated in db and where more or less all amps don't play max volume at 0db.
chris661
Well-known member
"Stupid loud" is when your vision goes blurry from the bass. It's cool to experience that sort of low-frequency output, but earplugs + defenders are strongly recommended.
Chris
Maybe 90dB was a little low for stupid loud
I work near cargo aircraft in my day job so am fully aware what stupid loud sounds and feels like, ear defenders are supplied of course but you can still feel it physically. Anyway I'm generally happy at 75dB peak in my small lounge.
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Dom
Well-known member
chris661
Well-known member
gasolin
Well-known member
One thing i forgot to mention is to find out the sensitivity, how many watt you for the reference db which is 96db, if you need something like 10 watt multiply it with 10, than you have as a rule of thumb what you should have to get a god dynamic and loud sound.
usually don't fail unless you have a very big room, if small you of course don't have to use all of the power
usually don't fail unless you have a very big room, if small you of course don't have to use all of the power
insider9
Well-known member
I still miss the days with whole band in a rehearsal and everyone getting to turn the wick up as the drummer would smash it. That's why I listen to music loud. 85-95dB - lovely, less than that is a background music to me
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