Dali/Marantz vs Sonos

[hydra1981]

Hi,

First post in the forum as I am trying to make up my mind on what to do next. My current set-up is a set of Dali Zensor 1 speakers driven by a Marantz M-CR510. It is an OK set-up but although the Marantz has its nice features I am not in love with it anymore and I am looking for a bit of a change. I find the user interface on the Marantz in particular and the lack of a decent app rather annoying. Sound wise I find that the system sounds on par with decent all in one $200 desk units but nothing special. Now this is probably due to the low quality of the sources and probably the location of the speakers but I feel the Marantz also has to do with it. By the way nothing wrong with the Marantz in terms of hurt feelings, for the price and the features maybe I shouldn't have been expecting more.

I popped into a PC World here in the UK to see what Sonos has to offer. I cannot by any means judge the sound since there was no dedicated listing area and as you can imagine the whole place was terribly noisy. It seemed to me that all of their products where OK but you have to buy them in pairs otherwise they are like point sources (which of course they are). This makes it rather uneconomical. I would like to consider Sonos for the ability of playing music in sync in other rooms. I tried to do something like this with a system by Creative a few years ago which didn't work that well and it is a lingering desire since then. I almost forked out for a Play 1 for the kitchen and for fiddling around with but I pulled out in the last minute and got back home to think about it a bit more. Looking at the Dali/Marantz combo I am torn between giving them another chance or putting everything on eBay and starting with a single Play 5 as a direct replacement and taking it from there over time.

So here is a list of options.

1. Get a Sonos Connect. This has been ruled out due to the discussions about lag and it might end up being an exercise in throwing good money after bad. For the price of the Connect I don't think the Marantz is THAT good to desperately try to keep him

2. Replace the Marantz with a Sonos Connect:AMP. Other than buying into the ecosystem it will allow me to keep the speakers but will it spice things up? As an amplifier, is it a better replacement?

3. Get rid of both the speakers and the amp and start fresh with a Play 5. Add more Play {1,3,5}s around over time.

4. Replace the M-CR510 with something else alltogether? A PM6005 + Sonos Connect? Again there is the lag issue....

I guess what I don't know is how the sound of the dedicated amp + Zensor 1 compares with Sonos Play 5. I am sure I am not alone in this so any hints are much appreciated. At the end of the day I can always order a Play 5 from Amazon and return it if I am not happy.

Thanks!!

 

[tino]

You may want to look at the Yamana NX-N500 active speaker / streamer which is getting very good reviews. The Yamaha includes everything except the kitchen sink and with MusicCast can be expanded into a multi-zone setup. The control app is supposed to be pretty good too.

 

[The_Lhc]

What lag issue are you referring to? The Sonos line-in has a delay of 70ms but if you're not using the line-in (and you haven't mentioned anything that seems to require it) then it's irrelevant really.

 

[jonathanRD]

Hi hydra - you say your speakers are probably not in the best position - if you are going to spend money on a better system, you need to position the speakers to get the best out of them. Then certainly a dedicated 2 channel amplifier is the best option to build a system to maximise the sound quality - a Sonos Connect amp is likley to work ok with your Dali 1's but if you want better speakers in the future, I would be after a integrated amplifier plus a Connect.

I have a single Sonos Play 1 in my kitchen, most of the time we play a favourite radio station. We simply turn it on and off as required, and it immediately plays the radio station or what it was playing last time it was switched off. For background music and simplicity, it is perfect for a kitchen. I have considered adding a second unit, but I'm not sure we would benefit that much in terms of how we listen in the kitchen. But I can recommend one if your intended use is similar.

 

[hydra1981]

What lag issue are you referring to? The Sonos line-in has a delay of 70ms but if you're not using the line-in (and you haven't mentioned anything that seems to require it) then it's irrelevant really.

There is a discussion about how when you want to stream music across using a Connect attached to a 3rd party amp and speakers and say a Sonos Play X, the processing of the 3rd party amp introduces inevitably a few milliseconds of delay to the sound as it comes out of the 3rd party speakers and therefore it takes the Sonos Play X and the 3rd party amp/speakers out of sync.

 

[The_Lhc]

That generally only applies to AV receivers that apply lots of digital processing to their inputs. It can often be defeated by using a source direct mode or equivalent and shouldn't apply to stereo amps at all.

 

[hydra1981]

That generally only applies to AV receivers that apply lots of digital processing to their inputs. It can often be defeated by using a source direct mode or equivalent and shouldn't apply to stereo amps at all.

Thanks for the clarification! Any views regarding the Dali Zensor 1 vs Sonos Play 5 as speakers?

 

[The_Lhc]

I've never heard the Dalis I'm afraid, audition if you can.

 

[Blackdawn]

In your position i would keep the zensor 1's for now and go down the separate route. The Pioneer A amps seems to work well the Dali's giving a really good musical experience, plenty of excitment but without the fatigue you get with some systems. Other makes such as NAD and Denon also work well with the Dali's. In the end it will come down to what source you want to use. I would be tempted by the Pioneer A30 in combination with the zensors you have and Pioneer N-50A. If you have CDs it would be worth going for a seperate CD player. Don't forget the smaller Dali's give the option of hanging them on the wall, obviously not always the best in terms of sound but better than pushing them into a corner or on the floor if you don't have proper stands.

 

[hydra1981]

In your position i would keep the zensor 1's for now and go down the separate route. The Pioneer A amps seems to work well the Dali's giving a really good musical experience, plenty of excitment but without the fatigue you get with some systems. Other makes such as NAD and Denon also work well with the Dali's. In the end it will come down to what source you want to use. I would be tempted by the Pioneer A30 in combination with the zensors you have and Pioneer N-50A. If you have CDs it would be worth going for a seperate CD player. Don't forget the smaller Dali's give the option of hanging them on the wall, obviously not always the best in terms of sound but better than pushing them into a corner or on the floor if you don't have proper stands.

Thanks for the suggestions! Streaming to other rooms is also a requirement so based on your suggestion I think I should replace the Marantz M-CR510 with another amp and get a Sonos Connect. Looking at the Play 5 I couldn't help but wonder how much of the asking price is speaker capability and how much is the brand, the networking, the design etc. Which is great for an one-off but get multiple of these and there is some unecessary redudancy. Maybe stripping all of these and comparing with the Dali levels the field a bit. If I can get my hands on a Connect from eBay for cheap that would be great, I can then see if I want the buy in to Sonos at all. Any views regarding the Pioneer A-30 versus the Marantz PM6005? The optical in of the Marantz will allow me to plug in the TV as well. Not a major requirement but if it is sort of like for like otherwise then it will be taken into consideration. Otherwise the Pioneer A-30 sounds like a great proposition.

 

[The_Lhc]

Looking at the Play 5 I couldn't help but wonder how much of the asking  price is speaker capability and how much is the brand, the networking, the design etc.

I'm not sure I understand your point, the new play:5 was three years in development, that cost has to be recouped somewhere, it's not just about how much the base components cost.

 

[hydra1981]

Looking at the Play 5 I couldn't help but wonder how much of the asking price is speaker capability and how much is the brand, the networking, the design etc.

I'm not sure I understand your point, the new play:5 was three years in development, that cost has to be recouped somewhere, it's not just about how much the base components cost.

Of course - I am not saying that the price is not fair. All I am saying is if you strip down, conceptually, from the Play 5 all the Sonos specific capabilities and you purely just look at it as a speaker, how does it compare to the Zensor 1 pair i.e. I am trying to make a comparison based on the price, as a proxy, of just the speaker/sound quality without factoring in the wireless and processing technology.

If I didn't have the Zensors and the Marantz already I wouldn't be thinking about it that much. Given that I have them though and re-selling them would probably fetch half the retail price I am just trying to see whether it makes more sense to keep them and just add the Connect (ok, the Marantz will be sold either way).

 

[hydra1981]

I got an e-mail from Spotify about a 20% discount for Play 1/3/5 so I went ahead and bought a 5 before selling my current kit. A side by side comparison is imminent, I will post back my thoughts.

 

[hydra1981]

Not sure if it matters much and by taking into consideration that the Play 5 is brand new and not broken in there is no way it is a match to the pair of Zensors (with the Marantz) sound wise. It is not bad by any means but not in the same league. It is loud and the bass is more pronounced but I prefer the Dalis. It is definitely a keeper for the wifi/sync capabilities.

That said, I enjoy my Sennheiser HD595 more than anything else.

 

[The_Lhc]

How about a pair of them?

 

[hydra1981]

How about a pair of them?

The Play 5 seems to me like a fantastic product but if audio is what you are interested in then for 900 pounds there is more options. The wifi/sync is the killer feature and it should be judged on that basis. So I think the original suggestion that a Connect on an existing setup plus Sonos units around the house is the ideal set-up.

 

[knaithrover]

The 2nd gen Play 5 is a very nice sounding piece of kit. I have one in my kitchen and it is a surprisingly good listen - a very very posh boombox. On its own it isn't a match for a decent budget stereo seperates set up consisting of say a Marantz PM6005 + Q Acoustics 2020 or Concept 20. That said a stereo pair of Play 5's would exceed most budget set ups particularly in low end wallop. Expensive though.

 

[The_Lhc]

I disagree, 900 quid isn't expensive, particularly given you don't need anything else. Most people here will have systems that cost more than that.

 

[The_Lhc]

How about a pair of them?

The Play 5 seems to me like a fantastic product but if audio is what you are interested in then for 900 pounds there is more options.

Well, yes, there's always more options.

The wifi/sync is the killer feature and it should be judged on that basis.

So, you're not going to judge an audio system on what it sounds like then? Interesting idea.

 

[knaithrover]

I disagree, 900 quid isn't expensive, particularly given you don't need anything else. Most people here will have systems that cost more than that.

In that context I agree. I'd rather have £900 worth of seperates though...

 

[hydra1981]

How about a pair of them?

The Play 5 seems to me like a fantastic product but if audio is what you are interested in then for 900 pounds there is more options.

Well, yes, there's always more options.

The wifi/sync is the killer feature and it should be judged on that basis.

So, you're not going to judge an audio system on what it sounds like then? Interesting idea.

I didn't say that, I said one should take into account that what Sonos offers is not just audio but the ability to listen to music across your property without lag. If one doesn't actually need this functionality then Sonos is overshadowed on a dollar basis by other products simply because the money has been spent on audio related tech rather than audio plus IT.

I am very pleased with the Play 5 but it won't replace my main audio system. It will go into the bedroom and a Play 1 is on order for the kitchen.

 

[The_Lhc]

How about a pair of them?

The Play 5 seems to me like a fantastic product but if audio is what you are interested in then for 900 pounds there is more options.

Well, yes, there's always more options.

The wifi/sync is the killer feature and it should be judged on that basis.

So, you're not going to judge an audio system on what it sounds like then? Interesting idea.

I didn't say that, I said one should take into account that what Sonos offers is not just audio but the ability to listen to music across your property without lag. If one doesn't actually need this functionality then Sonos is overshadowed on a dollar basis by other products simply because the money has been spent on audio related tech rather than audio plus IT.

That's an assumption that should only be accepted after a direct listening comparison, anything else is prejudice.

 

[hydra1981]

How about a pair of them?

The Play 5 seems to me like a fantastic product but if audio is what you are interested in then for 900 pounds there is more options.

Well, yes, there's always more options.

The wifi/sync is the killer feature and it should be judged on that basis.

So, you're not going to judge an audio system on what it sounds like then? Interesting idea.

I didn't say that, I said one should take into account that what Sonos offers is not just audio but the ability to listen to music across your property without lag. If one doesn't actually need this functionality then Sonos is overshadowed on a dollar basis by other products simply because the money has been spent on audio related tech rather than audio plus IT.

That's an assumption that should only be accepted after a direct listening comparison, anything else is prejudice.

In any case, I am putting my money were my mouth is and I am keeping both systems since they will be used for different, in terms of functionality, reasons. It doesn't have to be black or white. In the meantime, I was thinking about a Play 1 in the kitchen but for £165 new I could go for a Play 3 instead for the stereo sound which makes me think whether a 1st gen Play 5 would be the better option in the end. The 1st gen Play 5 can be found for the same money as a new Play 3. Decisions...

 

[andyjm]

How about a pair of them?

The Play 5 seems to me like a fantastic product but if audio is what you are interested in then for 900 pounds there is more options.

Well, yes, there's always more options.

The wifi/sync is the killer feature and it should be judged on that basis.

So, you're not going to judge an audio system on what it sounds like then? Interesting idea.

I didn't say that, I said one should take into account that what Sonos offers is not just audio but the ability to listen to music across your property without lag. If one doesn't actually need this functionality then Sonos is overshadowed on a dollar basis by other products simply because the money has been spent on audio related tech rather than audio plus IT.

That's an assumption that should only be accepted after a direct listening comparison, anything else is prejudice.

In any case, I am putting my money were my mouth is and I am keeping both systems since they will be used for different, in terms of functionality, reasons. It doesn't have to be black or white. In the meantime, I was thinking about a Play 1 in the kitchen but for £165 new I could go for a Play 3 instead for the stereo sound which makes me think whether a 1st gen Play 5 would be the better option in the end. The 1st gen Play 5 can be found for the same money as a new Play 3. Decisions...

Play:1 and new gen Play:5 are better engineered products in my opinion than the previous generation of Play:3 and Play:5. I would guess there is a new Play:3 on its way before too long - the new models aren't just new shape boxes, the innards have had a good working over as well.

For its price, I think the Play:1 is actually decent value for money, not something I would have said about Sonos a couple of years back. I would be inclined to buy a couple of Play:1 as a stereo pair - I have done that in a couple of rooms for background music.

 

[andyjm]

I didn't say that, I said one should take into account that what Sonos offers is not just audio but the ability to listen to music across your property without lag. If one doesn't actually need this functionality then Sonos is overshadowed on a dollar basis by other products simply because the money has been spent on audio related tech rather than audio plus IT.

I am very pleased with the Play 5 but it won't replace my main audio system. It will go into the bedroom and a Play 1 is on order for the kitchen.

Hydra,

What's this lag you keep going on about - are you talking about the ability to synchronise a stereo pair with two networked speakers?