Ask the dealer to prove everything he said.
ID is right. Time to go out and audition both speakers and DACs and make up you own mind.
ID is right. Time to go out and audition both speakers and DACs and make up you own mind.
Have to agree with the last couple of posts - though I'd be pushing to try the stuff at home. That's the only real way to tell, but some dealers will permit this.
You're right. Fluffing around too much tends to make me deflated. However, trying to set up something like this will probably take [me] days. Anyway, unless I can sort out my latest [Leema] blip http://community.whathifi.com/forums/t/571492.aspx it'll all be in vain.
Fortuntely, I've gotta busy day.
Fortuntely, I've gotta busy day.
I found the built in dac in the Logitech squeezebox to be 'almost' as good as the Arcam rDac.
If you're thinking of going the DAC route at all, I would highly recommend the squeeezebox.
When funds allow, you can hook it up to whatever DAC you buy. (Say Arcam rDAC or the Rega DAC).
With the Monitor Audio rx6s I had, the Arcam A28 was really the only amplifier that was reserved enough to tame the speaker's brightness. Maybe give that a try?
Here's what I would try out if I were you:
[Any transport] -> Arcam rDac -> Arcam A28 -> Monitor Audio rs6.
If you're thinking of going the DAC route at all, I would highly recommend the squeeezebox.
When funds allow, you can hook it up to whatever DAC you buy. (Say Arcam rDAC or the Rega DAC).
With the Monitor Audio rx6s I had, the Arcam A28 was really the only amplifier that was reserved enough to tame the speaker's brightness. Maybe give that a try?
Here's what I would try out if I were you:
[Any transport] -> Arcam rDac -> Arcam A28 -> Monitor Audio rs6.
MoData:
I found the built in dac in the Logitech squeezebox to be 'almost' as good as the Arcam rDac.
If you're thinking of going the DAC route at all, I would highly recommend the squeeezebox.
When funds allow, you can hook it up to whatever DAC you buy. (Say Arcam rDAC or the Rega DAC).
With the Monitor Audio rx6s I had, the Arcam A28 was really the only amplifier that was reserved enough to tame the speaker's brightness. Maybe give that a try?
Here's what I would try out if I were you:
[Any transport] -> Arcam rDac -> Arcam A28 -> Monitor Audio rs6.
Thanks for the suggestion and all other contributors...
I'm going to be hi-fi free for the next two days. This latest episode has pushed me close to selling the whole lot (all Arcams, Leema, MAs) and just buying a cheapo all-in-one system from Argos. Problems solved.
Thanks again.
I found the built in dac in the Logitech squeezebox to be 'almost' as good as the Arcam rDac.
If you're thinking of going the DAC route at all, I would highly recommend the squeeezebox.
When funds allow, you can hook it up to whatever DAC you buy. (Say Arcam rDAC or the Rega DAC).
With the Monitor Audio rx6s I had, the Arcam A28 was really the only amplifier that was reserved enough to tame the speaker's brightness. Maybe give that a try?
Here's what I would try out if I were you:
[Any transport] -> Arcam rDac -> Arcam A28 -> Monitor Audio rs6.
Thanks for the suggestion and all other contributors...
I'm going to be hi-fi free for the next two days. This latest episode has pushed me close to selling the whole lot (all Arcams, Leema, MAs) and just buying a cheapo all-in-one system from Argos. Problems solved.
Thanks again.
plastic penguin:.....close to selling the whole lot (all Arcams, Leema, MAs) and just buying a cheapo all-in-one system from Argos. Problems solved.
Thanks again.
Well, you could sell the lot and just go for a one box solution.....uniti, uniqute, solo. Then the manufacturer has taken all the hard decisions for you. You either like the single box sound (and buy it) or you don't.
You could even go mad and opt for the ADM9.1T. Then you don't even have to consider the speakers just the digital source.
Thanks again.
Well, you could sell the lot and just go for a one box solution.....uniti, uniqute, solo. Then the manufacturer has taken all the hard decisions for you. You either like the single box sound (and buy it) or you don't.
You could even go mad and opt for the ADM9.1T. Then you don't even have to consider the speakers just the digital source.
PJPro:plastic penguin:.....close to selling the whole lot (all Arcams, Leema, MAs) and just buying a cheapo all-in-one system from Argos. Problems solved.
Thanks again.
Well, you could sell the lot and just go for a one box solution.....uniti, uniqute, solo. Then the manufacturer has taken all the hard decisions for you. You either like the single box sound (and buy it) or you don't. You could even go mad and opt for the ADM9.1T. Then you don't even have to consider the speakers just the digital source.
Certainly worth serious consideration.
Cheers, PJ.
Thanks again.
Well, you could sell the lot and just go for a one box solution.....uniti, uniqute, solo. Then the manufacturer has taken all the hard decisions for you. You either like the single box sound (and buy it) or you don't. You could even go mad and opt for the ADM9.1T. Then you don't even have to consider the speakers just the digital source.
Certainly worth serious consideration.
Cheers, PJ.
jamesrfisher
Well-known member
Have just picked up a Rega Dac, am already impressed. Distinct improvement with AE. Even though out of box and no way near burnt in there is already an improvement with the CD73
jimbofisher:Have just picked up a Rega Dac, am already impressed. Distinct improvement with AE. Even though out of box and no way near burnt in there is already an improvement with the CD73
I've virtually no experience of Rega stuff, please keep us updated and would like a full run-down as the DAC burns in...
I've virtually no experience of Rega stuff, please keep us updated and would like a full run-down as the DAC burns in...
jamesrfisher
Well-known member
Burning in nicely. Even last night the wife was impressed 'even I can hear it sounds better', that was just streaming iTunes.
Have left it streaming overnight. Sounds sharper, warmer, basically takes it all to another level.
Will leave it streaming all day and night and tomorrow start spinning some favourite albums.
Here are a couple of links:
Firstly to someone giving a run down of how he fared http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/669927.html
Secondly for a review http://www.tonepublications.com/ download issue 34 and go to page 200
Have left it streaming overnight. Sounds sharper, warmer, basically takes it all to another level.
Will leave it streaming all day and night and tomorrow start spinning some favourite albums.
Here are a couple of links:
Firstly to someone giving a run down of how he fared http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/669927.html
Secondly for a review http://www.tonepublications.com/ download issue 34 and go to page 200
jamesrfisher
Well-known member
Been left on for over 48 hours now. Playing Cds most of today, al ot of my faves but also different types of music to see.
All very very good. All instruments and vocals are clearer, easier to pick out separate notes. Bass is deeper and tighter. Overall it is warmer (especially previous bright albums like New Order's Technique), long listening periods a pleasure, though CD73 was.
Very very happy with it. Have to say I have always love my TT sound so that does perhaps help.
Perhaps the best thing I can do however is quote my wife 'I like this, you can really hear a difference in a good way'!
All very very good. All instruments and vocals are clearer, easier to pick out separate notes. Bass is deeper and tighter. Overall it is warmer (especially previous bright albums like New Order's Technique), long listening periods a pleasure, though CD73 was.
Very very happy with it. Have to say I have always love my TT sound so that does perhaps help.
Perhaps the best thing I can do however is quote my wife 'I like this, you can really hear a difference in a good way'!
jimbofisher:
Been left on for over 48 hours now. Playing Cds most of today, al ot of my faves but also different types of music to see.
All very very good. All instruments and vocals are clearer, easier to pick out separate notes. Bass is deeper and tighter. Overall it is warmer (especially previous bright albums like New Order's Technique), long listening periods a pleasure, though CD73 was.
Very very happy with it. Have to say I have always love my TT sound so that does perhaps help.
Perhaps the best thing I can do however is quote my wife 'I like this, you can really hear a difference in a good way'!
Thanks for the info, I'll certainly bare that in mind when it comes to testing.
Been left on for over 48 hours now. Playing Cds most of today, al ot of my faves but also different types of music to see.
All very very good. All instruments and vocals are clearer, easier to pick out separate notes. Bass is deeper and tighter. Overall it is warmer (especially previous bright albums like New Order's Technique), long listening periods a pleasure, though CD73 was.
Very very happy with it. Have to say I have always love my TT sound so that does perhaps help.
Perhaps the best thing I can do however is quote my wife 'I like this, you can really hear a difference in a good way'!
Thanks for the info, I'll certainly bare that in mind when it comes to testing.
Poor PP, you seem to be having a hard time of it recently. If it is of any help, I would point out that my DACmagic is no longer hooked up to CDP and amp, now being confined to BDP, V+ box and computer-related work. I found it was no benefit to use with the Primares.
That aside, get out there with that Madagascan gizmo and listen to some more options!
That aside, get out there with that Madagascan gizmo and listen to some more options!
ESP2009:
Poor PP, you seem to be having a hard time of it recently. If it is of any help, I would point out that my DACmagic is no longer hooked up to CDP and amp, now being confined to BDP, V+ box and computer-related work. I found it was no benefit to use with the Primares.
That aside, get out there with that Madagascan gizmo and listen to some more options!
Welcome back...
Just a little chuffed off with hi-fis in general...
Poor PP, you seem to be having a hard time of it recently. If it is of any help, I would point out that my DACmagic is no longer hooked up to CDP and amp, now being confined to BDP, V+ box and computer-related work. I found it was no benefit to use with the Primares.
That aside, get out there with that Madagascan gizmo and listen to some more options!
Welcome back...
Just a little chuffed off with hi-fis in general...
plastic penguin:ESP2009:
Poor PP, you seem to be having a hard time of it recently. If it is of any help, I would point out that my DACmagic is no longer hooked up to CDP and amp, now being confined to BDP, V+ box and computer-related work. I found it was no benefit to use with the Primares.
That aside, get out there with that Madagascan gizmo and listen to some more options!
Welcome back...
Just a little chuffed off with hi-fis in general...
I think I can understand to a degree how you feel. I decided just after I purchased the ProAcs that it was time I stopped 'wasting' my time with all this hi-fi lark. I have, for the last near 2yrs been spending far too much time on the subject. Because there is so much variety out there, so many opinions, so many products and 'flavours', so many possible combinations and circumstances, it just sucks you in. Having purchased the speakers, I thought it was time to call a halt. I was neglecting other aspects of my life in pursuit of a listening experience I really can't afford and which is impossible in my current circumstances anyway. Arguably, given those circumstances, spending close on £3k (excluding accessories) is a waste anyway! However, on occasion I can now listen to music with a firm conviction that it sounds better than it did.
Is it worth the time and the hassle? Is the thrill of the hunt the main part of the enjoyment? Are the occasional set-backs valuable experiences to be accepted and appreciated as part of the whole process? Or do we simply want to go out, and in one quick spree, choose (let's say) three hi-fi components that will bring a huge smile to our faces when we get them home? Honestly, in the cold light of day, I lean toward the latter, but can't say I haven't enjoyed spending time and money with trial-and-error experiences along the way.
I came back to the forum feeling guilty. I had spent time at Music Matters and then Frank Harvey, but spent my cash elsewhere despite the best of intentions. Subsequently, I had stopped spending time on the forum and contributing. But that way temptation lies and I have been feeling the twitch and the itch and the urge to tweak again. It's not good! I need to stop. The line has to be drawn, but each time I venture onto the WHF site there is more interesting stuff raising the bar and presenting the question: "What if I?" And now the darned mag has been delivered...
So, when it comes down to, there is a common sense voice that says: "enough is enough! You are spending too much time going round in circles!" Well, maybe, if we're lucky, they could be spirals, and that's the lure and the trap. Perhaps you need to sit back (and by heck it's not easy!) and leave well alone for a while. Put money away and later in the year come back to the thorny issue afresh.
Ah, got to go now...socialising calls...
Poor PP, you seem to be having a hard time of it recently. If it is of any help, I would point out that my DACmagic is no longer hooked up to CDP and amp, now being confined to BDP, V+ box and computer-related work. I found it was no benefit to use with the Primares.
That aside, get out there with that Madagascan gizmo and listen to some more options!
Welcome back...
Just a little chuffed off with hi-fis in general...
I think I can understand to a degree how you feel. I decided just after I purchased the ProAcs that it was time I stopped 'wasting' my time with all this hi-fi lark. I have, for the last near 2yrs been spending far too much time on the subject. Because there is so much variety out there, so many opinions, so many products and 'flavours', so many possible combinations and circumstances, it just sucks you in. Having purchased the speakers, I thought it was time to call a halt. I was neglecting other aspects of my life in pursuit of a listening experience I really can't afford and which is impossible in my current circumstances anyway. Arguably, given those circumstances, spending close on £3k (excluding accessories) is a waste anyway! However, on occasion I can now listen to music with a firm conviction that it sounds better than it did.
Is it worth the time and the hassle? Is the thrill of the hunt the main part of the enjoyment? Are the occasional set-backs valuable experiences to be accepted and appreciated as part of the whole process? Or do we simply want to go out, and in one quick spree, choose (let's say) three hi-fi components that will bring a huge smile to our faces when we get them home? Honestly, in the cold light of day, I lean toward the latter, but can't say I haven't enjoyed spending time and money with trial-and-error experiences along the way.
I came back to the forum feeling guilty. I had spent time at Music Matters and then Frank Harvey, but spent my cash elsewhere despite the best of intentions. Subsequently, I had stopped spending time on the forum and contributing. But that way temptation lies and I have been feeling the twitch and the itch and the urge to tweak again. It's not good! I need to stop. The line has to be drawn, but each time I venture onto the WHF site there is more interesting stuff raising the bar and presenting the question: "What if I?" And now the darned mag has been delivered...
So, when it comes down to, there is a common sense voice that says: "enough is enough! You are spending too much time going round in circles!" Well, maybe, if we're lucky, they could be spirals, and that's the lure and the trap. Perhaps you need to sit back (and by heck it's not easy!) and leave well alone for a while. Put money away and later in the year come back to the thorny issue afresh.
Ah, got to go now...socialising calls...
Currently im in the same situation. Í have been reading forums and visiting Hifishops for demo's the past year because i wasnt satisfied with the sound of my system. Eventually i upgraded my speakers to Dynaudio Excite X12 and sometimes im happy with the sound. There are hooked up to a AVR2105 and recently i purcased a RDAC wich i don't like. So now i use an D2x soundcard as a source wich i don't like either (playing flac true the pc, also explaines the DAC route).
Because of the many different coiches and opinions i don't know what to do. Also the search for new equipment is not a plesure but a pain in the ass.
Because of the many different coiches and opinions i don't know what to do. Also the search for new equipment is not a plesure but a pain in the ass.
thelimpman said:
As it stands I love my current set-up. Like most though I get itchy feet and look at the best ways [and cheapest] of upgrading.
I have found myself thinking exactly the same as ESP2009 excellent post . I am also fed up with the endless search for the perfect sound. It just isn't there and never will be. Enough is enough, It really is a load of old cobblers. You really don't have to spend much money at all to get an excellent system. Most of the comments on this forum about various bits of equipment are down to individual perception and therefore fairly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. And yes that includes my past posts. It should be about enjoying music through decent equipment. Yes it is a bit of fun, but it is also expensive to continuously change kit.
This is why I have sold off most of my old kit. Purchased a budget setup that sounds lovely. And brought a holiday on the proceeds. The irony is that I have almost gone full circle as regards equipment. It was nice to sit down and listen to 12 songs by Neil Diamond tonight without even worrying about the sound.
The end !
This is why I have sold off most of my old kit. Purchased a budget setup that sounds lovely. And brought a holiday on the proceeds. The irony is that I have almost gone full circle as regards equipment. It was nice to sit down and listen to 12 songs by Neil Diamond tonight without even worrying about the sound.
The end !
Who's looking for the perfect sound? I'm certainly not. Alas, my aim is to go from a budget/lower midrange system to a set-up that's far better. Nowt wrong with that.
plastic penguin said:
My post wasn't directed at you PP,I was just expressing my dissatisfaction at the whole proceedings. You can do as you please, but the reality is you already have a pretty stonking system and any further improvement will be relatively minimal. But as you say there is nowt wrong with looking for something better. that is your decision. Good luck and I hope you get where you would like to be.
Do you think there will be a point where you are satisfied? What is that setup ? and if you could afford it would you purchase it straight away and save yourself endless amounts of fettling.?
brittondave said:
I'm not dissatisfied with the sound. The whole point really with this thread it to move to a DAC to enable less or smaller boxes, and to test my own apathy, if you like, towards modern technology.
brittondave said:
agreed. ive only just started upgrading all my stuff, but i have this strange feeling that its going to be forever ongoing until i find the sound im looking for and knowing what im like, i always want more more more
I have read many reader's comments I recognise, therefore I thought I'd add my own hifi search for the holy grail.
I started with a headphone setup, which was absolutely lovely: hd 650 with MF v-can and a decent source. Any upgrade in source was more lovely. Cyrus dacxp heavenly.
However I wanted a full setup consisting of speakers and started demoing. No speaker under 1500 could give me anything near the sound I was used to. The Avi adm's seemed on paper the perfect fit: no hassle, beest possible sound. I was in for a shock. The Avi's were so revealing, it made almost any rock/pop album unlistenable. So bright and flat and harsh. On the other hand well recorded material was magical. Each instrument was livelike and incredibly accurately placed. I was in dubio to get this system, which would be the most revealing I heard, but still not what I liked.
In the end I realised it's all about the enjoyment I get out of it. Recorded material is mostly of soso quality unless you're only buying classical and jazz. When the hifi I get is too revealing it's not for me. I listened to quad, cyrus, arcam, naim. I kept going back to arcam, despite it's flaws. It respresents music in a way that's natural and right to me. Soemtimes I feel that the sound is a bit slow on rock or pop, but on other occassions it seems just fine. I feel much is also to do with how I feel, or how fresh/tired I am when listening. I listen daily, but when I haven't listened for a few days, that is usually when I get most out of it. The details, the natural timbre, the music just flows.
To make a long story short: I realised there is no holy grail. It's only what you aim for. I decided I wanted the naturalness of sound and forgiving nature of arcam. Bought a FMJ A32, which happens to have a headphone amp that can rivel the X-can V3. Rdac has the same sound signature. It;s musical without being too harsly revealing. When I have more space I will go for speakers. Most probably will go 2nd hand and see if a high end is speaker is what I want or rather a more midrange solution like the PMC gb1i. (lovely smooth and revealing at the same time with naim)
Anyway, to PP: in your shoes I would listen to new cyrus cd and then try a different speaker like the gb1i I mentioned. Just see what it does to your sound. A home demo will give you a nice indication what is possible and what you need to do to achieve it.
I started with a headphone setup, which was absolutely lovely: hd 650 with MF v-can and a decent source. Any upgrade in source was more lovely. Cyrus dacxp heavenly.
However I wanted a full setup consisting of speakers and started demoing. No speaker under 1500 could give me anything near the sound I was used to. The Avi adm's seemed on paper the perfect fit: no hassle, beest possible sound. I was in for a shock. The Avi's were so revealing, it made almost any rock/pop album unlistenable. So bright and flat and harsh. On the other hand well recorded material was magical. Each instrument was livelike and incredibly accurately placed. I was in dubio to get this system, which would be the most revealing I heard, but still not what I liked.
In the end I realised it's all about the enjoyment I get out of it. Recorded material is mostly of soso quality unless you're only buying classical and jazz. When the hifi I get is too revealing it's not for me. I listened to quad, cyrus, arcam, naim. I kept going back to arcam, despite it's flaws. It respresents music in a way that's natural and right to me. Soemtimes I feel that the sound is a bit slow on rock or pop, but on other occassions it seems just fine. I feel much is also to do with how I feel, or how fresh/tired I am when listening. I listen daily, but when I haven't listened for a few days, that is usually when I get most out of it. The details, the natural timbre, the music just flows.
To make a long story short: I realised there is no holy grail. It's only what you aim for. I decided I wanted the naturalness of sound and forgiving nature of arcam. Bought a FMJ A32, which happens to have a headphone amp that can rivel the X-can V3. Rdac has the same sound signature. It;s musical without being too harsly revealing. When I have more space I will go for speakers. Most probably will go 2nd hand and see if a high end is speaker is what I want or rather a more midrange solution like the PMC gb1i. (lovely smooth and revealing at the same time with naim)
Anyway, to PP: in your shoes I would listen to new cyrus cd and then try a different speaker like the gb1i I mentioned. Just see what it does to your sound. A home demo will give you a nice indication what is possible and what you need to do to achieve it.
plastic penguin said:
PP, if you chance by a Linn dealer, try to get a listen to a Sneaky (as a source).
IMO It embarrasses some high price CD players, is the best streamer for the money, and is superb on 24 bit...should work very nicely with the Leema (I'm not overly keen on Linn's other kit)
It's a bit of a faff to set up (which a Linn dealer will often do), but is simplicity after that.
It may not be what you want now, but if it hits the spot (which it just could), it might prevent heading up endless cul-de-sacs in the future.
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