DAC - Stand alone unit or built into amplifier

[Oxfordian]

Curious to know which is the better, a standalone DAC or one that is built into an amplifier or CDP.

All through my limited hifi journey my DAC has always been within either the amplifier or the CDP, now I have a dedicated CD transport DAC duties have been undertaken by the Hegel H95.

Now I understand that the Hegel has a very good onboard DAC and I have no reason to doubt that as the sound out of my 6000CDT is just fine. But, if I wanted a bit more from my CD collection would the addition of an outboard DAC give me that step up in SQ?

 

[Deleted member 201267]

Curious to know which is the better, a standalone DAC or one that is built into an amplifier or CDP.

All through my limited hifi journey my DAC has always been within either the amplifier or the CDP, now I have a dedicated CD transport DAC duties have been undertaken by the Hegel H95.

Now I understand that the Hegel has a very good onboard DAC and I have no reason to doubt that as the sound out of my 6000CDT is just fine. But, if I wanted a bit more from my CD collection would the addition of an outboard DAC give me that step up in SQ?

No you need to spend thousands on a digital cable linking the CD transport to the DAC :-

Nordost Odin 2 Digital Interconnect

Nordost Odin 2 Digital Interconnect now available at Analogue Seduction.

www.analogueseduction.net

 

[nopiano]

No you need to spend thousands on a digital cable linking the CD transport to the DAC :-

Nordost Odin 2 Digital Interconnect

Nordost Odin 2 Digital Interconnect now available at Analogue Seduction.

www.analogueseduction.net

😂😂😂

 

[nopiano]

Curious to know which is the better, a standalone DAC or one that is built into an amplifier or CDP.

All through my limited hifi journey my DAC has always been within either the amplifier or the CDP, now I have a dedicated CD transport DAC duties have been undertaken by the Hegel H95.

Now I understand that the Hegel has a very good onboard DAC and I have no reason to doubt that as the sound out of my 6000CDT is just fine. But, if I wanted a bit more from my CD collection would the addition of an outboard DAC give me that step up in SQ?

It might change the sound character slightly, but in the scheme of things by not very much. And bear in mind that CD resolution has been decoded for forty years and isn’t especially demanding. A two dollar chip in a phone does quite well!

If you believe that upsampling and other processing can enhance the experience - I’m agnostic here, I just don’t know! - then a whizzy DAC might be preferable. Or you can add distortion with valves or non-oversampling designs, which find favour with some.

The other alternative might be to rip your CDs and replay them from a NAS or a device like an Innuos Zenith. The benefit some claim comes from not trying to play read-only in real time, but replaying a bit-perfect rip without have to read a CD.

Personally, I still like to play the occasional CD or SACD, even though over 80% of my listening is streaming.

 

[Oxfordian]

No you need to spend thousands on a digital cable linking the CD transport to the DAC :-

Nordost Odin 2 Digital Interconnect

Nordost Odin 2 Digital Interconnect now available at Analogue Seduction.

www.analogueseduction.net

I’ll put it on my Christmas list, I’ve been a good boy so far this year so who knows maybe Santa will leave one under the tree for me.

 

[Oxfordian]

It might change the sound character slightly, but in the scheme of things by not very much. And bear in mind that CD resolution has been decoded for forty years and isn’t especially demanding. A two dollar chip in a phone does quite well!

If you believe that upsampling and other processing can enhance the experience - I’m agnostic here, I just don’t know! - then a whizzy DAC might be preferable. Or you can add distortion with valves or non-oversampling designs, which find favour with some.

The other alternative might be to rip your CDs and replay them from a NAS or a device like an Innuos Zenith. The benefit some claim comes from not trying to play read-only in real time, but replaying a bit-perfect rip without have to read a CD.

Personally, I still like to play the occasional CD or SACD, even though over 80% of my listening is streaming.

I haven’t listened to CD’s via anything other than having the DAC built in to either the CDP or the actual Amp but sort of guessed that if I have to go to a standalone DAC then I don’t need to pay vast sums to get a decent unit.

No interest in a NAS or similar at the moment, but who knows what tomorrow may bring.

 

[aversaurus]

Stand alone there just better sounding and you don't need a expensive cable

 

[Witterings]

I haven’t listened to CD’s via anything other than having the DAC built in to either the CDP or the actual Amp but sort of guessed that if I have to go to a standalone DAC then I don’t need to pay vast sums to get a decent unit.

No interest in a NAS or similar at the moment, but who knows what tomorrow may bring.

Unless you spend a lot of money I think you'll struggle to beat the DAC in the H95 ... it's the same one they use in the H120 & 190 and even then it'll be more of a case of personal preference rather than better.

 

[aversaurus]

I'm not convinced I've never heard a internal dac that sounded better than the stand alone and I would put the humble dac magic in that list .

 

[twinkletoes]

In theory buying an outboard dac should bring some welcome improvements. As it will have its own power supply, less noisy environment and so on. In practice you may struggle to hear a difference.

Really what you will be hearing will be the tuning in the output stages. That’s where all the flavour happens.

 

[WayneKerr]

I'm very sceptical about all this internal vs external DAC stuff, and indeed if there is actually a huge sonic difference between them all.

I remember reading some years ago an eminent brand ambassador saying the best place for a DAC was in the CDP not in the amp due to the noisy environment in an amp, within a few years that company was putting DACs in amps, and everyone else too!

We now have a situation where we have CDPs without DACs giving the user the opportunity the connect it to a DAC of their choice... This is all starting to read like an options list for a car... why sell them two boxes when we can sell them three at twice the price.

Personally I like to keep it simple, CDP handles the digital aspect, amplifier handles the amplification. Job done. Just my opinion of course

 

[nopiano]

I'm very sceptical about all this internal vs external DAC stuff, and indeed if there is actually a huge sonic difference between them all.

I remember reading some years ago an eminent brand ambassador saying the best place for a DAC was in the CDP not in the amp due to the noisy environment in an amp, within a few years that company was putting DACs in amps, and everyone else too!

We now have a situation where we have CDPs without DACs giving the user the opportunity the connect it to a DAC of their choice... This is all starting to read like an options list for a car... why sell them two boxes when we can sell them three at twice the price.

Personally I like to keep it simple, CDP handles the digital aspect, amplifier handles the amplification. Job done. Just my opinion of course

My feelings entirely, although I have made an exception for my Tascam, which I’m sending to the Linn DAC.

 

[WayneKerr]

My feelings entirely, although I have made an exception for my Tascam, which I’m sending to the Linn DAC.

Is that because the Tascam DAC is pants?

 

[nopiano]

Is that because the Tascam DAC is pants?

No, it’s because I don’t have enough analogue inputs. I’ve got the SACD Marantz feeding analogue in, alongside phono and tuner. That’s my three inputs spoken for. Then the Tascam is connected via coax digitally.

Amazingly, even this budget Tascam has an AKM DAC which sounds pretty decent to my ears. It has economies like a captive mains lead and a thin folded case, but the insides are really good. But because it’s not marketed as Hifi, but more for studio/club use it’s a ridiculously good bargain. All imo, naturally.

Mine came from Superfi, a Hifi shop, but the majority are advertised without VAT on studio, install and education supplier sites.

 

[WayneKerr]

No, it’s because I don’t have enough analogue inputs. I’ve got the SACD Marantz feeding analogue in, alongside phono and tuner. That’s my three inputs spoken for. Then the Tascam is connected via coax digitally.

Amazingly, even this budget Tascam has an AKM DAC which sounds pretty decent to my ears. It has economies like a captive mains lead and a thin folded case, but the insides are really good. But because it’s not marketed as Hifi, but more for studio/club use it’s a ridiculously good bargain. All imo, naturally.

Mine came from Superfi, a Hifi shop, but the majority are advertised without VAT on studio, install and education supplier sites.

Hope you took it the right way, my comment was tongue in cheek but thanks for the explanation nopiano Just had a look at the rear of your Linn... it's a veritable swiss army knife connection hub!

 

[nopiano]

Hope you took it the right way, my comment was tongue in cheek but thanks for the explanation nopiano Just had a look at the rear of your Linn... it's a veritable swiss army knife connection hub!

Don’t worry, I knew it was a leg pull, and it’s not quite got the refinement of the Marantz. But I used it as a player when it first arrived and I certainly didn’t think it sounded poor at all. I was really pleasantly surprised.

Yes, the DSM can accommodate all those AV things I don’t understand, as well as regular Hifi stuff. It’s incredible for such a compact box. Did I show you the insides? This was the main board that gets returned to Linn when i had the DAC upgrade. Even some of the sockets are replaced.

https://imgur.com/tzyRRgp

View: https://imgur.com/tzyRRgp

 

[WayneKerr]

Don’t worry, I knew it was a leg pull, and it’s not quite got the refinement of the Marantz. But I used it as a player when it first arrived and I certainly didn’t think it sounded poor at all. I was really pleasantly surprised.

Yes, the DSM can accommodate all those AV things I don’t understand, as well as regular Hifi stuff. It’s incredible for such a compact box. Did I show you the insides? This was the main board that gets returned to Linn when i had the DAC upgrade. Even some of the sockets are replaced.

https://imgur.com/tzyRRgp

View: https://imgur.com/tzyRRgp

Blimey! I know what I'm looking at but I wouldn't have a clue what does what and what goes where, I'm a complete numpty when it comes to electronics

Sorry for derailing your thread Oxfordian

 

[nopiano]

Blimey! I know what I'm looking at but I wouldn't have a clue what does what and what goes where, I'm a complete numpty when it comes to electronics

Sorry for derailing your thread Oxfordian

It probably qualifies given the fact it’s a DAC in a (pre) amplifier! 😀

 

[Oxfordian]

Blimey! I know what I'm looking at but I wouldn't have a clue what does what and what goes where, I'm a complete numpty when it comes to electronics

Sorry for derailing your thread Oxfordian

No worries, there are always little bits of info that I can take away from these leg pulls and jibes that bounce around these threads.

Anyway, when has a thread ever run true on here?

 

[nopiano]

Oh, and just for comparison sakes, this picture is amongst the publicity for the new Arcam range. This is what’s inside their streamer. Even allowing for the lack of preamp, I think it looks a bit sparse. Mind you, it’s £799, but there is a DAC in there somewhere!

https://imgur.com/6Yzqn4Y

View: https://imgur.com/6Yzqn4Y

 

[WayneKerr]

Oh, and just for comparison sakes, this picture is amongst the publicity for the new Arcam range. This is what’s inside their streamer. Even allowing for the lack of preamp, I think it looks a bit sparse. Mind you, it’s £799, but there is a DAC in there somewhere!

https://imgur.com/6Yzqn4Y

View: https://imgur.com/6Yzqn4Y

Good god! There may be a DAC in there but there's an awful lot of expensive fresh air too

 

[nopiano]

Good god! There may be a DAC in there but there's an awful lot of expensive fresh air too

Yes indeed. Even the CD player is thinly spread. I wondered if they’d intentionally released these pictures, because they aren’t too persuasive imo. Nice cases though! 😉

 

[Oxfordian]

Oh, and just for comparison sakes, this picture is amongst the publicity for the new Arcam range. This is what’s inside their streamer. Even allowing for the lack of preamp, I think it looks a bit sparse. Mind you, it’s £799, but there is a DAC in there somewhere!

https://imgur.com/6Yzqn4Y

View: https://imgur.com/6Yzqn4Y

According to the blurb this unit weighs 3.7kg, I didn't realise that fresh air weighed so much, still you live and learn.

 

[nopiano]

According to the blurb this unit weighs 3.7kg, I didn't realise that fresh air weighed so much, still you live and learn.

🤣🤣🤣

 

[Gray]

According to the blurb this unit weighs 3.7kg, I didn't realise that fresh air weighed so much, still you live and learn.

We can be sure the case is solid then