DAC or Streamer?

[Garett]

I want to know what people might recommend or suggest? I Currently have a HiFi system I am happy with but I want to get more out of my digital media. I am currently playing music from my desktop PC via a Creative external sound card, which is an upgrade over the internal one but still not great. It has RCA out on it which is fed over a 10m long phono cable to an aux in on the amp. The sound card also has optical out on it which currently isn't used.

As I see it my options are...

A.) Get a streamer such as the Pioneer N30/50 or the Marantz NA6005 etc and use that to stream from my computer and play Spotify or Tidal if I decide I want higher res.

B.) Get a good quality DAC such as the Arcam rDAC and continue to play music from my computer as I do now via a USB/optical out from my computer.

Is there maybe another solution I haven't considered, what do you guys do?

 

[newlash09]

Helmet first

 

[newlash09]

Playback will come from your dac. So I would advise a good external dac first. And try to stream music from your pc via usb to the dac. But 10 m is too long a distance to steam from. It usually recommended to keep the distance close to 1m as per my amp manual.

If you can't reduce that distance. Then you will have to consider streaming from your pc to a separate streamer. But the streamer is just another computer in the loop. And a wasted expenditure. So try getting a dac first and try streaming directly from your pc's usb.

 

[newlash09]

Hi Garrett,

Having been down both roads, I ended up with a streamer, but I would say there are pluses and minuses for both and it really depends on what you want from your system in terms of both sound quality and functionality.

10m is a long run for USB, and unless you can somehow get this down to around 2m, I would say you will likely suffer problems with the PC and DAC route.  However I would say that if you can get this distance down, I would go for a DAC.  In either situation you will have to have your computer on all the time, and adding a DAC to your PC via USB will make an enormous difference to sound quality - it's by far the easiest step to take.  I owned the rDAC and it was a big step up over using the PC's internal DAC.  You may already be well versed in this, so apologies if I'm telling you things you already know, but can also upgrade the digital output from your PC before it gets to your DAC.  Please don't believe the people who say that it's just the DAC that governs the quality of digital music - different digital sources can make a huge difference.  You don't say which software you're using to play music on your PC, but there are some great apps (e.g. Audirvana and JRiver and several others) that will take the sonic performance of your PC much higher than with the likes of bog standard iTunes, and also allow for room correction and EQ. 

However the 10m length will be a problem for USB. and if you really can't reduce this distance, I think a streamer connected to your home network would be the better option.  

 

 

You better grab a helmet too

 

[jas0_0]

+1

Having been down both roads, I ended up with a streamer, but I would say there are pluses and minuses for both and it really depends on what you want from your system in terms of both sound quality and functionality.

10m is a long run for USB, and unless you can somehow get this down to around 2m, I would say you will likely suffer problems with the PC and DAC route. However if you can get this distance down, I would go for a DAC. Whether using a DAC or strramer, you will have to have your computer on all the time. Adding a DAC to your PC via USB will make an enormous difference to sound quality and it's by far the easiest step to take. I owned the rDAC and it was a big step up over using the PC's internal DAC. You may already be well versed in this, so apologies if I'm telling you things you already know, but you can upgrade the digital output from your PC before it gets to your DAC. Please don't believe the people who say that it's just the DAC that governs the quality of digital music - I have heard different digital sources make huge differences in blind tests. You don't say which software you're using to play music on your PC, but there are some great apps (e.g. Audirvana and JRiver and several others) that will take the sonic performance of your PC much higher than with the likes of bog standard iTunes, and also allow for room correction and EQ.

However as suggested above, the 10m length will be a problem for USB. and if you really can't reduce this distance, a streamer connected to your home network might be the better option.

 

[CnoEvil]

Like Jas0_0, I went the Linn Streamer route....but you just need to compare the different options (musically and practically), to see which fits your needs best.

 

[rainsoothe]

Hi. First and best advice: try before you buy, if you can.

Secondly, there's no wrong way to go about it, BUT: USB cable length is recommended to be under 5m if I remember right, and big lengths for unbalanced connections (which RCA is) are also a pretty big no-no (because they work like antennae). This would suggest going the streamer route, if you can place it near the rest of your hi-fi. If you want to stream music that is stored on your PC, then yes, you need to have your PC on.

However, you can store your music on a NAS (network attached storage), which is like a mini-PC that acts like a server. These are less noisy than PCs (i can't hear mine at all), have no screen (they are configured over your network, from your PC), and their main purpose is storage. SOME of these NASes can be used to play music directly from them, and you can also install stuff for Tidal and Spotify and such, and you can plug a DAC into them too - but this requires some time and knoledge to configure. So this is NOT a hassle free type of scenario.

Depending on your gear, I think you could safely consider the likes of Pioneer N50A or Cambridge Audio CXN, but looking into cheaper options that come with digital outputs is also worth considering (like the Onkyo C-N 7050, which you can upgrade later with a better DAC, should you feel the need to).

 

[Andrewjvt]

Benchmark dac2 or 3 and use laptop as streamer
Job done.

There will also be no sq difference between streaming transports or digital inputs.

Save yourself from all the bs audiophile so called products.
Especially the ones that make cheaper models to sound worse (on purpose) so they can flog expensive models to the gullible.

 

[ifor]

... connected to your home network with an IQaudIO Pi+DAC HAT? Attach USB powered HDD with music files to the Pi and run Volumio software. Output from HAT to amplifier and use iOS or Android to control the software.

You could do later replace the Pi+DAC with a Pi+Digi to feed an off board DAC of your choice.

 

[insider9]

Benchmark dac2 or 3 and use laptop as streamer Job done.

There will also be no sq difference between streaming transports or digital inputs.

Save yourself from all the bs audiophile so called products. Especially the ones that make cheaper models to sound worse (on purpose) so they can flog expensive models to the gullible.

Or build yourself a streamer

 

[nopiano]

A used Logitech Squeezebox Touch would be a good way to try out streaming. And if you are more PC literate than me there are lots of tweaks to Linux Kernels, and other things I don’t understand!

For a simple DAC that’s easy to sell on or use on the move, the Audioquest Dragonfly will probably sound better than your sound card. Two versions new, Black and Red, from £89, or used earlier models. You’ll need a 3.5mm to 2x phono lead too.

 

[Gray]

... connected to your home network with an IQaudIO Pi+DAC HAT? Attach USB powered HDD with music files to the Pi and run Volumio software. Output from HAT to amplifier and use iOS or Android to control the software.

You could do later replace the Pi+DAC with a Pi+Digi to feed an off board DAC of your choice.

This may seem like too much of a faff, that's what I thought, but don't be put off Garett.

I started by playing files (CD rips and high-res) out from a laptop's hard drive, via a decent little DAC that I'd bought for the purpose.

In order to avoid the need for the laptop to be on, I considered a Cambridge CXN. People on here often point out the truth - that many of the dedicated streamers are ludicrously overpriced. Then someone suggested the Raspberry Pi and I gave it a go.

I use RuneAudio as the Operating System. The Pi plays files from a locally connected USB HDD out through that DAC I bought for the laptop.

What's not to like?... Well, it doesn't look like I've spent 800 quid.

What's to like?... I haven't spent 800 quid.

What you end up with is a low cost, unobtrusive little device (visible if you want to see power / activity indicators, totally hidden away if not)

Controllable wirelessly by phone, tablet (or PC if you've got it on anyway).

Bit-perfect through the USB DAC of your choice. What more could you want? Maybe a little touchscreen for the Pi? Not necessary, whatever you use to control it with remotely, has all the screen you need. (Though the bigger the screen, the more of your music choices you see without scrolling)

 

[jas0_0]

Another option would be buying a DAC and then speding another £60 on a Chromecast Audio with ethernet adapter. You can then use it to stream music from your computer using Openhome and controlling it from an app installed on a smartphone or tablet - see here: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/28768-nas-streaming-to-chromecast-audio-controlled-with-iphone/

The sound quality via optical to a DAC is good. The only downside is I never found a way to stream music gaplessly, which was infruriating on techno mixes and some classical music. There may now be ways around this and if none of your music is gapless, it's a very cost effective and convenient way of adding streaming to your system.

 

[andyjm]

A lot of the suggestions above make sense, particularly the RasPi solutions.

If you want to go with your original proposal, then USB 2.0 specifies a 5m maximum, although that doesn't mean it will stop working at 5.1m. If you are not powering your device down the cable it may actually work at 10m, but you will have to try it and see.

Optical is happy at 10m depending on the cable you buy. Undersea cables go 20Km betweed repeaters, but that is fancy high purity monomode glass. The cheapo plastic fibre bundles sold for home audio should manage 20m or so. I bought a no-name 10m optical cable off Amazon that works just fine.

 

[ellisdj]

I am pretty sure the oppo Sonica dac streams as well and for local stored music plug an ssd drive into a caddy and plug usb into the Sonica or have it on the network.

check this out first but pretty sure it does all this. bear in mind they not making them any more so might get one for a steal or might be all gone already

 

[Sliced Bread]

If you're a user of a streaming service then based upon the discussion below I personally would not spend a fortune on a streamer (especially not from any of the ones listed) as you may find that some functionality is discontinued in the future (and by future you may only be talking a few years depending upon manufacturer):

https://www.whathifi.com/forum/av-receivers/spotify-connect-discontinued

I've been making a similar decision to you and was all set to by a steamer but I got spooked by the large number of discontinued products for SPOTIFY. I am a Tidal customer, but it has put me off making such a large investment in something that may not do what I want it to do in the future. I kept my last CD player for about 10 years.

I therefore decided to go for a cheap(ish) streamer (SONOS connect, currently on order) and feed it into a decent DAC. In my case a Chord Mojo which may be upgraded soon. At least that way if Tidal is not supported at any point in the future I've only lost part of my investment.

If I were you I'd either buy a good dac and use it with either your PC or a cheap(ish) streamer with a good reputation, if you would like the conenience of a streamer.

Just my 2 pence.

 

[Frank Harvey]

It might be slightly easier for you to get a streamer in your situation. It depends if you don't mind cable runs.

Streamers to look at would be the Marantz to you mentioned. The Denon Heos Link, Sonos Connect or the Arcam R Play. The latter three do tend to have a more easy to use interface.

Another option that does sound excellent for the money and we have tried ourselves and another poster mentioned. Get a Chromecast. From there add a DAC for example an Audioquest Beetle take a mini optical toslink to optical from the Chromecast into the Dac. Then take a the relevant analogue cable into the amplifier.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

What else do you have in your system? I am especially interested in your amplifier and speakers, but your other sources would help too.

 

[Garett]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions people, its a hot topic obviously! I'm leaning most towards running out of my PC to a DAC and realistically it will require a 10m cable, its probably closer to 8m but thats not a stanadard length. I work in the pro AV industry so getting signals long distances is par for the course and I have seen active USB cables from the likes of Lindy but have no experience using them.

I'd be interested to know what software people recommend, I have a large mp3 collection on my PC of varying quality but I'd like to have something that is able to play FLACs too if I am to start building up a Hi-Res collection.

I've had a bit of an experiment this evening with my soundcard and a small Lindy DAC I already had used to improve the sound from the TV. There is no noticeable difference in either quality or level between running the (10m) RCA out from the soundcard directly to the amp or going diagnonally across the room and out of the sound card with a (3m) optical into the Lindy DAC and then into the amp on a short RCA. Surprising really as I expected a 10m phono cable to lose more volume than it actually does. Not sure what else this experiment has taught me though other than the DAC in the PC soundcard is comparable to the DAC in the cheapo DAC that cost me £20 off Amazon!

The rest of my system consists of Dynaudio DM 2/7, Roksan Kandy LIII, Marantz CD6004, Project Debut 3, Denon AM/FM tuner, Sony Bluray player.

 

[newlash09]

But expensive.

There are lots of other less expansive software like jriver, hq player and audirvana for a start.

 

[rainsoothe]

With your setup, I'd go for a good Dac and cheap streamer or something, as it will upgrade the sound from your CDP, Blu-ray and TV as well.

 

[brownz]

I've been playing a lot recently with Roon & the new Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital. To be honest (and I don't do promotion and advertising - only reviews and opinions on stuff I've actaully used), I think it's a killer combo. The price of the Pre Box S2 Digital made it a new member of the exclusive enclave of "Things I've bought" club ! The fact that it's Roon Approved and does things like MQA unfolding gives it a serious boost. If I'm not listening to Vinyl then I tend to listen to Tidal HiFi and the Roon front end brings everything into a nice UI and handles multiroom stuff with ease. I've also built a little fanless ROCK with an old 80GB SSD for the OS and a 5TB 2.5" 5400rpm 2nd drive for storage, and moved all my rips and flacs etc over to that with scheduled backups to the old NAS. I do have to say It all works rather well. In fact, I'm a bit bored not have anything to tinker with at the moment ;-)

 

[andyjm]

I work in the pro AV industry so getting signals long distances is par for the course...

There is no noticeable difference in either quality or level between running the (10m) RCA out from the soundcard directly to the amp or going diagnonally across the room and out of the sound card with a (3m) optical into the Lindy DAC and then into the amp on a short RCA. Surprising really as I expected a 10m phono cable to lose more volume than it actually does.

The issue with long RCA runs is not signal attenuation - domestic RCA is impedance mismatched with a low source and high sink impedance. You should not notice any reduction in level over the distances you using. The problem is noise pickup. If you aren't picking up noise, then it is just fine to use RCAs.

 

[lindsayt]

At the risk of repeating myself from other recent DAC related threads, how about this as a solution?

Plug your laptop via USB to one of these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-to-SPDIF-Converter-Coaxial-Optical-AC3-DTS-PCM-Source-Output-for-Phone-Audio/281937086073?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

then via a 10 metre SPDIF cable:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_sop=15&_nkw=spdif%2010m&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

into one of these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Digital-Optical-Coaxial-Toslink-Signal-to-Analog-Converter-Audio-Adapter-RCA-/323170233167?hash=item4b3e726b4f

powered by one of these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hifi-linear-DC-5V-output-power-25W-USB-amp-DAC-external-power-supply/131524729527?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

with the output of the DAC going into your amplifier via a 0.5metre or 1 metre length of one of these (if you don't already have a short spare RCA stereo interconnect):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PURE-OFC-Twin-Phono-Cable-Lead-Stereo-Audio-2-x-RCA-to-2-x-RCA-Male-24K-GOLD/371030427999?hash=item566323095f:m:mYWaVoh2YBTcfI9WiiXao5Q

Total cost £80. And it's reportedly a good sounding DAC and power supply combination - how good I don't know yet - bake-offs needed.