critical listening?

[MrReaper182]

For argument sake we can caricature this, audiophiles listen to equipment and music lovers listen to music. Music lovers explore new music and audiophiles explore new gear with the same music.

An audiophile is addicted to upgrades and tweaks because it delivers happy endorphins from his hunter-gatherer activity, and that mixes up with the music listening and saturates it as better overal. When the new gear novelty wears off, he looks for another fix, another upgrade. Buy new speakers, new CDP, new TT belt, new wires, new racks, then listen to Dire Straits again and again and again.

Of course not all audiophiles are like this, that is the extreeme oniomaniac version. How can you tell how much music lover is left inside you, look at your spending habbits and new music explorations. Introspect and decide.

If gear made listening to music more enjoyable because of better sound quality, men with expensive hi-fi would enjoy music more than men with cheap earbuds, whic isn't the case. Do not misinterpret enjoying consumerism and shopping with the actual pleasure derived from music alone. No reason why both shouldn't coexist, but I see the OP is worried if one can suffer at the expense of the other. IMO, it does.

Disclaimer: No reverse snobery posturing intended. Just personal thoughts by someones who is into hi-fi since 12 y/o.

I'll buy what you are saying if this was the 70's but it's not. Let me explain. In the 1970's probaly the most technical piece of equitment you had in your house that you could play around with was your hi-fi setup so people with very low interest in music but lots of interest in electrical stuff probably broght hi-hf equitment. Fast forward today and that's just so not true. People who had a low interset in music but still played around with hi-fi because they liked electronics have largly moved on to other stuff because there is so much more electrical gadgets in the modern home. So there are more people today who love music than those who just want to play around with electrical gadgets in the hi-fi scene.

 

[Freddy58]

Hifi is just a means to an end. It's all about the music when it boils down to it. I want to get the best experience (within reason) I can, but I'm not going to be a slave to 'kit'. Sure, it has to look good/pleasing, after all, it's part of the furniture. I've also come to the conclusion that all the big advances in sound quality were made a long time ago. For instance I could quite happily live with my old Kef Concorde IV's I used to have, but they were just too big.

Then there's the law of diminishing returns...

 

[Al ears]

I feel very lucky in the fact I am truly 100% satisfied with my system. It hits the spot with vinyl and cd. I don't feel the need to analyse or criticise anything.

Best not to listen to a Moon 700i and some Sopras, then. *diablo*

No best not.

 

[Vladimir]

I'll buy what you are saying if this was the 70's but it's not. Let me explain. In the 1970's probaly the most technical piece of equitment you had in your house that you could play around with was your hi-fi setup so people with very low interest in music but lots of interest in electrical stuff probably broght hi-hf equitment. Fast forward today and that's just so not true. People who had a low interset in music but still played around with hi-fi because they liked electronics have largly moved on to other stuff because there is so much more electrical gadgets in the modern home. So there are more people today who love music than those who just want to play around with electrical gadgets in the hi-fi scene.

You would think those who love music not to audition cables, power plugs and racks. You'd expect electronics enthusiasts in the 50, 60s and 70s doing that, but it's the other way around. Your appraisal why this is the case?

 

[MrReaper182]

I feel very lucky in the fact I am truly 100% satisfied with my system. It hits the spot with vinyl and cd. I don't feel the need to analyse or criticise anything.

I'm also very happy with my system but then I see all the pretty pictures in What hi-fi sound and vision and other magazines and I can not help but to want new stuff. The pretty pictures have worked their evil balck magic on me.

 

[Waxy]

...I wish I could stop buying so many bloody records!

*man_in_love*

 

[MrReaper182]

I'll buy what you are saying if this was the 70's but it's not. Let me explain. In the 1970's probaly the most technical piece of equitment you had in your house that you could play around with was your hi-fi setup so people with very low interest in music but lots of interest in electrical stuff probably broght hi-hf equitment. Fast forward today and that's just so not true. People who had a low interset in music but still played around with hi-fi because they liked electronics have largly moved on to other stuff because there is so much more electrical gadgets in the modern home. So there are more people today who love music than those who just want to play around with electrical gadgets in the hi-fi scene.

You would think those who love music not to audition cables, power plugs and racks. You'd expect electronics enthusiasts in the 50, 60s and 70s doing that, but it's the other way around. Your appraisal why this is the case?

Again, maybe people in the 70's brought hi-fi cables so they could mess around with the only piece of electrical equitment that was upgradeable in home at the time but today their is so much electrical equitment in the modern home that it would be stupid to spend big money on hi-fi cables and the such and not be into music.

 

[ellisdj]

I am not sure if anyone else is like me but I am driven by the goal of just how good can I get it. That leads me to look at every area of the system and seeing if it's as good as I can make it.

Reading a Vlad post it did describe me very well and I chuckled reading it. I do go looking for the next fix after the last so I am that category as well. But being like this has helped me discover a lot of things and in doing so learning a lot as well. You learn more from hearing other good systems than Probably anything else

I was a high level sportsmen in my youth and was very competitive maybe this is involved as well.

I can enjoy having music on and hearing it. But it's hard to sit and actually listen to it when it sounds crap regardless of any of the above don't think you need to be an Audiophile to think this

 

[Vladimir]

I'll buy what you are saying if this was the 70's but it's not. Let me explain. In the 1970's probaly the most technical piece of equitment you had in your house that you could play around with was your hi-fi setup so people with very low interest in music but lots of interest in electrical stuff probably broght hi-hf equitment. Fast forward today and that's just so not true. People who had a low interset in music but still played around with hi-fi because they liked electronics have largly moved on to other stuff because there is so much more electrical gadgets in the modern home. So there are more people today who love music than those who just want to play around with electrical gadgets in the hi-fi scene.

You would think those who love music not to audition cables, power plugs and racks. You'd expect electronics enthusiasts in the 50, 60s and 70s doing that, but it's the other way around. Your appraisal why this is the case?

Again, maybe people in the 70's brought hi-fi cables so they could mess around with the only piece of electrical equitment that was upgradeable in home at the time but today their is so much electrical equitment in the modern home that it would be stupid to spend big money on hi-fi cables and the such and not be into music.

There were no hi-fi $300 power cords and $600 speaker cables in the 70s. These days you even have audiophile SATA cables.

So buying a $300 power cord is demonstration how much into music you are? Teenagers probably hate music with their IEMs and smartphones playing mp3s all day.

 

[MrReaper182]

I'll buy what you are saying if this was the 70's but it's not. Let me explain. In the 1970's probaly the most technical piece of equitment you had in your house that you could play around with was your hi-fi setup so people with very low interest in music but lots of interest in electrical stuff probably broght hi-hf equitment. Fast forward today and that's just so not true. People who had a low interset in music but still played around with hi-fi because they liked electronics have largly moved on to other stuff because there is so much more electrical gadgets in the modern home. So there are more people today who love music than those who just want to play around with electrical gadgets in the hi-fi scene.

You would think those who love music not to audition cables, power plugs and racks. You'd expect electronics enthusiasts in the 50, 60s and 70s doing that, but it's the other way around. Your appraisal why this is the case?

Again, maybe people in the 70's brought hi-fi cables so they could mess around with the only piece of electrical equitment that was upgradeable in home at the time but today their is so much electrical equitment in the modern home that it would be stupid to spend big money on hi-fi cables and the such and not be into music.

There were no hi-fi $300 power cords and $600 speaker cables in the 70s. These days you even have audiophile SATA cables.

So buying a $300 power cord is demonstration how much into music you are? Teenagers probably hate music with their IEMs and smartphones playing mp3s all day.

I thought the reason people brought cables and the likes was to get their music to sound that bit better. What makes you an audiophile is that you try and get the best sound quality not how much you spend on your equitment. You can spend tens of thousands on your equitment but if it not matched right then spening all that money was pointless. Teens are not normally audiophiles because they don't have the money to spend on audiophile stuff. Does not mean they hate music. Some may become audiophiles later in life. I own an mp3 player.

 

[Vladimir]

I'll buy what you are saying if this was the 70's but it's not. Let me explain. In the 1970's probaly the most technical piece of equitment you had in your house that you could play around with was your hi-fi setup so people with very low interest in music but lots of interest in electrical stuff probably broght hi-hf equitment. Fast forward today and that's just so not true. People who had a low interset in music but still played around with hi-fi because they liked electronics have largly moved on to other stuff because there is so much more electrical gadgets in the modern home. So there are more people today who love music than those who just want to play around with electrical gadgets in the hi-fi scene.

You would think those who love music not to audition cables, power plugs and racks. You'd expect electronics enthusiasts in the 50, 60s and 70s doing that, but it's the other way around. Your appraisal why this is the case?

Again, maybe people in the 70's brought hi-fi cables so they could mess around with the only piece of electrical equitment that was upgradeable in home at the time but today their is so much electrical equitment in the modern home that it would be stupid to spend big money on hi-fi cables and the such and not be into music.

There were no hi-fi $300 power cords and $600 speaker cables in the 70s. These days you even have audiophile SATA cables.

So buying a $300 power cord is demonstration how much into music you are? Teenagers probably hate music with their IEMs and smartphones playing mp3s all day.

I thought the reason people brought cables and the likes was to get their music to sound that bit better. What makes you an audiophile is that you try and get the best sound quality not how much you spend on your equitment. You can spend tens of thousands on your equitment but if it not matched right then spening all that money was pointless. Teens are not normally audiophiles because they don't have the money to spend on audiophile stuff. Does not mean they hate music. Some may become audiophiles later in life. I own an mp3 player.

Making music sound better does not make you enjoy it more. That is a falacy we all believe in in this hobby. Notice how making music sound better 1) always ends up with a purchase, 2) no one can agree what better is, some go to low fidelity devices and claim they are better even if less faithfull to the original (call it higher immersion).

Let's say there is an X amount of hormones of happyness your mind delivers when you listen to Beethoven's 5th. When you buy new gear, better or not determined by your level of marketing indoctrination more than the actual sonic differences, you spike additional happy hormones from the purchase. You get hormones X+. After the gear novelty wears off, you don't end up back to X, but to -X, due to a new reference. It doesn't feel like going back to normal, but lacking of the current. This is how addiction works. If it was back to X, you wouldn't feel the drive to immediately make a new purchase.

People who have spend large chunks of their income on separates, satisfy the X+ buzz with hifi accessories like cables, isolation products, racks, resonators, magic pebles, various minor tweaks and upgrades like TT belts, different carts, valves etc.

The problem with accepting that cables, digital audio and amplification can be had perfect per application, for cheap, today, spoils everything. It doesn't matter if the differences exist or don't, make things better or worse. What matter is the purchase and the + that comes off of it.

And regarding teen music lovers, they don't need viagra in the form of Zu Audio and Conrad-Johnson to enjoy music. Hormones are bursting out of their ears. When they get older they will too need supplements to spike up their enjoyment of things. Such is life.

 

[ellisdj]

Whats wrong with the enjoyment of making music sound better, I dont see any. Doesnt mean I Iove music more or less than anyone else. I think I enjoy listening to more when it sounds good, listening to bad sound is not enjoyable even if you like what you are listening to. I can enjoy a song(s) but is it enjoyable to actually Listen to it if it sounds bad, to me no its not.

Some people love music enough to learn to write it, read it and play instruments. I would argue their devotion to music is much higher than mine. My devotion to music (sound) playback however I could argue its equally strong.

Both are fine with me

 

[CnoEvil]

Making music sound better does not make you enjoy it more. That is a falacy we all believe in in this hobby. Notice how making music sound better 1) always ends up with a purchase, 2) no one can agree what better is, some go to low fidelity devices and claim they are better even if less faithfull to the original (call it higher immersion).?

Let's say there is an X amount of hormones of happyness your mind delivers when you listen to Beethoven's 5th. When you buy new gear, better or not determined by your level of marketing indoctrination more than the actual sonic differences, you spike additional happy hormones from the purchase. You get hormones X+. After the gear novelty wears off, you don't end up back to X, but to -X, due to a new reference. It doesn't feel like going back to normal, but lacking of the current. This is how addiction works. If it was back to X, you wouldn't feel the drive to immediately make a new purchase.?

People who have spend large chunks of their income on separates, satisfy the X+ buzz with hifi accessories like cables, isolation products, racks, resonators, magic pebles, various minor tweaks and upgrades like TT belts, different carts, valves etc.

The problem with accepting that cables, digital audio and amplification can be had perfect per application, for cheap, today, spoils everything. It doesn't matter if the differences exist or don't, make things better or worse. What matter is the purchase and the + that comes off of it.?

And regarding teen music lovers, they don't need viagra in the form of Zu Audio and Conrad-Johnson to enjoy music. Hormones are bursting out of their ears. When they get older they will too need supplements to spike up their enjoyment of things. Such is life.

Have you ever lived with an expensive system that you loved....say in the region of £15k+?

 

[Vladimir]

Not yet. Haven't seen bacteria with my eyes either.

 

[CnoEvil]

Not yet. Haven't seen bacteria with my eyes either.

Then your view, while interesting, is purely academic and theoretical.

I do however think there is an element of, "the thrill of the chase", but that doesn't apply in all cases.

Ask Mac whether he is enjoying his music more since he got the Electrocompaniet CDP, Accuphase and Harbeths, and you will get a resounding "Yes".

 

[Vladimir]

Not yet. Haven't seen bacteria with my eyes either.

Then your view, while interesting, is purely academic and theoretical.

I wish. It's just an observation of human behavior.

BTW how do you guys explain the fact there are practically no women in this hobby?

 

[chebby]

Not yet. Haven't seen bacteria with my eyes either.

Then your view, while interesting, is purely academic and theoretical.

I wish. It's just an observation of human behavior.

BTW how do you guys explain the fact there are practically no women in this hobby?

For the same reason that the great Fay Godwin was originally told by her [soon-to-be-ex] husband that, being a woman, she'd never be capable of learning something as technical as photography!

 

[CnoEvil]

BTW how do you guys explain the fact there are practically no women in this hobby? 

For the same reason that many men are obsessed with Cars and Football, while many women are obsessed with shoes and handbags.

There is also the "fact" that men seem more obsessional by nature, which translates into making a system the best it can be.

 

[Vladimir]

But wasn't this hobby technical in the 70s and now its just for the pure love of music? Why would women not want better sound that gives better enjoyment of music?

 

[chebby]

But wasn't this hobby technical in the 70s and now its just for the pure love of music? Why would women not want better sound that gives better enjoyment of music?

Because she'd walk into the shop and be be asked "waitin' for the boyfriend luv?"

(I believe that very situation was posted on by Clare Newsome once.)

 

[Vladimir]

But wasn't this hobby technical in the 70s and now its just for the pure love of music? Why would women not want better sound that gives better enjoyment of music?

Because she'd walk into the shop and be be asked "waitin' for the boyfriend luv?"

(I believe that very situation was posted on by Clare Newsome once.)

I'm not surprised that happened. But why though?

 

[chebby]

Why would women not want better sound that gives better enjoyment of music?

I think some do.

Ok picture it. Wife or girlfriend comes home one day with a car boot full of system upgrades, she packs up all the old stuff her partner bought a few years previously and starts installing the new kit hoping to get it all set up before he gets home. At last she's got the system she likes.

You realise at least half the forum would be reaching for blood pressure meds if that was a real post.

 

[MrReaper182]

BTW how do you guys explain the fact there are practically no women in this hobby?

For the same reason that many men are obsessed with Cars and Football, while many women are obsessed with shoes and handbags.

There is also the "fact" that men seem more obsessional by nature, which translates into making a system the best it can be.

Their are probably lots of women into hi-fi after all there are 3 who work for What hi-fi who class themselves as audiophiles. I guess woman have better things to be doing then talking to a bunch of men on the internet about hi-fi.

 

[CnoEvil]

There are probably lots of women into hi-fi...

...maybe it's the same, as the number of men that are into shoes. *biggrin*

 

[CnoEvil]

I also love going cloths shopping.....

Is that like a "Toga thing" going on? *wink*