CM1 or DS3 for rears with CM8 Package

[duaplex]

Ok Dilemma

My room is 14*12 feet and this means my sofa is against the back wall, The system I am buying is as follows CM8, CMC, PV1 and either CM1 for rear or DS3 dipole. To be powered by the AVR500.

What do you guys think is best for rear, is the DS3 good or just stick to CM1 with stands and have them firing directly into my ears on against the back wall. Dealers have said go for dipole.

Thanks guys

 

[duaplex]

Any takers?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Dipoles on the back wall, used in bipole mode.

 

[duaplex]

As always David your advice in appreciated. Dipoles it is.

 

[duaplex]

I feel I need to ressurect this one purely for debate.

I have the DS3 on the walls pointing at me (sides) but for some odd reason I prefer them in Monopole mode as opposed to Dipole! So i have had a look at the THX site and Dolby for 5.1 setups and all say a 90 - 110 angle is fine for rears. This means that the CM1's could sit perfectly to the side of me even though my sofa is against the wall.

Now im seriously considering swapping my DS3 rear speakers for CM1's. Would you guys this this is wise, considering my setup of being against the wall (sofa) and prefering the monopole sound?

Would the CM1 create a better sound field as I have the CM8's or should i just stick to the dipoles in monopole?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Many will say that diffuse rear speakers will always be better, but it really depend shuts you want to imitate, as well as personal preference. Some prefer the rear info to be 'spread', whereas others prefer a more precise, vivid rear effect. Mastering studios use monopoles all round, so if you want to recreate what they've mixed, monopoles will be preferred. Cinemas use multiple side speakers down the length of the room, which dipole speakers try and recreate, so this will be preferred if you like a cinema type sound.

What you have to be careful of with placing speakers close to a side wall (side in relation to the speaker) is high frequency reflections, which can exaggerate HF.

 

[duaplex]

Hi David, Always a pleasure to speak to you.

So am I missed out by not having the CM1's and instead using the DS3 as a monopole? I was told that the speakers should ideally be the same all around to create a better sound field. So I'm worried I may be missing out.

Thanks as always

 

[DandyCobalt]

I've got CM1s for surrounds and rear, and placement is very important. Whilst sitting in the sweet spot ( based on the pioneer a/v receiver mcacc setup) is very good, anyone sitting nearer the surrounds does get quite quite an earful from their nearest speaker.

For some reason the surround rear on my first time play of Se7en blu-ray was extremely loud at the weekend - I'm going to move the speaker up on to a wallmount to avoid repeats.

I haven't tried dipoles, but maybe room arrangement (and where you all listen from) is main issue in deciding what might be best, rather than specifically choosing matching speakers?

 

[Sliced Bread]

I agree. I've always been taught that dipoles should be at ear height and monopoles should be sat high point down a little and into the room, even if you're sitting next to them.

I also sit against the back wall and use cm1's up high and I find that having them point forwards works well. Oddly I receive more sound from "behind" me this way than when they point at the istening position.

I can't compare the cm1s to the ds3 as ice not heard the later, but the cm1s have good imaging afnd blend in to the cm8& CMCC well to create a good seamless sound field. But as Dandy says...positioning us important.

 

[Sliced Bread]

While we have the cm8 owners in one spot, have any of you tried the CMCC2 with the cm8's?

 

[DandyCobalt]

While we have the cm8 owners in one spot, have any of you tried the CMCC2 with the cm8's?

I simply don't have the space for one - a big beast.

What I have found useful with the CMCentre, is using ipad remote for my Pioneer receiver to boost it for poor centre channel speech soundtracks. Really makes a difference sometimes.

 

[Sliced Bread]

While we have the cm8 owners in one spot, have any of you tried the CMCC2 with the cm8's?

I simply don't have the space for one - a big beast.

What I have found useful with the CMCentre, is using ipad remote for my Pioneer receiver to boost it for poor centre channel speech soundtracks. Really makes a difference sometimes.

Ah, good tip

I think it's a great centre speaker, but knowing what the fst drivers are capable of on the cm8's I am eager to try the one on the CMC2

You're probably right though as the measurements look pretty big (I've not seen one in real life), but I would consider adding another shelf and slotting it out of the way.

The CMC soniclly blends in well with the cthe cm8's, so my main concern is whether the cmc2 doesn't.

 

[duaplex]

It depends on the size of your room. Ideally the CMC2 should be in a more spacious room. If you have a room like mine that is 14x12 meters then you will not really benefit from that monster in the room, much like having the CM9 in a simila environment. It will be more beneficial to stick with the CMC as that should perform better in that space. This is what i was told when I wanted to test it out

 

[Frank Harvey]

Hi David, Always a pleasure to speak to you.

So am I missed out by not having the CM1's and instead using the DS3 as a monopole? I was told that the speakers should ideally be the same all around to create a better sound field. So I'm worried I may be missing out.

Thanks as always

Thanks Duaplex, and apologies for not answering sooner - the lack of a 'subscribed threads' feature makes it hard to keep track of things sometimes.

With dipoles, they will sound a little different to the rest of the sepakers, even if they're using the same drivers and are designed to be used with that range. Their cabinet volume is usually much smaller than the front pair, and sometimes the centre, so timbre doesn't always match, and the diffuse sound does tend to change it's characteristics a little. I've gone from using tripoles at the rear to using monopoles to match the front, which does make things more consistent.

Height-wise, rear speakers are usually a little better higher up - this may be a foot above head height, or even two or three. While my fronts are head height, my rears (at the side) are about half a foot/a foot higher.

 

[duaplex]

So David should i change the DS3's over for CM1's thats the question? Given my situation with the sofa against the wall, is it advisable? What is your expert opinon on that one.

Hey no need to apologise

 

[DandyCobalt]

Height-wise, rear speakers are usually a little better higher up - this may be a foot above head height, or even two or three. While my fronts are head height, my rears (at the side) are about half a foot/a foot higher.

Last weekend I mounted my CM1 rear and one surround up high on the wall (due to shape of room I have one on a stand), and it's made a big difference. Even Mrs Cobalt has noticed (the acid test!).

We were watching the new series of Tru-Blood (I think it's on FX HD) and the intro music by Jace Everett in surround sound (DD) was noticably better than the last series - as far as I know, the only difference has been the height of my CM1s

The wall-mounts get added to my list of "most cost-effective improvements to sound". For info, I used these, and they were very easy to fit...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004DCAOHK/ref=oh_o05_s00_i00_details

 

[Sliced Bread]

It sounds much more immersive doesn't it

:cheer:

 

[DandyCobalt]

It sounds much more immersive doesn't it

:cheer:

Definitely!! We felt two feet under the swamp...

 

[duaplex]

Thats interesting, are you saying Danny that in a 5.1 set up the CM1 would be better on a wall mount. If so how are you having this mounted. Would that be in the corners behind or to the sides of the listening position and how high up the wall are we talking.

I am about to knock down the chimney breast which will mean I will have a 3ft gap behind the Sofa where I can place the CM1's. Now in this instance do you think I should go for wall mount CM1's or put them on stands behind me, if so how high and which position. Or stick to DS3 dipoles.

One thing to mention, one speaker will sit in a 3ft space beteen the sofa and my rear wall the other rear will have open space behind it. Not sure if that is too close or not. Can a speaker be close to the couch or is there a certain distance?

Thanks Again guys, I promise i will stop moaning after this!

 

[DandyCobalt]

Hi Duaplex, my set-up is full of compromises, as my room is about 3.5m x 4m (although we've opened up into the dining room, none of the gear is in that part).

The only place I can put my tv etc is in the corner, and so I've had to put the speakers where I can get away with it. So for the surround speakers, I've got:

Surround side right - on a B&W stand (the one for the CM1) at ear level next to settee (closest to tv or projector screen, so least used seat in the room)

Surround side left - in far left corner of room, up high (18 inches from ceiling on the wall mount I mentioned - furniture underneath so can't be lower).

Surround rear - in right back corner of room, it was on an ikea cabinet at ear level behind my wall-mounted turntable, but as the t/t was blocking the sound, I've wall-mounted it to about three feet from ceiling.

I then re-ran the mcacc setup from my pioneer lx-53 (i chose the "front align" setting, as before) and it all sounds really great. Better than before.

I'm just about to get back my turntable from Inspire Hifi (Quest upgrade to my Rega P3-24) so I will take pics of that corner and the other speaker. Should be up here by weekend.

 

[duaplex]

I know what you mean, I have come to the conclusion that the only way to get what you need out of it and with perfect placement is with a dedicated room.

So I called B&W and after numerous calls and emails they agreed that the CM1 may fit well but the DS3 works just as well. So there is no need to really chop them in. The problem was getting the CM1 to the ideal 2ft height, no stand I have seen can do this! (guys please correct me if I am wrong). Then you start to look at wall brackets and this is not advisable by B&W as they say it will damage the CM1 in time.

So ultimately I am left with the DS3 for now. Unless i can find a stand that stands at 6ft (183 cm). BTW I showed them a sketch with my sofa being 3ft off the rear wall and they agreed that would be ample space. I was advised to go as close to the wall as possible to distance myself from it and add the sponge bung to the speaker port to stop boom, if needed.

I may just invest the money in upgrading to the PV1D and sell my PV1.

 

[Sliced Bread]

Hi duplex,

Mine are directly to either side about 7 foot away and wall mounted about 6 foot up. I've used wall mounts for rear speakers for about the last 10 years without damage (just don't over tighten them).

Atacama do some high versions of some of their stands. I used to have a pair that were 90cm. I switched to wall mounts though as the results were better

 

[duaplex]

Thats interesting its something I can do with mine. Do you get a boom effect when using them on the wall? Just curious if you use the sponge for the port on the back.

In my situation, if wall mounted, they would be behind my couch (3ft) and 7ft from my listening position. What do you think in your experience?

Intersting how you have them on the sides!