class A upgrade

[rymidd]

I was wondering what improvement a sugden a21 will have over my Roksan Caspian m2 with my eb acoustics speakers eb1,
I have never had a class A amp. I have have the roksan Caspian m2 for around 10 years now which I have been very happy with,
but a upgrade do cross my mind.

 

[Al ears]

I was wondering what improvement a sugden a21 will have over my Roksan Caspian m2 with my eb acoustics speakers eb1,
I have never had a class A amp. I have have the roksan Caspian m2 for around 10 years now which I have been very happy with,
but a upgrade do cross my mind.

A different presentation for sure, upgrade? Possibly not. You really need to get to audition one if you can.

 

[rymidd]

A different presentation for sure, upgrade? Possibly not. You really need to get to audition one if you can.

A different presentation for sure, upgrade? Possibly not. You really need to get to audition one if you can.

thanks for your reply I also have a record deck , Caspian has no phone stage but me vinyl deck has one built in
so I am still able to play my records, but probably not at is best

 

[daytona600]

Roksan off the shelf . Sugden you can wait a year

 

[Al ears]

Roksan off the shelf . Sugden you can wait a year

Unless you can find a second-hand hand one.
He already has the Roksan

 

[Al ears]

thanks for your reply I also have a record deck , Caspian has no phone stage but me vinyl deck has one built in
so I am still able to play my records, but probably not at is best

No probably not the best, the Sugden doesn't have an inbuilt phono stage either.

 

[twinkletoes]

No probably not the best, the Sugden doesn't have an inbuilt phono stage either.

Depends on which a21 you’re talking about

 

[twinkletoes]

The a21 sig is the is model I have.

You can buy line only or with a phono stage.

I don’t know what your speakers are like to drive but the biggest difference you will notice first off is the bass weight. It’s very full and very very deep it’s really quite surprising.

Dig a bit deeper and listen longer and you notice that everything is very fluid and very present. Everything is very quick. Comes from the always on nature of class a.

Is it an upgrade? I haven’t got any experience with your roksan. But it will certainly be a very big flavour change more so than many other amp.

I believe Cheshire audio have stock of sugden a21s right now.

 

[rymidd]

Depends on which a21 you’re talking about

I know one version has a phono stage, I just have a small room with small speakers and was just wondering the sugden a21 would be more suitable with 23 watts class A , might have a bit more tone but I don't want to lose the rhythmic sound of my current set up.

 

[Al ears]

Depends on which a21 you’re talking about

I meant the original a21 which I believe was line only.
Later versions might well have an optional phono stage but the OP did state a21.......

 

[twinkletoes]

I know one version has a phono stage, I just have a small room with small speakers and was just wondering the sugden a21 would be more suitable with 23 watts class A , might have a bit more tone but I don't want to lose the rhythmic sound of my current set up.

Well the sugden certainly isn't short of rhythmic ability the drive is the question
for me it is the best amp ive ever owned and machete perfectly with my klipsch. Its stopped all my upgradeitus/GAS. everything else sounds dull by comparison.

It can certainly drive harder load speaker. but this is single ended so the wattage will drop as the load the increases.

Phono option is 300quid upgrade. and that can be done at any time.

Another option would be the newly re-release musical fidelity A1 alot cheaper slightly more watts but with demanding music will lean slightly into class B to give some dynamic punch so not 100% class A but stay 99% of the time.

Id see if you can arrange a demo

 

[twinkletoes]

I meant the original a21 which I believe was line only.
Later versions might well have an optional phono stage but the OP did state a21.......

pretty sure he's speaking about the "new" signature version which has an optional phono stage.

 

[Al ears]

pretty sure he's speaking about the "new" signature version which has an optional phono stage.

Quite possibly but nowhere does he mention that.

 

[rymidd]

Quite possibly but nowhere does he mention that.

it the latest model I am looking at, also I will loot at the musical fidelity A1.

 

[Al ears]

it the latest model I am looking at, also I will loot at the musical fidelity A1.

Not sure if either of these come with a phono stage as standard.
However both are highly rated.

 

[Jasonovich]

I'm a little off the topic here, but I thought I share.
Korean outfit Rose has a new integrated amp, Class AD.
AD? I assume this was a union of Class A and Class D, if so that would be amazing.
I couldn't be more wrong, it simply means Advance Circuit class D, still looks like an impressive Rose integrated amp and priced at £2999 it is relatively cheap.
There's an overview of it on HiFi Pig, check it out.

 

[Roger_A]

Not sure if either of these come with a phono stage as standard.
However both are highly rated.

The Musical Fidelity A1 definitely has a phono stage for both MM and MC cartridges.

 

[rymidd]

I have purchased pre owned sugden a21 from a dealer but theirs is a bit of a crackle on one channel, the other channel just has a bit of normal transformer hum. the crackle is just about audible from my listening position 2 meters away. I may need to return the unit.

 

[plastic penguin]

Well the sugden certainly isn't short of rhythmic ability the drive is the question
for me it is the best amp ive ever owned and machete perfectly with my klipsch. Its stopped all my upgradeitus/GAS. everything else sounds dull by comparison.

It can certainly drive harder load speaker. but this is single ended so the wattage will drop as the load the increases.

Phono option is 300quid upgrade. and that can be done at any time.

Another option would be the newly re-release musical fidelity A1 alot cheaper slightly more watts but with demanding music will lean slightly into class B to give some dynamic punch so not 100% class A but stay 99% of the time.

Id see if you can arrange a demo

Think it is important to note the Sugden has 30 watts per channel, and although it punches above its power rating, it will run out of puff before the 70 watt Caspian.

 

[nopiano]

I have purchased pre owned sugden a21 from a dealer but theirs is a bit of a crackle on one channel, the other channel just has a bit of normal transformer hum. the crackle is just about audible from my listening position 2 meters away. I may need to return the unit.

Definitely return it. How disappointing for you. No properly installed and functioning amplifier should hum or crackle. Hope you get it fixed.

PS. Was it the one from Fanthorpes?

 

[twinkletoes]

Think it is important to note the Sugden has 30 watts per channel, and although it punches above its power rating, it will run out of puff before the 70 watt Caspian.

Never said it wouldn't chap. hence the "the drive is the question" comment.

Wattage depends which one you're talking about ,there are 3 a21's 2 of them sit at 23watts.

The SE is 30watts and is an entirely different sounding animal. Designed by the late Patrick (RIP) himself. much more direct and lively certainly isnt "warm' sounding. Many preferring the cheaper a21 signiture.

Yes it will run out of puff far quicker but I dont know the paper specs of the EB1, as long as there in the 90db range (there and there about) and sit around 6-8ohm I actually think you would be very surprised by it, many are. But yes careful partnering of equipment is important. the OP will know when its running out of puff the bass will start to disappear.

With the klipsch heresy's in toe it sounds gloriously rich and full and if playing loud is your thing well 100DB in room is very possible at around the 8pm position on the dial with a 1 volt line input from the qutest.

More than enough for me.

 

[twinkletoes]

I have purchased pre owned sugden a21 from a dealer but theirs is a bit of a crackle on one channel, the other channel just has a bit of normal transformer hum. the crackle is just about audible from my listening position 2 meters away. I may need to return the unit.

the hum is normal "ISH" you shouldn't be able to hear it at the seating position. and should be coming from both channels. if at all Id of thought.

Get them to do a quick service for the crackle often very easy to fix. Or send to sugden for a service for not to much cash. but your call on that.

Other than that did you enough the sound? did it drive your speakers well enough to levels you like?

 

[plastic penguin]

Never said it wouldn't chap. hence the "the drive is the question" comment.

Wattage depends which one you're talking about ,there are 3 a21's 2 of them sit at 23watts.

The SE is 30watts and is an entirely different sounding animal. Designed by the late Patrick (RIP) himself. much more direct and lively certainly isnt "warm' sounding. Many preferring the cheaper a21 signiture.

Yes it will run out of puff far quicker but I dont know the paper specs of the EB1, as long as there in the 90db range (there and there about) and sit around 6-8ohm I actually think you would be very surprised by it, many are. But yes careful partnering of equipment is important. the OP will know when its running out of puff the bass will start to disappear.

With the klipsch heresy's in toe it sounds gloriously rich and full and if playing loud is your thing well 100DB in room is very possible at around the 8pm position on the dial with a 1 volt line input from the qutest.

More than enough for me.

Just making a pertinent point old chap.

Not knocking Sugden in itself, I'm just anti Class A: they run too hot, you need to warm it up for at least 30 mins to hear them at their best and they too much electricity. Sounds a lot of hassle.

 

[Jasonovich]

Just making a pertinent point old chap.

Not knocking Sugden in itself, I'm just anti Class A: they run too hot, you need to warm it up for at least 30 mins to hear them at their best and they too much electricity. Sounds a lot of hassle.

You can have your cake and eat it! 🙂

I was most tempted by Atoll IN200 because it operates in class-A mode up to 40W before switching over to class AB—impressive engineering and if you have it on standby the components are suitably heated. Not many integrated amps out there do that.
My SingXer SA-1 head amp does the same, runs class A and at certain wattage, the circuits switch to AB.

In the end I settled for little brother IN100 second hand which was more palatable with my budget 🙂

 

[rymidd]

the hum is normal "ISH" you shouldn't be able to hear it at the seating position. and should be coming from both channels. if at all Id of thought.

Get them to do a quick service for the crackle often very easy to fix. Or send to sugden for a service for not to much cash. but your call on that.

Other than that did you enough the sound? did it drive your speakers well enough to levels you like?

The Sugden 21sig produced a big sound on my speakers , there's more bass,
more depth, better decay on notes.
Also quite foot tapping, tonal balance of the Sugden is a bit darker but
less forced than the Caspian . I paid 1.5K with phone stage in stealth black, it's a shame, as the static type noise is not normal it sounds like a mouse is scratching away in the speaker. I will be returning it but may decide to buy it again.