clasical music(its growing on me)

[matthewpiano]

Not a stock answer at all. I just don't rate Karajan's Beethoven, including the 9th. There is just no sense of the music's architecture. IMO there are many far more successful interpretations. Similarly, but for completely different reasons, I can't stand Roger Norrington's Beethoven either.

All personal opinion at the end of the day. One of the great things about classical music is that there are no 'best by far' recordings of any work. Part of the joy, quite apart from investigated new repertoire, is investigating new interpretations of familiar music.

 

[John Duncan]

matthewpiano:Not a stock answer at all. I just don't rate Karajan's Beethoven, including the 9th. There is just no sense of the music's architecture. IMO there are many far more successful interpretations. Similarly, but for completely different reasons, I can't stand Roger Norrington's Beethoven either.

All personal opinion at the end of the day. One of the great things about classical music is that there are no 'best by far' recordings of any work. Part of the joy, quite apart from investigated new repertoire, is investigating new interpretations of familiar music.

Tell me - how can a conductor make a performance "glossy" or "indulgent"? (serious question)

 

[Anonymous]

Tell me - how can a conductor make a performance "glossy" or "indulgent"? (serious question)

"Glossy - attractive in a kind of artifical way". Playing Bach with a full symphony orchestra, as per Stokowski, might be called glossy. It's kind of attractive, but certainly artificial as most scholars would say this is not what Bach intended.

"Indulgent - lenient, soft, given to excess". The music reviews are full of criticism of recordings where conductors have indulged themselves, eccentric tempi being a common example.

 

[tonky]

Don't forget - if it has not been previously mentioned - Swan Lake and The Nutcracker Suite. Swan Lake was my first introduction into the delights of classical music many years ago -

very very nice

 

[matthewpiano]

BrightSpark:

Tell me - how can a conductor make a performance "glossy" or "indulgent"? (serious question)

"Glossy - attractive in a kind of artifical way". Playing Bach with a full symphony orchestra, as per Stokowski, might be called glossy. It's kind of attractive, but certainly artificial as most scholars would say this is not what Bach intended.

"Indulgent - lenient, soft, given to excess". The music reviews are full of criticism of recordings where conductors have indulged themselves, eccentric tempi being a common example.

Absolutely what I mean!!

In the case of Karajan its about eccentric decisions regarding tempi etc. which result in the performance failing to give a sense of the over-arching architecture of the work.

Tonky - VERY good call on the Tchaikovsky ballet suites. Wonderful music.

 

[idc]

This thing about conductors and I am also being serious, how can they really make a difference? They either get the orchestra to play the notes in the right order at the right time or they don't. Otherwise its like that cartoon with Bugs Bunny conducting an orchestra and speeding them up and slowing them down.

 

[chebby]

idc:This thing about conductors and I am also being serious, how can they really make a difference? They either get the orchestra to play the notes in the right order at the right time or they don't. Otherwise its like that cartoon with Bugs Bunny conducting an orchestra and speeding them up and slowing them down.

Understandable given that all we see or hear is the final performance, the tip of the iceberg.

We don't get to see the rehearsals and all the work of the conductor in getting across his/her vision and interpretation rather like the director of a movie.

 

[ElectroMan]

I would suggest a good book before buying too many recordings - by this, I mean a general introductory guide to classical music, as it really does help to understand what a symphony etc actually is - if you don't know the structure it can be difficult to make much sense of if. A lot of music can be enjoyed even if you don't know anything about it, of course, but the more 'serious' stuff is more demanding.

I can remember the first serious classical record I bought (over 35 years ago!), Beethoven's seventh symphony. When I read the sleeve notes I was completely baffled (partly because I couldn't understand the jargon), but after reading an introductory book, it all started to make sense.

I would suggest something like this.

And as far as conductors are concerned, I'm sure others can explain it better, but apart from ensuring the orchestra is in time, and setting the tempo, they also decide the interpretation (emphasis on particular phrases, etc). There are loads of recordings of Beethoven's fifth symphony, but very few really good performances!

(Also, it's worth checking out YouTube before you buy anything, as there is an incredible amount of music of all kinds on there (most probably illegally, but you can check out the London Symphony Orchestra's YouTube channel.))

 

[manicm]

Matthew, not being argumentative but Karajan did 3 cycles of Beethoven, I specifically like these 3rd and 9th recordings from the 60s - heard these?

 

[matthewpiano]

Hi manicm, I know you're not being argumentative and I'm sure there are many people who would agree with you. To be honest its rather nice to see someone else being so passionate about recordings that they love.

I've heard all 3 of Karajan's Beethoven cycles and I don't like any of the recordings. I've got both of those recordings here but they never get listened to because I have several versions that I prefer.

The one Karajan disc that I do like is of him conducting Debussy's 'La Mer' and the 'Prelude a l'Apres Midi d'un faune'. The orchestral playing is beautiful and Karajan really seems to thrive in the exoticism of Debussy's music. In 'Prelude..' there is a real sense of the influence of the gamelan that Debussy heard at the Paris Exposition, and Karajan conveys it perfectly.

 

[manicm]

Thanks Matthew, I'm also trying to expand my classical horizons - what's La Mer like?

Heard Vaugh Williams - like a lot.

 

[Anonymous]

MPiano-BSpark, with regards to Karajan. do you mean full bodied sound-hence,glossy?(hope I worded it correctly} If thats what you mean, it's cool by me. I respect your opinion. Bach and Bthoven are two different people, in different eras, with separate styles of composition and therefor Bach could not be played with a full symphonie orchestra.Ask me to explain this, I couldn't tell you. Without Bach there would no Beethoven- a quote I heard. Getting back to HVK, he plays a high tempo compared to some other conductors and I can't remember which one.They just left me saying ' Ok let's get on with it' were as Karajan-to me- would be the correct or best interpretation of Bhoven's symphonies. I heard that Karajan 60's recordings are better than his 70's.Had the early disks but gave them away, so I'll have to acquire them again and compare the two. By the way I am in no way an expert on classical music and the opinions I express are from an amateur's point of view. Have a great day all ! Please excuse the choppy sentences .

 

[matthewpiano]

manicm:
Thanks Matthew, I'm also trying to expand my classical horizons - what's La Mer like?

Heard Vaugh Williams - like a lot.

La Mer is wonderful, such a beautiful evocation of the sea. When Debussy was at the height of his composing powers Paris was such a melting pot of cultural influences, and he soaked them up like a sponge. There is a real sense of wide-eyed wonder in his music, both with regard to those influences (such as the Javanese and other eastern music he came into contact with) and the power of nature. His use of orchestral colour in La Mer is awe-inspiring.

Its well worth exploring Debussy's piano music as well. 'Suite Bergamasque' is a great starting point as it includes the familiar 'Clair de Lune' which in the hands of a pianist like Kathryn Stott is divine. After that, the Preludes are a real treasure trove.

Which Vaughan-Williams have you been listening to?

 

[batonwielder]

It's so good to see so many people interested in classical music.

Matthewpiano's recommendations are stellar, as if I would have recommended myself.

Here's my very short list and a somewhat different approach. They are all modern recordings and will likely sound good.

Something dramatic: Beethoven Symphony No.5, Haitink, London Symphony Orchestra

Something beautiful: Brahms Violin Concerto, Repin, Chailly, Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra

Something extraordinary: Handel Arias, Lorraine Hunt Lieberson

 

[Anonymous]

The baroque is one of my passions, and of course we are in Handel's 250th annivesray year. I would absolutely agree with recommendation for Lorraine Hunt Lieberson, sadly missed. The CD AVIE AV0030 is must, for "As with the rosy steps the morn" if nothing else.

On the subject of recordings of the Beethoven symphonies, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Sir Charles Mackerras set on hyperion recorded with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra (1-8) , Philharmonia Orchestra & Edinburgh Festival Chorus (9).

'A decisive interpretation, reinforced by a near-flawless and totally
committed performance, and driven by an energy and vitality that
conductors half the age of the venerable octogenarian Mackerras could
only dream of emulating." - Gramaphone

I first heard these when broadcast live on BBC radio 3, it's a terrifc set.

Mackerras also won the BBC Music magazine disc of the year award for 2009 with his recording of Mozart symphonies 38-41 on Linn, this is also with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra. Another brilliant CD.

 

[manicm]

Matthew, I heard Vaughn Williams on radio! I definitely want to get his works, which is a good place to start?

Speaking of baroque - I got Palladians' The Devil's Trill (Tartini) on Linn - great music and recording - perfect night music.

 

[aliEnRIK]

Tarquinh:
Hilary Hahn - Betthoven's violin concerto + plays Bach (stunning)

Du Pr‚ - Elgar

Yo Yo Ma - Dvorak Cello Concerto

Juliet Fischer - Brahms Violin Concerto

Abbado - Prokfiev's Romeo and Juliet

Orff's Carmina Burana (play loud to find out how good you system is)

Sex Pistols - Never Mind the Bollocks (you'll need a break)

haha

Made me laugh that

 

[chebby]

BrightSpark:Mackerras also won the BBC Music magazine disc of the year award for 2009 with his recording of Mozart symphonies 38-41 on Linn, this is also with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra. Another brilliant CD.

Another Linn Records 'star' is the Handel Messiah by the Dunedin Consort. I got the vinyl box set for my birthday last year. (I also have the Philips CD set of the Messiah by the English Baroque soloists, Monteverdi choir and John Eliot Gardiner which is the 'benchmark' version.)

Anyone got any opinion on the recent LSO (Haitink) Beethoven Symphony set? (I have only ever heard the HVK box set that my father bought in the mid 1970s)

I would like a decent set but reviews for all the famous historic versions all seem to be very partisan, so they are all either 'appalling' or 'fantastic' and are reviewed by people who seem to have bought every version going just to compare them all! I thought the LSO/Haitink version looked promising as it is said to be impeccably recorded and there does not seem to be any historical 'baggage' attached to it or the conductor.

 

[matthewpiano]

The Haitink/LSO Beethoven cycle on LSO Live is superb. Haitink really understands the structure of these works, and there is plenty of energy and attention to detail throughout. Typically excellent recording by the Classic Sound engineers as well.

manicm - VW recommendations to come later when I've got the time to give it some thought, although the Symphony sets on Chandos and Warner are excellent.

 

[Anonymous]

The Handel Messiah by the Dunedin Consort is a fine recording, claiming to be "how it was performed at its first outing in Dublin in 1742".

But it was another choice that was the winner of BBC 3 recent CD review/Building a Library, Harry Christophers and the sixteen recording on CORO, which I really like. Apart from the marvelous Carolyn Sampson and Mark Padmore, you get the bonus of a third cd.

I've not listened to all of Haitkink/LSO Beethoven cycle, just 5, 6 and 7. But there's no doubt it wowed the critics and is up there with the best of recent recordings. It woud be an excellent choice.

 

[Anonymous]

chebby:
BBC Radio 3 and Gramophone magazine.

Monteverdi Choir, English Baroque Soloists, Sir John Eliot Gardiner and Mozart (or Handel or Bach) on the same CD label always does it for me.

...ooh, hit the nail on the head there for me. Bach Cantatas by Gardiner are fantastic. Radio 3 is addictive.

 

[Anonymous]

Listening to John Eliot Gardiner talking about his SDG recordings and other Bach performances that have been broadcast at Christmas on BBC 3 these last two years shows his utter and deep respect for these works:

"I believe that Bach's music carries a universal message of

hope and faith which can touch anybody, irrespective of their

culture, religion or musical knowledge."

"Taken together his cantatas comprise

some of the most consistently beautiful music ever to have

been composed, a corpus of work which counts as one of the

great glories of European music." - Sir John Eliot Gardiner

It takes time and dedication to understand even a little of the meaning of these works (the text is everything) and their musical genius. But even on a superficial level it's hard to deny their beauty.

As an alternative, it's worth listening to Masaaki Suzuki's and Philippe Herreweghe's Cantata recordings. They each conjure up their own vision of the divine, Soli Dei Gloria indeed.

 

[Anonymous]

manicm:
Matthew, I heard Vaughn Williams on radio! I definitely want to get his works, which is a good place to start?

Speaking of baroque - I got Palladians' The Devil's Trill (Tartini) on Linn - great music and recording - perfect night music.

Vaughan Williams: Symphonies Nos. 1-9 and Other Orchestral Works [Box Set]. Less than £20. Well worth buying.

For a short intro - Vaughan Williams: The Ultimate Collection.

 

[idc]

I do believe that Malcolm Arnold's Concerto for Group and Orchestra is a wonderful piece, full of passion and tempi and sh#t.....