CD Player v Computer

[The_Lhc]

Greeting Hi Fi enthusiasts

Not sure if this is a new topic or not but am thinking about the differences in sound quality between a mac book pro and the new audiolab 8200cd player - or perhaps more to the point  - why is there a difference?  Assuming that both will be utilising an audiolab Mdac and that speakers / headphones / cables are not part of the equation - then what are the remaining factors to be considered.  Is information on a cd lost when ripped to a hard drive in the highest quality format? Is a cd transport better than hard drive mechanism?  What  about a hi res audio file stored on flash drive?  So what exacty is the difference in the data stream before it hits the dac and why?

Certainly from a convenience point of view I would rather deal with files rather than hard copies and obviously the usual "listen to both and make your choice" rule applies in the end - but at this moment in time I'm more interested in the cold hard data stream and what the two machines do to it.  I am also minded to ask if we need cd players at all  - or compact discs for that matter.

Looking forward to your replies.  I know this subject could get a bit technical and I'm no genius but I'll try to keep up.

?

Fully networked at home. Music on HDD and all that.

Daily playback via Redbook AVI CD player however and no plans to change anytime soon.

Pretty sure that doesn't answer any of the questions he was asking but thanks for your time.

 

[Chris Firth]

Is information on a cd lost when ripped to a hard drive in the highest quality format?

Not if you rip it securely to a lossless format. As you have a Mac I suggest using XLD for ripping.

Is a cd transport better than hard drive mechanism?

No.

The data doesn't get read any better by a decent CD transport.

What about a hi res audio file stored on flash drive?

You've just jumped from comparing apples with apples to comparing them with oranges. The flash drive part is just data storage, so it's irrelevant.

So what exacty is the difference in the data stream before it hits the dac and why?

Bit depth and sample rate. CD is PCM with 16bits at 44.1KHz sample rate.

Hi-Res files usually have 24bits (greater potential dynamic range) and anything from 48KHz up to 192KHZ sample rate.

With both scenarios the production mastering is of far greater significance than the numbers involved - a great mastering will sound great at 16/44.1.

If it's poorly mastered then it will sound poor at 24/96000 - you can't polish a turd.

Certainly from a convenience point of view I would rather deal with files rather than hard copies and obviously the usual "listen to both and make your choice" rule applies in the end - but at this moment in time I'm more interested in the cold hard data stream and what the two machines do to it. I am also minded to ask if we need cd players at all - or compact discs for that matter.

I haven't had a CD player in my system for a very long time.

I still buy CDs, and rip them securely to my server - it's rare to be able to download music in CD quality, CD Baby being one exception.

Most download sites will offer data compressed data reduced versions. I'm thinking of iTunes (AAC files) and Amazon (MP3 files).

I don't see the point in buying data reduced downloaded versions when the CD usually costs less if it's a back catalogue item. I buy from Amazon's alternative sellers more often than I do Amazon.

 

[Flax]

Am beginning to think its all in the dac then - and some decent software - ta

 

[Chris Firth]

Am beginning to think its all in the dac then - and some decent software - ta

That's about right.

Get your computer to prioritise music playback too.

On Windows machines you'd use ASIO or WASAPI, dependent on the OS/hardware to do this.

I'm not sure if Mac gear needs anything, but it might be worth Googling.

 

[Flax]

makes for scary reading - best to reaserch any update in the forums before going ahead with it

 

[CnoEvil]

In case it's of interest, here is an easy to understand guide to computer audio:

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/

 

[Flax]

LOL

 

[MajorFubar]

You specifically mentioned sound quality, and I can't disagree with any of the views so far expressed which correctly advise you that computers don't necessarily sound worse that CDPs, there's far more to it than that. But one thing I have found, having migrated away from a CDP to streaming several years ago, is that I do sometimes miss the 'occasion' of getting out a CD and putting it on. No it's nowhere near the same pomp and circumstance attached to playing a record, but loosing all sense of tactilty and physical connection with the process took me a short while to get accustomed to.

 

[Flax]

greetings C F

was thinking more in terms of comparing the reading of data from hard drive / flash drive / cd rather than the storage medium itself - thought the flash might have the edge (less moving parts and all that).

Thanks

 

[Flax]

Isn't that a bit like missing winding a crank handle on the front of a car instead of just pushing the ignition button ? lol

 

[MajorFubar]

Isn't that a bit like missing winding a crank handle on the front of a car instead of just pushing the ignition button ? lol

Yes probably, and for similar reasons that many predominantly-young drivers will not ever understand, there remains a very strong enthusiastic following for vintage and classic cars, even though common sense and every technical factor imaginable tells their owners they should scrap their old cars and buy something modern. Sometimes there is a strong intangible attraction to something which is viewed as technically obsolete, sometimes even as a direct consequence of that perceived obsolescence. But you either 'get it' or you do not.

 

[Jota180]

greetings C F

was thinking more in terms of comparing the reading of data from hard drive / flash drive / cd rather than the storage medium itself - thought the flash might have the edge (less moving parts and all that).

Thanks

There is no edge because of Checksums.

"A checksum is an error-detection method in the transmitter computes a numerical value according to the number of set or unset bits in a message and sends it along with each message frame. At the receiver end, the same checksum function (formula) is applied to the message frame to retrieve the numerical value. If the received checksum value matches the sent value, the transmission is considered to be successful and error-free."

So your music is transmitted in packets, basically each song is broken down into smaller chunks and each chunk is given it's own checksum. The receiving end can check the integrity of each packet with it's own unique checksum, if it doesn't match the receiver requests that packet be sent again.

Your receiver (DAC or whatever) will never receive degraded signals in the way analogue equipment can. The digital bits are either transmitted 100% accurately or not at all, there is no inbetween. You will get music or silence. You wont get degraded music.

 

[Flax]

Yes , I hear what you say - my mac is entirely functional and it certainly does not evoke tha same response as were I to be using a georgeous valve amplifier. Actually now I think about it - "valve amp" would be a far more useful setting on my Audio Mdac than bloody "transient direct" or "optimum spectrum" or whatever.

Anyway I would like to thank all the guys who responded to my questions - it has been seriously educational

 

[ID.]

Actually now I think about it - "valve amp" would be a far more useful setting on my Audio Mdac than bloody "transient direct" or "optimum spectrum" or whatever.

Maybe time to start experimenting with valve buffers, etc. like this clicky to introduce a bit of tube flavour into your system.

 

[SteveR750]

I converted from CD to pc several years ago, as it was simply better sounding and more convenient. Agree with major though that there is some pleasure in owning and using cds but has nothing to do with sound quality. Get the right media player and as has been said it's then all about your choice of DAC though in my experience there's not massive differences between the cheapest and the eye watering expensive. Ebay is your friend here perhaps. One thing to bear in mind us the law has again changed regarding copying music, technically you cannot make copies of music even for personal use. This was changed years ago, but recently reverted presumably to protect the sales of downloaded tracks. Hopefully it won't lead to rip protected cds....