Cartridge assistance please

[BluePotato]

Evening all,

I've just bought a new system from my local (and very helpful) dealer. I've got a Sugden A21 amp with phono stage, Harbeth 30.1 speakers and a Rega Planar 3. I ordered an upgraded cartridge going for a Rega Exact but the cart had a fault. To ensure I have some music over the weekend the dealer has lent me a Rega Elyss cartridge which has had some use.

The kit is all ex-demo but only a few months old, none the less I expect a bit of beddinging time, only arrived on Saturday. Initial impressions of the Elyss are is its lacking dynamism, clarity and attack across the range, bass doesn't feel tight enough either.

Do you think the Exact is a good move to compliment the Sugden/Harbeth combo? It's been suggested an Audio Technica cart might be a better move to give what I want and complement the Sugdens warm character. How much of an impact can a cartridge have?

Aside from the above I'm excited to be at the start of my vinyl journey, I've picked up maybe 20-30 albums in prep over the last year or two - been great just sitting and listening rather than instantly prepping my next track as soon as I've started a tune playing.

Thanks

 

[Al ears]

Evening all,

I've just bought a new system from my local (and very helpful) dealer. I've got a Sugden A21 amp with phono stage, Harbeth 30.1 speakers and a Rega Planar 3. I ordered an upgraded cartridge going for a Rega Exact but the cart had a fault. To ensure I have some music over the weekend the dealer has lent me a Rega Elyss cartridge which has had some use.

The kit is all ex-demo but only a few months old, none the less I expect a bit of beddinging time, only arrived on Saturday. Initial impressions of the Elyss are is its lacking dynamism, clarity and attack across the range, bass doesn't feel tight enough either.

Do you think the Exact is a good move to compliment the Sugden/Harbeth combo? It's been suggested an Audio Technica cart might be a better move to give what I want and complement the Sugdens warm character. How much of an impact can a cartridge have?

Aside from the above I'm excited to be at the start of my vinyl journey, I've picked up maybe 20-30 albums in prep over the last year or two - been great just sitting and listening rather than instantly prepping my next track as soon as I've started a tune playing.

Thanks

I hope your new system gives you years of pleasure. Not a combination I have heard but one I know the individual components. The cartridge itself can be very vital to 'impact', it is the source after all.

One would question what your budget for a cartridge might be considering you are, hopefully, going to be reimbursed for the faulty Exact?

Personally I'd move away from the Regas.

 

[BluePotato]

Hi, yes I'm getting a replacement Exact this week. Once its installed theres no turning back so thought to just canvas a bit of opinion in here. Really don't want to spend more than £200.

Re the system, thanks! Me too, have spent more than originally planned to in the hope that it will last. Need to add a DAC at some point and I imagine there is an argument it will take a better turntable too but those things will have to wait a bit

 

[Al ears]

Hi, yes I'm getting a replacement Exact this week. Once its installed theres no turning back so thought to just canvas a bit of opinion in here. Really don't want to spend more than £200.

Re the system, thanks! Me too, have spent more than originally planned to in the hope that it will last. Need to add a DAC at some point and I imagine there is an argument it will take a better turntable too but those things will have to wait a bit

If you are getting a replacement Exact then I would stick with that for the meantime as biggest improvement will come with cartridges around £260. Either that or do you intend selling on the Exact?

 

[nopiano]

Definitely live with it for a few weeks before deciding anything. Playing around with speaker position will help, and you'll need the Harbeths tweeters at ear height.

But, yes, the cartridge makes a huge difference to the presentation overall. And you could easily spend two or three grand for the turntable in that system!

 

[BluePotato]

Quick update. Yeah so effectively I've paid up for the Exact but the dealer doesn't have any in (he had 3, all had the same fault). I've had another chat with him today and I've changed and gone for a Audio-Technica VM750SH instead of the Exact. The dealer rated this one better to work with my Sugden, Harbeth combo. New lineup apparently. Can't see much online in terms of feedback yet but sounds like it broadly compares to AT150MLX seems to be viewed very positively. I'll have to pay a bit extra for this one but as the OP mentions, really the amp and speakers could take a more expensive turntable so whilst I can't stretch to that at the moment hopefully as top cart will help bridge the gap in performance.

Bit of a punt but let's see, dealer coming to install in the morning - how long do carts normally take to burn in?

Excited, the 'smooth' Elys 2 with the 'smooth' Sugden definitely not giving me enough, pleasant and easy to listen but underwhelming ultimately.

 

[BluePotato]

nopiano - thanks for the response, speaker height is good. In terms of positioning, the dealer set the system up so for now have not moved the speakers but agree once happy with the cartridge, some fine tuning/tinkering of speaker placement will be next.

 

[Al ears]

Quick update. Yeah so effectively I've paid up for the Exact but the dealer doesn't have any in (he had 3, all had the same fault). I've had another chat with him today and I've changed and gone for a Audio-Technica VM750SH instead of the Exact. The dealer rated this one better to work with my Sugden, Harbeth combo. New lineup apparently. Can't see much online in terms of feedback yet but sounds like it broadly compares to AT150MLX seems to be viewed very positively. I'll have to pay a bit extra for this one but as the OP mentions, really the amp and speakers could take a more expensive turntable so whilst I can't stretch to that at the moment hopefully as top cart will help bridge the gap in performance.

Bit of a punt but let's see, dealer coming to install in the morning - how long do carts normally take to burn in?

Excited, the 'smooth' Elys 2 with the 'smooth' Sugden definitely not giving me enough, pleasant and easy to listen but underwhelming ultimately.

And there's me thinking you only had a £200 budget.... 🙂

From what I see that cart is going for about £389 but that AT150 is one I would have recommended anyway.

It would be interesting to know what the particular fault was with those Exacts as there have been posts about present Rega quality control issues which is one reason I suggested avoiding them.

In my experience cartridges take next to no time to burn in, as you put it. If you don't like it straight off it's not going to suddenly leap forward in performance in two days time

 

[Al ears]

Quick update. Yeah so effectively I've paid up for the Exact but the dealer doesn't have any in (he had 3, all had the same fault). I've had another chat with him today and I've changed and gone for a Audio-Technica VM750SH instead of the Exact. The dealer rated this one better to work with my Sugden, Harbeth combo. New lineup apparently. Can't see much online in terms of feedback yet but sounds like it broadly compares to AT150MLX seems to be viewed very positively. I'll have to pay a bit extra for this one but as the OP mentions, really the amp and speakers could take a more expensive turntable so whilst I can't stretch to that at the moment hopefully as top cart will help bridge the gap in performance.

Bit of a punt but let's see, dealer coming to install in the morning - how long do carts normally take to burn in?

Excited, the 'smooth' Elys 2 with the 'smooth' Sugden definitely not giving me enough, pleasant and easy to listen but underwhelming ultimately.

Apologies, double post....

 

[BluePotato]

*biggrin* This purchase is off the radar *mosking*

Effectively did this cart for £100 extra, must admit there is an element of impatience too, am off work this week so wanted to get some good listening time in, with the Exact I'd have to wait for it to arrive and then be fit. This sounds like another step up too so hopefully not disappointed. Hopefully the Planar 3 is good enough to show its talents?

The exact stylus was barely showing outside of the actual cartridge (if that makes sense) so it caught the vinyl when played.

 

[thescarletpronster]

The exact stylus was barely showing outside of the actual cartridge (if that makes sense) so it caught the vinyl when played.

How those cartridges got past Regas QC is amazing.

Might have got damaged in transit. Although how the dealer didn't spot it...

The Elys 2 that came fitted to my turntable also had a fault (the 'floor' was damaged, if I remember correctly, meaning a horrid distorted sound). The dealer had set the turntable up for me before bringing it to my house to instal it, so not sure how they missed that...

Hope you enjoy your new, much more expensive cartridge! I bet it'll sound great.

 

[Al ears]

The exact stylus was barely showing outside of the actual cartridge (if that makes sense) so it caught the vinyl when played.

How those cartridges got past Regas QC is amazing.

Might have got damaged in transit. Although how the dealer didn't spot it...

The Elys 2 that came fitted to my turntable also had a fault (the 'floor' was damaged, if I remember correctly, meaning a horrid distorted sound). The dealer had set the turntable up for me before bringing it to my house to instal it, so not sure how they missed that...

Hope you enjoy your new, much more expensive cartridge! I bet it'll sound great.

What, all three of them??

 

[thescarletpronster]

If they were in transit together, possibly. I remember seeing how 'fragile' parcels were sometimes treated by couriers when I worked in shops – literally thrown out of the back of vans on to the road, kicked up the road because arms were full of other packages.

It's probably not the reason, but I just threw it in there as it could be.

 

[Al ears]

If they were in transit together, possibly. I remember seeing how 'fragile' parcels were sometimes treated by couriers when I worked in shops – literally thrown out of the back of vans on to the road, kicked up the road because arms were full of other packages.

It's probably not the reason, but I just threw it in there as it could be.

I can see your point but knowing how these are shipped in plastic boxes I would assume any transit damage would have trashed the boxes rather than cause the effects mentioned by the OP, and that sounds like suspension failure if they were viewed straight out of the box, or too much downforce utilised if actually mounted and played.

I'd take a guess on the suspension myself.

 

[BluePotato]

Quick update - Audio Technica installed. Initial impressions are as would expect, completely different ball game to the Elys 2. Far more dynamic, feels like its digging a wider range of frequencies out of the recording. Everything crisp and clear - very pleased initially, if being critical could perhaps do with a touch more sweetness but that may well come yet. Guess I also need to factor in that whilst the equipment is ex demo it's probably still gelling too.

Now need to buy more vinyl!

 

[stevebrock]

Good old Rega - seriously the QC leaves a lot to be desired - only 1 item of Rega on my hifi rack now !

Glad you like the AT carts - I have an AT33 PTG II low output MC and its very nice

Edited by mods

 

[BluePotato]

Thanks Steve.

Am interested to see how the cartridge beds in, very good now, if i'm being critical I do feel that it will benefit from relaxing a little. There is the odd moment where it sounds a touch bright/brittle, only had about 7 hours listening time on it so far though, will see how it sounds after a couple of weeks play.

 

[nopiano]

Thanks Steve.

Am interested to see how the cartridge beds in, very good now, if i'm being critical I do feel that it will benefit from relaxing a little. There is the odd moment where it sounds a touch bright/brittle, only had about 7 hours listening time on it so far though, will see how it sounds after a couple of weeks play.

Looks like a good choice. AT have been making good cartridges for decades, and very dependable too. I'm sure it will mellow a little. I've never had a pickup that gets brighter with age.

Alternatively, carefully check the tracking weight with some decent scales, and add a tenth ot two-tenths of a gramme to the downforce, as long as you stay within the maximum recommended.

 

[Al ears]

Thanks Steve.

Am interested to see how the cartridge beds in, very good now, if i'm being critical I do feel that it will benefit from relaxing a little. There is the odd moment where it sounds a touch bright/brittle, only had about 7 hours listening time on it so far though, will see how it sounds after a couple of weeks play.

Looks like a good choice. AT have been making good cartridges for decades, and very dependable too. I'm sure it will mellow a little. I've never had a pickup that gets brighter with age.

Alternatively, carefully check the tracking weight with some decent scales, and add a tenth ot two-tenths of a gramme to the downforce, as long as you stay within the maximum recommended.

Sage advice. I have always found most cartridges work best towards the top end of their stated range of tracking weight.

Be aware also that VTA will have some effect on cartridge 'brightness' and although not easy on Rega decks this can be adjusted, if necessary, through the use of thin shims.

 

[paul darwin]

Blue potato,

Sorry you have had a problem with one of our cartridges, if you could let me know who the dealer is I will liaise with them directly. I find it hard to believe that they have had 3 consecutive Exact failures as I am looking at the returns rate on that cartridge and that would mean they have had every single failure worldwide for well over a month which would be statistically unlikely.

Al Ears, we only package the Planar 3 with an Elys 2 which is a £119 cartrdige (£75 as a package with the deck) so I am not sure where your comments come from with regards to "cheap and nasty" (surely just an opinion, obviously) and a "marketing ploy to sell to the uninitiated", perhaps you would be good enough to explain.

Paul Darwin

Rega Research

 

[stevebrock]

Merely I think they are very average to poor and for the same money through the MM range you can get better

This is just my opinion and that of many others

Also most of the alternatives to Rega MMs offer a replacement stylus so in the long run it's more economical as Rega stylus are not replacable

 

[paul darwin]

Hi Steve,

In the interest of clarification, whilst our stylus may not be replaceable per se we do offer a cartridge rebuild service which, in exchange for your old cartridge, gives you an as new cartidge with brand new cantilever, stylus and fully serviced for a significant discount to the new cartridge price. This gives arguably better value than simply just a stylus replacement.

Paul Darwin

Rega Research

 

[stevebrock]

Paul

I always admire you for coming on this forum and adding your input

I have had excellent service from Rega in the past - this is not a Rega bashing BTW as I do own an RP8 that I preferred over my old Gyro.

The rebuild service you offer isnt that cost effective

New Elys 2 £119

rebuild £79

The Nagaoka MP110 can be bought from Juno for £111.99

also the replacement stylus can be purchased for £59.99 but does not negate the need for the cart to be sent away - which is inconvenience for a week

The Nagaoka MP110 is a better cart IMO than the Elys2

 

[Al ears]

*biggrin* This purchase is off the radar *mosking*

Effectively did this cart for £100 extra, must admit there is an element of impatience too, am off work this week so wanted to get some good listening time in, with the Exact I'd have to wait for it to arrive and then be fit. This sounds like another step up too so hopefully not disappointed. Hopefully the Planar 3 is good enough to show its talents?

The exact stylus was barely showing outside of the actual cartridge (if that makes sense) so it caught the vinyl when played.

How those cartridges got past Regas QC is amazing.

Your current choice is a very good one and should match the Planar 3 / tonearm very well. I'll be surprised if you don't like it. As an ex original Planar 3/ RB300 owner I feel cartridges in this price range bring out the very best in the deck and cringe when they bring them out pre fitted with some cheap and nasty cartridge just to sell more to the uninitiated. Although I understand the marketing element it would seem to go against the ethos of the said Roy Gandy, why perfect a deck and tonearm on to lower it's obvious potential by fitting a sixty quid cartridge? Anyway enough of my ramblings. Enjoy.