Question Can KEF Q5 Tweeters be tamed ?

[aversaurus]

I really like the look of the Linton's.
And the reviews are good but I'm very biased

 

[Din5]

Do you have a set of Lintons ?
I think What HiFi reviewed them using an Elex-r and found them favourable.

 

[Tinman1952]

my idea that a little tape applied may be sufficient to reduce the ring , after lots of experimentation of course.

Please don’t do this…..
1. It won’t work.
2. To use a technical term …you will bu**er it!
Thousands of pounds worth of sophisticated modelling software is used to design these tweeters. The precise weight and the pistonic effects of the tweeter are calculated to create the desired frequency response.
Also with KEF UniQ the airflow around the wave guide is extremely important.

 

[Din5]

Ok, thanks for your advice, I'll leave alone !

 

[Tinman1952]

Ok, thanks for your advice, I'll leave alone !

Phew!
It should be the first HiFi commandment…..
Never put your finger on a tweeter! 🙂

 

[Din5]

How do you like your Evo4.2's ?

 

[Tinman1952]

"Schiit loki" , I'd rather not add any tone controls or further boxes to my system.... but good to know about it though !
Thanks.

I’ve never understood this aversion to tone controls over the last 20 years or so (mostly by the HiFi press) when all professional sound engineers EQ everything!
It seems people would rather mess around with interconnects and speaker cables to do precisely this…rather than use a device which is designed to do it properly.
Quad’s famous ‘tilt’ control and Yamaha’s tone controls are well respected.
Jason Stoddard has taken great pains to design the Loki to be ‘tone controls done right’.
Even the famous BBC monitors had the ‘BBC dip’ built into their design…a tone control! 🙂

 

[Tinman1952]

How do you like your Evo4.2's ?

Wonderful! 😁
Unlike the Quads (I have owned the S2 in the past) they don’t use a ribbon tweeter (which I found a bit too bright) but an Air Motion Transformer tweeter usually found in much more expensive speakers.
To my ears you get all the detail and a huge soundstage but without any harshness. 👍

 

[Din5]

Hi, they sound good, especially if no harshness to the treble, I wonder how they would sound with an Rega Elex-r ? think it can be slightly clinical at times, so maybe I need a warmish sound to counter this ? Suppose the Evo 4.3 will have the same sound signature but reach a little deeper in the bass ?..... Ideally I want another floor stander speaker,

 

[Deleted member 116933]

@Din5 As i suggested in another post id highly suggest you do all the free things first before committing to spending money. You could end up with the same problem again and the only thing you have changed is the weight of your wallet.

Find out if your room actually has a problem first.

Invest a mic if you have to. Heck if you want to spend money, invest in to a room correction device or amp with room correction like a NAD product with dirac it will be a far better investment than swapping speakers out. EQ the room and speakers deficiency's right of the equation heck you can even do your own custom curve and tame the high energy to your liking. Though not a one-stop-shop you still need a decent foundation for it to work well.

 

[manicm]

I’ve never understood this aversion to tone controls over the last 20 years or so (mostly by the HiFi press) when all professional sound engineers EQ everything!
It seems people would rather mess around with interconnects and speaker cables to do precisely this…rather than use a device which is designed to do it properly.
Quad’s famous ‘tilt’ control and Yamaha’s tone controls are well respected.
Jason Stoddard has taken great pains to design the Loki to be ‘tone controls done right’.
Even the famous BBC monitors had the ‘BBC dip’ built into their design…a tone control! 🙂

Because in my experience tone controls have always been a compromise. I’m still very surprised to see owners cram large speakers in small UK living rooms. In the first place I would get smaller speakers and a subwoofer.

 

[andybebbs]

I have the q550 speakers paired with a rega elicit-r and i do agree with you the tops give me a head ache after about 30 mins of listening i just find them to harsh so looking at changing things myself when the cash allows and going to look at some wharefdale evo 4.3 or fyne f501 to see what there like. I also agree that your room makes a difference but as i have limited space its not possible for them to go anywhere else so other than change the angle they toe in or not so that`s where they got to go. you might try getting the wharfedale evo`s on loan and see what that sounds like.

 

[Tinman1952]

I have the q550 speakers paired with a rega elicit-r and i do agree with you the tops give me a head ache after about 30 mins of listening i just find them to harsh so looking at changing things myself when the cash allows and going to look at some wharefdale evo 4.3 or fyne f501 to see what there like. I also agree that your room makes a difference but as i have limited space its not possible for them to go anywhere else so other than change the angle they toe in or not so that`s where they got to go. you might try getting the wharfedale evo`s on loan and see what that sounds like.

A much cheaper solution to your problem. People who turn their nose up at tone controls have never really tried them…

Schiit Audio Reinvents Tone Control with New Loki Mini+ Equalizer

Schiit Audio announced availability of the new Loki Mini+ 4-band equalizer - a simple design for tone control, which the company successfully brought back with the original Loki Mini equalizer, enabling anyone to adjust their speakers or headphones' response without degrading the audio. The new...

audioxpress.com

 

[andybebbs]

Interesting will have a read up tinman, do you have one? and how does it connect to a rega elicit-r

 

[Tinman1952]

Interesting will have a read up tinman, do you have one? and how does it connect to a rega elicit-r

Yes I had the original one when I had my KEF LS50s. Worked very well. I could bump up the bass a little and tame the ‘presence ‘ region on the KEFs with no loss of definition or detail.
You just connect it between your source and amplifier with analogue interconnects.

 

[andybebbs]

Yes I had the original one when I had my KEF LS50s. Worked very well. I could bump up the bass a little and tame the ‘presence ‘ region on the KEFs with no loss of definition or detail.
You just connect it between your source and amplifier with analogue interconnects.

if the source is a rega p3 how do you get the loki to work, sorry if i`m acting dumb but don`t see how i can use it with my rega amp.
just watched this interesting.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTAbjMK1_DQ&ab_channel=ThatBrony

 

[Tinman1952]

if the source is a rega p3 how do you get the loki to work, sorry if i`m acting dumb but don`t see how i can use it with my rega amp.
just watched this interesting.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTAbjMK1_DQ&ab_channel=ThatBrony

Not dumb at all. Obviously you could connect between your Yamaha CD/network player and amp ok but if you are using the internal phono stage of the amp then I don’t see how you could insert the Loki in the signal path. Unless you could use the ‘record out‘ connection as a ‘tape loop’ kind of connection. But I’m honestly not sure if this would work…..
An external phono stage would work of course.

 

[Din5]

I have the q550 speakers paired with a rega elicit-r and i do agree with you the tops give me a head ache after about 30 mins of listening i just find them to harsh so looking at changing things myself when the cash allows and going to look at some wharefdale evo 4.3 or fyne f501 to see what there like. I also agree that your room makes a difference but as i have limited space its not possible for them to go anywhere else so other than change the angle they toe in or not so that`s where they got to go. you might try getting the wharfedale evo`s on loan and see what that sounds like.

Hi, Andybebbs,
I can't find any Wharfedale dealers in my area so it's unlikely I can audition the EVO 4.3, there are almost no reviews but I guess the tone for mid and high frequency will be the same as for the Evo 4.2 if they are using the same drivers .. The only review I can find is this one WHARFEDALE EVO 4.3 Review - Dome Alone « 7Review
Tinman1952 above says the 4.2 sounds great with no harshness. I'm not happy with the idea of changing to speakers that I have no heard before, the only ones I can vouch for are the Dali Oberon 5, which really were very good with the Elex-R. If I want to try the EVO4.3 I suppose I could order them via Richer Sounds and if the sound does not suit, they also have the Oberons..I'm sure they would swap them over.

All, - I don't want to scrap my Elex-r and replace with an amp that has tone controls just because the speakers may be a slight missmatch. I've already got enough additional boxes on my rack one for the speed control for the RP6, and a Project phono box for headphones, and a Komplete Audio 2 box for making digital recordings from the analogue outputs on the Elex-R.

 

[Al ears]

See

Hi, Andybebbs,
I can't find any Wharfedale dealers in my area so it's unlikely I can audition the EVO 4.3, there are almost no reviews but I guess the tone for mid and high frequency will be the same as for the Evo 4.2 if they are using the same drivers .. The only review I can find is this one WHARFEDALE EVO 4.3 Review - Dome Alone « 7Review
Tinman1952 above says the 4.2 sounds great with no harshness. I'm not happy with the idea of changing to speakers that I have no heard before, the only ones I can vouch for are the Dali Oberon 5, which really were very good with the Elex-R. If I want to try the EVO4.3 I suppose I could order them via Richer Sounds and if the sound does not suit, they also have the Oberons..I'm sure they would swap them over.

All, - I don't want to scrap my Elex-r and replace with an amp that has tone controls just because the speakers may be a slight missmatch. I've already got enough additional boxes on my rack one for the speed control for the RP6, and a Project phono box for headphones, and a Komplete Audio 2 box for making digital recordings from the analogue outputs on the Elex-R.

See also WhatHifi Evo 4.4 review

 

[Din5]

See

See also WhatHifi Evo 4.4 review

Hi All,,
I have now tried adjusting my 14' x 19' room, moved the table and closed curtains, arranged couch and chairs, considered any reflection points etc, but I have not been able to tame the rather bright high mid/ treble that I am experiencing with my Elex-R / KEF Q5 combination. I think although they are really great speakers, they are not a good pairing with the rather lean ultra clear sound of my Elex-R (possibly due to the UniQ driver/tweeter).

Maybe someone has some experience of warmish speakers that may work well with my Elex-R ? ..Floor or stand mount, £1200 tops..
I have been researching some "warmish"speaker reviews on-line and my limited knowledge leads me to :-
Dali Oberon 5, Quad S4, Wharfedale Evo 4.3, Wharfedale Linton Heritage 85, . The Wharfedale Evo4.4 is probably too tall. I would like to keep the speaker height below 1 meter if possible ( domestic approval)..
Which ones from the above list are warm ?
I can't find any dealers locally that stock these speakers, but I have heard the Oberons.
Any suggestions or thought are very welcome.

Many thanks again.

 

[Tinman1952]

Hi All,,
I have now tried adjusting my 14' x 19' room, moved the table and closed curtains, arranged couch and chairs, considered any reflection points etc, but I have not been able to tame the rather bright high mid/ treble that I am experiencing with my Elex-R / KEF Q5 combination. I think although they are really great speakers, they are not a good pairing with the rather lean ultra clear sound of my Elex-R (possibly due to the UniQ driver/tweeter).

Maybe someone has some experience of warmish speakers that may work well with my Elex-R ? ..Floor or stand mount, £1200 tops..
I have been researching some "warmish"speaker reviews on-line and my limited knowledge leads me to :-
Dali Oberon 5, Quad S4, Wharfedale Evo 4.3, Wharfedale Linton Heritage 85, . The Wharfedale Evo4.4 is probably too tall. I would like to keep the speaker height below 1 meter if possible ( domestic approval)..
Which ones from the above list are warm ?
I can't find any dealers locally that stock these speakers, but I have heard the Oberons.
Any suggestions or thought are very welcome.

Many thanks again.

All four are great speakers. I too did not get on with the KEF tweeter and it’s raised treble output. The Wharfedales and Dali would be my pick. The Quads are lovely speakers but that ribbon tweeter is extremely detailed and again I found it too fatiguing.

 

[Din5]

Hi Tinman, - Thanks for your feedback, you seem to think the same as I do about that KEF tweeter, but I will say it can fair blast out a realistic trumpet !. All I need to do is try to filter down which is best betweewn the Wharfedale Evo's and Linton and the Dali Oberon. Pity I can't hear them, only the Oberon which I already know the sound of.
All -Any other thoughts are welcome, as I must choose a warmer speaker with a non sharp tweeter.

 

[Din5]

All four are great speakers. I too did not get on with the KEF tweeter and it’s raised treble output. The Wharfedales and Dali would be my pick. The Quads are lovely speakers but that ribbon tweeter is extremely detailed and again I found it too fatiguing.

Hi All,
Well I have tweaked my room furnishings and moved my speaker back towards the rear wall. The sound is now more acceptable and not so bright. I think the main issue arises with playing certain recordings, some seem harsh/bright, whereas others are really very good indeed !.
I think the KEF Q5's bring a special clear sound into the equation, and although I could change to warmer speakers, I wouldn't like to lose the airyness and scale that I am getting from my system (Elex-R/ RP6 & Exact cart/ Arcam CDS50) . It may be interesting to compare my speakers in store, probably against the Oberon 5's , but with the good sound that I am getting now it will be difficult to justify the change.
Thanks for all your help, I'll let you know if I do an in-store comparison and my findings.
Cheers..

 

[Edbostan]

I have a pair of iq10s, the baby of the group and find the tweeter strident or some may say revealing. I find ABBA quite tiring to listen to but Gregory Porter or Diane Krall recordings satisfying. It depends on the quality of the recordings. For example Memory by Elaine Paige or the harmonising of the Eagles on New Kid in Town excites that tweeter which was describes by one HiFi mag as chromium plated. I guess every speaker has weaknesses and strengths. Playing Stranger on the Shore by Acker Bilk his clarinet sounds magic.

 

[Din5]

Hi Edbostan, I tend to agree with you, these tweeters can be excellent in many regards or slightly harsh with poor recordings. Jazz, classical, Diana Krall all sound great . I noticed some harshness when playing Elaine Page- Memory too, but I also noticed it when I took the same CD to audition the great Dali Oberon 5- the same harshness at certain notes was still there. Rearranging my room furnishings has helped a bit, but the biggest improvement has been to not toe-in the speakers towards my listening chair. I have my speakers about 40cm from the rear wall and pointing down the room at 90deg to the rear wall with decent results.