CABLING and ACCESSORIES - Let the flames begin.

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anton90125"]Or our you going to say Guinness tastes the same in England as well as Ireland![/quote]

I've never been to Ireland and I feel I really must sometime. I tried Caffreys here and yes, it's smooth, yes, it's quaffable but...is it beer??

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="skyfi"]This is a bunch of snake oil, and if you think that they work better than any other set of copper wires of the same gauge then you are an idiot.[/quote]

Is there any reason to be so insulting and call people an idiot.

[quote user="skyfi"]Wires have completely real impedance, which means that the power factor across them is unity, and they can not alter the phase of the signal across them. It would be bad if they somehow developed inductance or capacitance, because then they would become filters, blocking out a specific range of the sound spectrum. [/quote]

NO! Wire do have an Inductance and a Capacitance ( which is why some speaker wires can upset Naim amps). Since you state your opinion in such a blanket fashion then there should be no problem with push in high frequency signals (100K upwards) down a wire without running into cable ringing and signal reflections etc.. And therefore there is no such thing as Characteristic impedance (Sqrroot(Inductance/Capacitance)).

[quote user="skyfi"]Speed? Like the speed of light speeds up?[/quote]

Is the C constant? See. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6092.html

Actually signal propagation is via an EM field which travels down(around) the cable at roughly 2/3 of C.

ALL scientific theory is open to question by definition. Its is the most important part of scientific methodology.

What kind of electrical engineer are you -by the way?

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Nigel Proctor"][quote user="Anton90125"]Or our you going to say Guinness tastes the same in England as well as Ireland![/quote]

I've never been to Ireland and I feel I really must sometime. I tried Caffreys here and yes, it's smooth, yes, it's quaffable but...is it beer??[/quote]

Who said it was? Its a drink I like. I also like Directors Bitter. I also recommend going to Brussels, they have some fine beers there.

 

[Anonymous]

How many names is he posting under at the moment?

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="jimwall"]
I have experienced personally that cables make a difference. I've not explored lots of different price points but the fact that I observe a difference between two cables proves to my satisfaction that cables make a difference, the rest is arguing over details.

Without wishing to feed too much to the wire-fetish religious nuts... as an electrical engineer you should be aware that most electrical applications require something called a circuit - that is two wires, one which carries electrons in one direction and another to return them. I.e. an interconnect isn't a wire, it's two wires, separated by an insulator. When I did physics at school we called such a configuration a capacitor. If they're twisted they will also constitute an inductor. You might like to think about this before making such absolute statements as "completely real impedence". Completely is a very, very strong word in this context.

And electricity does not travel at the speed of light - according to relativity it can't can it? For crying out loud even the speed of light varies accoring to the medium it's travelling in (hence refraction).
[/quote]

Nice one!

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="jimwall"]How many names is he posting under at the moment?[/quote]

I don't think it was him. There are too many elementary physical errors in his posting

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anton90125"]I also like Directors Bitter.[/quote]

I haven't had a pint of that for years. Very nice. :0} I just love Fuller's ales but can't find them very often.

 

[Anonymous]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. London Pride.

 

[Anonymous]

Yep, I think you're right and stand corrected. Apologies to our malodorous octogenarian friend.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Solomon1"][quote user="Graham_Thomas"]I think there is no real difference - and I've been up to Chrod Anthem and back down again with many makes along the way - it is snake oil or for rich playboys to say "guess how much that interceonnect was".[/quote]

To my astonishment I just found this post: http://whathifi.com/forums/p/2495/27716.aspx#27716 If you can't hear the difference, what on earth are you then doing in this 250 pound chord interconnect competition???????????????????[/quote]

Well, I wouldn't have to spend £250 would I...

It would also make a nice gift for someone.

I could sell it to you for £200 if I win it.................

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="matthewpiano"][quote user="Graham_Thomas"]
Er, yes:

https://www.virtualdynamics.ca/content.php?id=200&secondary_id=39

Half price interconnect at $3000 lol.

I think there is no real difference - and I've been up to Chord Anthem and back down again with many makes along the way - it is snake oil or for rich playboys to say "guess how much that interconnect was".

Monitor Audio make their own speaker cable - Pureflow - at around £5.00 a metre - that says it all really IMHO.

[/quote]

Thats fine, and I'm sure its very decent, but Monitor Audio are just one manufacturer and certainly don't write the last word on hi-fi, or even speakers for that matter. The fact that they make Pureflow doesn't make it the best or only way. Alongside the great speakers there are the horrid ipod docks that they put their name to for a start.[/quote]

True, it's all subjective really. However, I like mine, and you no doubt like yours, and Thaiman likes his - so we're all happy!

However, the vitriol in some of these posts is staggering for and against - probably because those that have expensive interconnects and cabling feel a need to justify their cost based on some irrational sliding scale return on investment - and pure jealousy from those that cannot afford them! [I'm only joking by the way].....

 

[matthewpiano]

As with most of these debates I think there is a good middle line to be trodden which involves keeping cable and accessory expenditure in perspective within the overall cost of a system. In a well balanced budget system, spending about £40 each on interconnects and £3-£7 per metre on speaker cable is in proportion and will help to get the best out of the electronics and speakers. Spending more within that system would probably not pay much greater dividends. Accepting this results in making the most of the equipment you have spent your hard earned money on whilst leaving what is left to spend on the actual music software to play on the system. I know people who have spent thousands on hi-fi and associated cables/accessories but only possess a handful of albums and don't even extend this by taking advantage of streaming and/or downloading (neither of which appeal to me but which are increasingly valuable formats for some music lovers). Now that is where it all becomes a bit pointless IMO.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Nigel Proctor"][quote user="Fraziel"]My comment about separates being all the same was sarcastic and intended to make a point about just how stupid the "all interconnects sound the same and mains cables dont work" comments have been. [/quote] Nobody has ever demonstrated that interconnects and mains leads really sound different. I can't hear any difference.[/quote]

what is your system and current cabling?

 

[Andrew Everard]

One of these days I'm just going to post a thread entitled 'Cable' with no content, and see how long it takes for the mudslinging to start

 

[nads]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
One of these days I'm just going to post a thread entitled 'Cable' with no content, and see how long it takes for the mudslinging to start

[/quote]

Dont think it would take long at all.

Well i have heard the difference from the bog standard cables to what i have now. Do not think i want to spend more than i have so will not be. But the difference was marked.

 

[Andrew Everard]

As I've always said, if you're happy you can hear/see the difference, spend the money; if you can see/hear no difference, or have a deep-rooted belief that such things can't make a difference, then feel smug at how much money you've saved.

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
As I've always said, if you're happy you can hear/see the difference, spend the money; if you can see/hear no difference, or have a deep-rooted belief that such things can't make a difference, then feel smug at how much money you've saved.
[/quote]

Wise Words!

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="Anton90125"][quote user="Andrew Everard"]
As I've always said, if you're happy you can hear/see the difference, spend the money; if you can see/hear no difference, or have a deep-rooted belief that such things can't make a difference, then feel smug at how much money you've saved.
[/quote]

Wise Words!
[/quote]

The longer you in this world, the wiser you get......no one as wise as Mr.E

 

[Anonymous]

Well, with 92 replies and comments, mostly constructive, I have slightly changed my cabling views, and wrong or right, my new views a
e as follows.

Sound quality CAN be improved by upgrading the interconnects that usually come free with the product. However, I do believe that there is a price point where any further improvement is either so negligable or non-existant, that any further upgrade is pointless and a waste of money. This "price point" would reflect the overall budget of the components they are connecting but I would be astonished if any improvement could be noticed on anything once the £100/m had been reached.

For speaker cable, I believe conductor core thickness, shielding, purity, and connection security are the only really relevant factors. Using "exotic" materials is simply a way of using thinner core material for the same resistance and as for directional cable etc, I think this is nonsense. I believe there is an arguement for bi-wiring although in my experience, I heard no improvement doing so.

I believe that mains filtering and aftermarket mains lead is total tosh unless you use a diesel generator to power your home, or your family is using an arc welder in the next room! This is a sales opportunity from manufacturers to sell to a previously untapped market and is all hype. They have seen people prepared to pay silly money for other cabling and realised they could sell this too.

I would like to thank all contributors to this thread and wish you all a very happy Christmas.

Gerry.

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="Oldskool"]but I would be astonished if any improvement could be noticed on anything once
the £100/m had been reached.[/quote]

I think very differently! The under £100 cables sound almost the same and only when you get to a very well designed, well engineer cables (which cost far too much!!) that when the improvement is paramount!

 

[Anton90125]

Now you have come to some conclusion, why don't you go out and test it by doing some listening. There is still room for some more revelations

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Oldskool"]Well, with 92 replies and comments, mostly constructive, I have slightly changed my cabling views, and wrong or right, my new views a
e as follows.

Sound quality CAN be improved by upgrading the interconnects that usually come free with the product. However, I do believe that there is a price point where any further improvement is either so negligable or non-existant, that any further upgrade is pointless and a waste of money. This "price point" would reflect the overall budget of the components they are connecting but I would be astonished if any improvement could be noticed on anything once the £100/m had been reached.
For speaker cable, I believe conductor core thickness, shielding, purity, and connection security are the only really relevant factors. Using "exotic" materials is simply a way of using thinner core material for the same resistance and as for directional cable etc, I think this is nonsense. I believe there is an arguement for bi-wiring although in my experience, I heard no improvement doing so.
I believe that mains filtering and aftermarket mains lead is total tosh unless you use a diesel generator to power your home, or your family is using an arc welder in the next room! This is a sales opportunity from manufacturers to sell to a previously untapped market and is all hype. They have seen people prepared to pay silly money for other cabling and realised they could sell this too.
I would like to thank all contributors to this thread and wish you all a very happy Christmas.
Gerry.
[/quote]

Yes, it got a lot to do with your overall system quality.A friend borrowed my van den hul integration and it made his system sound worse as it was too transparent and showed up the limitations of his cd player.However, i had a qed silver spiral which costs about £90.the van den hul , which costs about £125 and originally nearly £200, was in a different league.the qed sounded really rough and grainy in the treble and muddy in the midrange in comparison.And thats just on my equipment so on high end stuff there should be marked differences with expensive cables.

As for bi wiring,It is bi amping that makes the difference.Bi wiring will often only make a very subtle difference and in many cases not at all.

I am utterly convinced mains cables work and so is everyone else i know who is into hi fi. I have heard the difference and even on a £25 cable from russ andrews the difference can be dramatic.On their £50 cables the difference can be unbelievable.Almost to the extent that it can make your system sound like you have changed a component. Have you actually demo'd any?

 

[Anonymous]

I think that's a fairly fine summary overall of my views, although I'm more open-minded about the mains filtering (less so the cables) - mostly because I find it hard to justify telling other people what they hear when they use them.

The big point I think though is that, as with all things, price isn't always an indicator of quality, and even if it were, there's always the law of diminishing returns - to double the quality costs a lot more than double the price.

And a very happy Christmas to all as well.

 

[Clare Newsome]

[quote user="jimwall"]
price isn't always an indicator of quality,

[/quote]

Which is why we always review on a performance-per-pound basis.

Season's greetings all round, everyone (not that we're shutting up shop here just yet!)

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="jimwall"]price isn't always an indicator of quality[/quote]

I agree (gotham, Chords cobra etc..) but most well engineer and high build qaulity stuffs are cost more in general (not just hifi)