Burn in

[Alec]

Yeah, black holes, dark matter, supernovae, power from nuclear fusion... etc. What a yawn to a 13 year-old physics student when compared to the excitement of corroding copper and it's adverse effects on an audio signal!

Yeah to be fair at the time I was far more interested in chatting up the girls in my class and learning about a different kind of physics to bother listening to what the teacher was saying about capacitance resistance and inductance.

I'm slightly disappointed that your original post was moderated, meaning I couldn't make any reference to directionality.

However, my point was that whilst resistance etc is of course discussed at GCSE, its potential to change behaviour given different circumstances (stress, temperature, whatever) is more university level...

Anyway, burn-in of cables is b-llocks. Can we move on?

In this thread? Are mods not highlighted anymore?

 

[The_Lhc]

Yeah to be fair at the time I was far more interested in chatting up the girls in my class and learning about a different kind of physics

Biology you mean.

 

[steve_1979]

I'm slightly disappointed that your original post was moderated, meaning I couldn't make any reference to directionality.

Directionality LOL.

Sorry about that post JD. Bet it made you giggle though.

However, my point was that whilst resistance etc is of course discussed at GCSE, its potential to change behaviour given different circumstances (stress, temperature, whatever) is more university level...

To be fair I think you're probably right there. My bad.

Anyway, burn-in of cables is b-llocks. Can we move on?

+1 x 1,000,000

Pleeeese people let's move on. Cable burn in doesn't exist. ray:

 

[John Duncan]

In this thread? Are mods not highlighted anymore?

Only if it's an in-line mod/edit as opposed to the whole post being unpublished for being too unpleasant to contemplate. I still get to see the unpublished ones though.

 

[BigH]

Anyway, burn-in of cables is b-llocks. Can we move on?

Naim cable is directional, so whats that say?

 

[Covenanter]

Anyway, burn-in of cables is b-llocks. Can we move on?

Naim cable is directional, so whats that say?

It says that their marketing people are working hard.

Chris

 

[John Duncan]

Anyway, burn-in of cables is b-llocks. Can we move on?

Naim cable is directional, so whats that say?

It says that Naim are talking b-llocks.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

More importantly, the tyres on pushbikes are directional, and I put the front one on the wrong way round a few months ago.

Would that explain why it keeps getting punctures?

 

[Alec]

Anyway, burn-in of cables is b-llocks. Can we move on?

Naim cable is directional, so whats that say?

It says that their marketing people are working hard.

Chris

Hardly working, more like.

 

[MakkaPakka]

More importantly, the tyres on pushbikes are directional, and I put the front one on the wrong way round a few months ago.

Would that explain why it keeps getting punctures?

Quite possibly though it depends on the tyre type. The tread can be designed to shed water so if it's facing the wrong way you could be scooping up debris.

If you kept getting punctures I'm surprised you didn't put it back on the right way in the course of re-fitting it or at least noticed mis-matching logos. Mind you, I once managed to fit a tyre and completely forgot about putting any rim tape in which had predictable consequences.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Thanks makka. These are Contis, and the treads are only about 1mm deep. You're right, though, I've probably had them on every way, never noticed the arrow until the most recent episode.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Naim amps recommend naim cable to match inductance etc. Whatever that means ?? Maybe their amps use directional inductance !

 

[busb]

Burn-in - that's old hat! Cryogenic treatment is where it's at! Ironically, cooling cables too quickly, damages them (micro-fractures) & reportedly muddies the sound to boot.

The only time I've noticed any sort of running in effect was with my M-DAC that sounded a little harsh for a couple of weeks from new. Many owners have reported the same. The designer, John Westlake, acknowledges this run-in period & suggests it's due to the Aluminium organic electrolytic capacitors. They have very low ESR or do after having a DC voltage across them for a good while. The advice given was to leave the M-DAC powered up for the 1st couple of weeks rather than needing to play music through it for that time. Speakers requiring a bedding in period is not very controversial due to the compliance of the suspension material changing.

As for Naim cables being directional, there was a thread about this elsewhere. Nain supposedly stated that their cables were only directional after the insulation was moulded over the copper. I read this statement somewhat differently than intended - presuming Naim ever said it that is!

 

[chebby]

As for Naim cables being directional...

I only have experience of them running in the 'direction' the dealer soldered them up in. (NACA5)

(Naim amp connectors one end and banana plugs on the other so no chance - and no wish - to experiment.)

Never again!

Incredibly unyielding cables that cannot be bent around corners without judicious (and time consuming) use of a hair dryer to soften the insulation first.

Every single curve and contour in the cable path has to be 'fitted' like this. And as for changing speaker position... forget it! (Unless you want to spend ages with the hair dryer reshaping the cables all over again.)

What a freakin' faff!

That's part of the problem with Naim (along with the switch on thumps and 'wobbly' mains connectors* and leaving it switched on all the time and having to hunt down the right things to clean it with and 'do you tighten the collars?' or 'don't you tighten the collars?'... and... and ...and etc.)...

... it's all too 'needy'. (And pig ugly especially in multiples.)

* When I sold my last system, I had to pre-warn all of the customers - for my Naim components - about the deliberately 'wobbly' mains connectors (with links to Naim web literature on the subject) in case they thought it was a fault! (Luckily they were fine about it and I got excellent feedback.)

 

[chebby]

I am going to lie down for ten minutes. I got all angry again just writing about it! Hateful b####y stuff! (Great sound though.)

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Lol.... so what is being said in this thread, there is no such thing as 'burn in' or 'running in' of electrical components/conducters. That any differences heard is an illusion, the ears cannot be trusted, or getting used to...... why do some people even get out of bed?

So for the record none of you have heard your kit improved over time (you just got use to it). - and since this kinda boils down to the cable argument all cables sound the same?

Do any of you remember that experiment in physics with the metal dust/shreds on a piece of paper and magnets, getting all the individual strands to line up or creating patterns of the magnetic field - it had something to do with the way conducters work and was related to electrical flow (which is related to real world applications) or something like that .... any of you remember and you belittle others education.... head so far up your own ---- (fill in the blank) come to mind.

TRUST YOUR EARS ........!!

The differences heard are real be it burn in, tempreture, direction of electrons or what ever. Whats ironic about these topics is the whole concept of stereo reproduction is based on illiusion - if 250years ago any of you presented 2 wooden boxes placed a couple of metres apart and generated a 3d audio image between and around them you would have been burnt at the stake

 

[Phileas]

Thanks makka. These are Contis, and the treads are only about 1mm deep. You're right, though, I've probably had them on every way, never noticed the arrow until the most recent episode.

If these are road tyres, I shouldn't worry. The tread is probably purely cosmetic since tread is unnecessary on a road tyre.

 

[Overdose]

Thanks makka. These are Contis, and the treads are only about 1mm deep. You're right, though, I've probably had them on every way, never noticed the arrow until the most recent episode.

If these are road tyres, I shouldn't worry. The tread is probably purely cosmetic since tread is unnecessary on a road tyre.

What about for clearing water? I wouldn't ride a slick shod bike on the road (motorbike that is).

Edit: Having said that, pushbikes do seem to have slicks sometimes.

 

[Phileas]

What about for clearing water? I wouldn't ride a slick shod bike on the road (motorbike that is).

The contact patch of a circular-cross-section tyre is roughly elliptical so it easily disperses water.

A car tyre is different so the tread is there to prevent aqua-planing, as everyone knows. A bicycle tire can't aqua-plane.

A motorcycle tire probably can't either but I guess the fatter the tyre is and the faster it rotates the more likely it is to do so.

 

[p_m_brown]

That is it, I'm selling all my gear and buying some AVI stuff. Hopefully this will lead to my very own path of enlightenment for all things hifi and tyre related.

 

[steve_1979]

...this kinda boils down to the cable argument all cables sound the same?

It is possible for an analogue cable to change the tone of the sound by altering the phase if it has certain capacitance and inductance characteristics.

Read this link for some details on how this works: Clicky :read:

Good analogue cables don't add any noticable distortion so they will all sound the same because they can't make the original signal any better than it already is.

Bad cables that do add phase distortion can make it worse though and I suspect this is what often gets mistaken for an 'improvement' with some of the overpriced audiophile cables.

 

[Pete68]

Good analogue cables don't add any noticable distortion so they will all sound the same because they can't make the original signal any better than it already is.

Bad cables that do add phase distortion can make it worse though and I suspect this is what often gets mistaken for an 'improvement' with some of the overpriced audiophile cables.

This hits the nail on the head for me.

Poor cables can hold a system back and good cables will let the signal pass through without fuss or colouration.

So...what consitutes a good cable?

 

[Overdose]

What about for clearing water? I wouldn't ride a slick shod bike on the road (motorbike that is).

The contact patch of a circular-cross-section tyre is roughly elliptical so it easily disperses water.

A car tyre is different so the tread is there to prevent aqua-planing, as everyone knows. A bicycle tire can't aqua-plane.

A motorcycle tire probably can't either but I guess the fatter the tyre is and the faster it rotates the more likely it is to do so.

It must be the smaller contact area and lower speed then I guess, as motorcycle tyres can definitely aquaplane.

 

[busb]

Thanks makka. These are Contis, and the treads are only about 1mm deep. You're right, though, I've probably had them on every way, never noticed the arrow until the most recent episode.

If these are road tyres, I shouldn't worry. The tread is probably purely cosmetic since tread is unnecessary on a road tyre.

The idea behind directional tyres is the rear needs traction whilst the front steers. MTB tyres are often available in pairs of front & rear while road ones are identical but reversed. Tread on road tyres is fairly pointless until you hit wet mud in a corner otherwise you have to be going over 60ish mph for the tread to shed water & stop aqua-planing.

What's even more pointless is tread on brake blocks - all it does is retain small stones that score the rims.

 

[matt49]

So...what consitutes a good cable?

Pete,

I don't claim to know the answer, but here's a man who knows as much about audio cables as anyone I've read on the subject:

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/audio/Analog.html

His conclusions aren't, well, conclusive.

:cheers:

Matt