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Budget subwoofer for music advice with dali zensor 3

Sep 28, 2016
5
0
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Hi all,

I recently moved to another place with a slightly larger room and a soft wobbled wall paper which I can't change. The bass of the Zensor 3 is very nice, but the body of the bass is lacking now.

I want to add some bass with a subwoofer. My budget is low for a good and musically subwoofer (200-250). I heard great things about the klipsch subwoofers. Is the klipsch r10sw any good? Also the bk gemini 2 seems very good but not that loud I think + a bit over budget.

Beside these subwoofer if these are not good at all, are there any others?

Thanks for the help!
 

Al ears

Moderator
Hyper1555 . said:
Hi all,

I recently moved to another place with a slightly larger room and a soft wobbled wall paper which I can't change. The bass of the Zensor 3 is very nice, but the body of the bass is lacking now.

I want to add some bass with a subwoofer. My budget is low for a good and musically subwoofer (200-250). I heard great things about the klipsch subwoofers. Is the klipsch r10sw any good? Also the bk gemini 2 seems very good but not that loud I think + a bit over budget.

Beside these subwoofer if these are not good at all, are there any others?

Thanks for the help!
200-250 what exactly? Pounds, dollars, roubles?
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
Hyper1555 . said:
Hi all,

I recently moved to another place with a slightly larger room and a soft wobbled wall paper which I can't change. The bass of the Zensor 3 is very nice, but the body of the bass is lacking now.

I want to add some bass with a subwoofer. My budget is low for a good and musically subwoofer (200-250). I heard great things about the klipsch subwoofers. Is the klipsch r10sw any good? Also the bk gemini 2 seems very good but not that loud I think + a bit over budget.

Beside these subwoofer if these are not good at all, are there any others?

Thanks for the help!
A subwoofer will not "add some bass", it will extend the sub bass.

This might sound like a pedantic play on words but it isn't, it is an important difference. If you want to improve on the bass punch and presence, then a subwoofer is probably not the correct solution, if you want to extend the bass downwards from the Dalis, then fine, it will do the job.

At uk prices, the Gemini is usually considered the best value small sub for music, Klipsch are fairly rare in the uk, but in your market...*unknw*
 
Sep 28, 2016
5
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I heard the bk gemini 2 is not that loud? And the xls200 is too expensive.
I have to other the bk and ship it to the Netherlands. Which will make them more expensive.
Klipsch is easy to get to here, but I don't know how this cheap sub will preform (no testing available).

Edit:
Yes I want to extend the sun-bass, but the dali zensor 3 also has frequencies till 50 hz (tested) and then rolls off till a very low volume 30 hz. So louder and more detailed bass.
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
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davedotco said:
Hyper1555 . said:
Hi all,

I recently moved to another place with a slightly larger room and a soft wobbled wall paper which I can't change. The bass of the Zensor 3 is very nice, but the body of the bass is lacking now.

I want to add some bass with a subwoofer. My budget is low for a good and musically subwoofer (200-250). I heard great things about the klipsch subwoofers. Is the klipsch r10sw any good? Also the bk gemini 2 seems very good but not that loud I think + a bit over budget.

Beside these subwoofer if these are not good at all, are there any others?

Thanks for the help!
A subwoofer will not "add some bass", it will extend the sub bass.

This might sound like a pedantic play on words but it isn't, it is an important difference. If you want to improve on the bass punch and presence, then a subwoofer is probably not the correct solution, if you want to extend the bass downwards from the Dalis, then fine, it will do the job.

At uk prices, the Gemini is usually considered the best value small sub for music, Klipsch are fairly rare in the uk, but in your market...*unknw*
How would one increase bass slam?
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
Andrewjvt said:
davedotco said:
Hyper1555 . said:
Hi all,

I recently moved to another place with a slightly larger room and a soft wobbled wall paper which I can't change. The bass of the Zensor 3 is very nice, but the body of the bass is lacking now.

I want to add some bass with a subwoofer. My budget is low for a good and musically subwoofer (200-250). I heard great things about the klipsch subwoofers. Is the klipsch r10sw any good? Also the bk gemini 2 seems very good but not that loud I think + a bit over budget.

Beside these subwoofer if these are not good at all, are there any others?

Thanks for the help!
A subwoofer will not "add some bass", it will extend the sub bass.

This might sound like a pedantic play on words but it isn't, it is an important difference. If you want to improve on the bass punch and presence, then a subwoofer is probably not the correct solution, if you want to extend the bass downwards from the Dalis, then fine, it will do the job.

At uk prices, the Gemini is usually considered the best value small sub for music, Klipsch are fairly rare in the uk, but in your market...*unknw*
How would one increase bass slam?
If the speakers have the capability, a more potent amplifier might help but realistically better speakers are the real answer.

We do not really know what the op is trying to achieve but what I can say is this, I have seen a fair number of subs in peoples homes and in many cases, perhaps even most, they have the level set far too high and thet are crossed over far to high as well. They are often trying to improve bass slam but the result is an absolute mess but what can you say...*unknw*

Without wishing to derail this thread, this is one of the prime reasons that I often recommend active speakers such as the Adam A7x/A8x. A lot of modern music is bass driven so a refined hi-fi presentation is sometimes not what is required, something with a real bass kick is though, and the actives with a big, 7-10 inch bass driver, direct driven by 100+ watt amplifiers will really deliver.
 
Sep 28, 2016
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1. Good hifi bookshelf speakers mostly have ranges that don't extend low, thats where good supp is needed to fill the gap or you need expensive and gigantic floorstanders.

2. I don't have the money nor the place for floorstanders or the active speakers

3. On-topic: I just want to know if subwoofers like the jamo J 10, klipsch r10sw, bk gemini 2 will do the job I need them to (give extended and louder, feel it in the body bass without messing up the detail too much)?
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
739
298
5,270
While I don't discourage the use of subwoofer I'd suggest a couple of things before you spend any money.

Play about with speaker positioning in relation to back wall. Make sure they're used on proper speaker stands and make sure you're using carpet spikes. If the stands can be filled with e.g. sand then play about with the level to see how it impacts bass. Finally, have you considered using tone controls? And if not, why not try to see whether that change would be sufficient.

If none of the above will make enough difference then I'd personally be looking at a different pair of speakers altogether and not adding a potentially difficult sub. You say that it is only slightly a larger room so potentially the differences you need to make are not as drastic as spending £250.
 

muljao

New member
Jul 18, 2016
154
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0
If it were me I would not add a sub, more boxes, wires and trying to get it to sound better, just a more complex setup.

What was suggested by position may be key, if that doesn't work I'd use my 250 with whatever I could sell your existing speakers and go for a set that more suit your needs.

I know that's not what you asked, but sometimes an alternative can be the answer
 
Sep 28, 2016
5
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I already tried positioning the speakers differently, no real difference. And they have great bass, just not enough now since there is carpet and soft wall paper now.
Secondly, I just bought the speakers and I have no money for an expensive upgrade in an av reciever and extra speakers.
I immediately tried different bass settings. I mostly use +2 - +3. +4 makes the bass too boomy.

Lastly, still no answer on the question wheter, with my budget, a subwoofer will do the job, since its only for a small extention in the sub-bass and a bit more rawr.
 

muljao

New member
Jul 18, 2016
154
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0
Maybe go back to where you bought the speakers and see what they say. If they are a good shop they may allow most of your money back and allow you throw thw 250 with it to get someting more suitable. If you are intent on a sub they may even let you try one out with your existing gear.

You say the speakers you have now have plenty bass, but not now because of your room setup/soft furnashings. There probably is a set of spekers well within your budget that are heavy bass hitters, that may work well in your "bass quietening" room
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
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I refer you to my earlier post. The subwoofer does not boost the bass in the sense of giving you more of what you have, it simply extends the bass below the frequencies produced by the Dalis.

So your question has been answered, a sub will 'do the job' of extending the bass deeper and giving you the lowest frequencies that underpin the music. It will not add extra bass punch and presence or make the bass louder, these involve frequencies higher than a sub is designed to produce. As explained ealier, running the sub in such a way as to try and achieve this involves setting the sub too loud and the crossover too high.

As I already explained, the result is a mess, however some people seem to think that this is what a subwoofer is designed to do, you might be one of them...*unknw*
 
Sep 28, 2016
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By extending the frequencies below the 60-70 hz (where my speakers fall off), the subwoofer will pick up, therefore making the bass notes louder to great a more flat respons overall. So in a way, the one creates the other.

Will a subwoofer of 250 do that?
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
739
298
5,270
Hyper1555 . said:
I already tried positioning the speakers differently, no real difference. And they have great bass, just not enough now since there is carpet and soft wall paper now.
Secondly, I just bought the speakers and I have no money for an expensive upgrade in an av reciever and extra speakers.
I immediately tried different bass settings. I mostly use +2 - +3. +4 makes the bass too boomy.
If the bass is "too boomy" when using tone controls what makes you think you will cure the problem with a sub? Bass boom is a usual hint the position is not ideal.

First set the tone controls to +4 and then start moving the speakers from the wall towards centre of the room 10-20cm at a time.

And just to check what are the speakers standing on? Stands? If so are you using carpet spikes?

Hyper1555 . said:
Lastly, still no answer on the question wheter, with my budget, a subwoofer will do the job, since its only for a small extention in the sub-bass and a bit more rawr.
I think it was answered, though not by myself, but it looks like you didn't like the answer.
 

Al ears

Moderator
Hyper1555 . said:
Floorstanders are the only speakers giving more bass than the ones I now have. Speakers better than these will also be 400+ (euro) per speakers. Thats 200 (euro) more than these.
Apart from the BK Gemini my usual recommendation would be the REL T-Zero but thats more like £300.
 

nopiano

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2009
174
53
18,670
Dear hyper155, those questioning your choice of a subwoofer are not being awkward. They are really giving good advice, ime. As you have tone controls, you can try reducing the treble slightly, as that will elevate (relatively) both bass and mid, and might be preferable.

I have not known wallpaper and carpet to greatly affect bass; they both tend to absorb higher frequencies. But as you've found, different rooms sound different! Try to borrow a sub, and you may get results you like, but I'm completely in agreement with Dave that most people have them far too audible.
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
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0
nopiano said:
Dear hyper155, those questioning your choice of a subwoofer are not being awkward. They are really giving good advice, ime. As you have tone controls, you can try reducing the treble slightly, as that will elevate (relatively) both bass and mid, and might be preferable.

I have not known wallpaper and carpet to greatly affect bass; they both tend to absorb higher frequencies. But as you've found, different rooms sound different! Try to borrow a sub, and you may get results you like, but I'm completely in agreement with Dave that most people have them far too audible.
Effective bass absorption requires far more than wallpaper or carpet, they will have no discernable effect on the bass response, but change the room dimensions and you get big differences, hence the emphasis on speaker placement.

It is clear that the op wants a sub, best to let him go ahead and get one. Most cheap subs are boom boxes for home cinema use, but quite possibly that is the effect that is wanted.

The Gemini is not perfect but it is probaly the best for music in it's price range, properly set up it will provide worthwhile extension to the Dalis.
 
Sep 28, 2016
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I tried toning down the treble. It are, however, tone controls and make the sound different, the sparkling treble is gone then.
I could try to other the klipsch r10sw and return it if I don't like it. If the sub works for me, but the quality not, I could go for the bk gemini 2 or the bk xls200.
Last option is to buy nothing till im graduaded and have the money to buy more expensive speakers.
 

floyd droid62

New member
Sep 29, 2016
7
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0
Hyper1555 . said:
I already tried positioning the speakers differently, no real difference. And they have great bass, just not enough now since there is carpet and soft wall paper now. Secondly, I just bought the speakers and I have no money for an expensive upgrade in an av reciever and extra speakers. I immediately tried different bass settings. I mostly use +2 - +3. +4 makes the bass too boomy.

Lastly, still no answer on the question wheter, with my budget, a subwoofer will do the job, since its only for a small extention in the sub-bass and a bit more rawr.
i know what you mean by bass slam ,i have two subs ,bk monolith ,real bass not slam,but i also have a small sealed sub mj accoustic pro 50, that does give music " a slam" ,for music, like pitbull;but i like the B.K monolth for real bass extension,but the wife love,s the sound of the distorted mj pro 50, so you want upper bass for slam!
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
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0
Hyper1555 . said:
Do you know if the bk gemini 2 and xls200 are good for music too and give what you call slam? These probably the only budget speakers made for music but I don't know about the quality.
Punch or whatever you want to call it, is primarily a function of bass frequencies, not sub bass frequencies, the couple of octaves above 80Hz are what really make a difference.

A sub should really be used below 80Hz so will have minimal effect on 'slam'. You may well feel rumbling bass frequencies in your gut, but that 'kick in the chest' slam, not really.
 

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