BK XXLS400 thoughts

[hybridauth_Google_116938996519391941254]

Anyone had any expeirience on the above sub as part of a 7.1 setup with 7 B&W M1's. Apparently they are very good value (£380 ish) but it's not a brand I'm familiar with.

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/XXLS400DF.htm

Any thoughts or opinions greatly recieved.

 

[CnoEvil]

It's the standard value/performance recommendation on here and everybody who has one of BK's products is happy. I think you can buy with confidence.

 

[ellisdj]

It depends on what you want it for and how much output you want. - if you want a dual purpose sub for music and movies its a sensible choice.

I managed to squeeze decent film bass out of one, however I wanted it to do much more than it is capable of in terms of low end output and output in general and the weakness shows up there in distorted output. For most people they probably wouldnt even notice and probably wouldnt work one as hard

You dont really get low end output of them so you never quite get the foundation to the sound you do from a better / different sub. They rolled off for me steep at about 45hz and my cousin has one, same for him in his room so thats how it is. I argued with a guy on AVF who was adamanent he was getting 20hz bass out of 2, until he upgraded to better subs and straight away realised what I was saying is true. That is why the sell the monolith as well to perform to that range

In saying that dont be put off, just be aware - they good for music and decent all rounders, no realiability problems, well made, excellent service and excellent customer service from BK - the gloss black finish is really excellent and worth the extra if you want gloss.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Gemini sub from bk im sure you cant go wrong.

If you using sub for music also then the bk 400 is the one.
If movies is your motive then id go for the monolith

 

[jonathanRD]

I have one. Based on my budget at the time, I decided to go for the Monitor Audio Bronze speakers for my 5.1 set up (now 7.1). The BX2 fronts were around £250 a pair and the Monitor Audio sub around the £500 mark. But reviews everywhere were not so good for that sub, and I started seeing numerous great reviews for the BK subs and especially the XXLS400 that was cheaper too. As I wanted to add a sub to my bookshelf hifi speakers too at the time, after getting some advice from BK, they advised the 400 as the best sub for 50/50 movie/music use.

IMO, with my budget home cinema set up, the 400 is great for movies, I really enjoy what it brings to the movie experience, but I do understand that it is a compromise as I wanted to use it for music too. If I just wanted it for movies, I would have purchased the Monolith. My hifi seakers are now floorstanders - so I use the sub less at the moment, but the option is still there should I decide to revert to bookshelf speakers.

Ultimately it is a balance, if you have an AVR under £500, with speakers under £300 a pair, the BK subs are great value, and I am sure you will be happy with the XXLS400. If it's only movies - try to stretch to the Monolith. As Ellisdj suggests, I might be missing something, but still more than happy and enjoying what I've got at this level.

 

[ellisdj]

If you go and hear a big home cinema system (in terms of output scale) you realise the importance of huge bass as part of this presentation. Its the most important part of a every sound reproduction in my eyes, but especially movies - its the foundation everything sits on top - if its good everything above it sounds better for it. If its bad it ruins the presentation from even the best speakers and systems, completely ruins it (for me anyway)

If this is the level of sound output scale you are going for then a monolith gives you big output with good extension for very little money relatively. The trade off being physics - box size. It works on natural extension from box volume.

Now where the money goes into more expensive subwoofers is getting the monolith level of extension or better and output or better from a small sealed enclosure - which also brings its own benefits and is more domestic friendly really

However this costs a lot more money in engineering, amplifier power etc - but it is a long term investment because as I said above the bass is the foundation all the other sound sits on. Dont scrimp on the bass part of an overall system to spend more elsewhere, that is a big mistake. Luckily you can get a lot of performance for your money if you buy wisely and learn about how bass works in a room.

 

[Andrewjvt]

If you go and hear a big home cinema system (in terms of output scale) you realise the importance of huge bass as part of this presentation.  Its the most important part of a every sound reproduction in my eyes, but especially movies - its the foundation everything sits on top - if its good everything above it sounds better for it.  If its bad it ruins the presentation from even the best speakers and systems, completely ruins it (for me anyway)

If this is the level of sound output scale you are going for then a monolith gives you big output with good extension for very little money relatively.  The trade off being physics - box size.  It works on natural extension from box volume.

Now where the money goes into more expensive subwoofers is getting the monolith level of extension or better and output or better from a small sealed enclosure - which also brings its own benefits and is more domestic friendly really

However this costs a lot more money in engineering, amplifier power etc - but it is a long term investment because as I said above the bass is the foundation all the other sound sits on.  Dont scrimp on the bass part of an overall system to spend more elsewhere, that is a big mistake.  Luckily you can get a lot of performance for your money if you buy wisely and learn about how bass works in a room.

Im not disagreeing with anything you have said here and quite agree but youve not given the op your opinion on what to do.

Do you recomend the bk sub or save for something better?

 

[ellisdj]

Andrew thats because it's up to him depending on what he wants from the sub and ultimately how much he might want to spend.
I made a few previous owner comments a few posts above

 

[jonathanRD]

Anyone had any expeirience on the above sub as part of a 7.1 setup with 7 B&W M1's. Apparently they are very good value (£380 ish) but it's not a brand I'm familiar with.

http://www.bkelec.com/HiFi/Sub_Woofers/XXLS400DF.htm

Any thoughts or opinions greatly recieved.

Andrewjvt - to be fair to Ellisdj he has given the Op both thoughts and opinions, so unless Ray comes back and asks further questions, there's not much more any of us can add really.

 

[hybridauth_Google_116938996519391941254]

Many thanks for all the advice. I use the system far more for movies than for music so the Monolith sounds like the better bet.

If I saved and could eventually stretch the budget to £1000 what would I be looking at that would be better than the Monolith/Monolith plus?

Thanks again

Ray

 

[hybridauth_Google_116938996519391941254]

How does the monolith or monolith plus stack up against the SVS PB2000?

 

[floyd droid62]

Many thanks for all the advice. I use the system far more for movies than for music so the Monolith sounds like the better bet.

If I saved and could eventually stretch the budget to £1000 what would I be looking at that would be better than the Monolith/Monolith plus?

Thanks again

Ray

i have the monolith great for movies,but for a £1000,there might be better musical ones,i think the monolith ok for music; but i have not compared it to anything !

 

[ellisdj]

I think I would buy the monolith + better driver better amp means working less hard.

How big is your room ?
Have our considered a solution for bass management ?

EDIT SVS make very good subwoofers they will probably be similar in performance as they are similar designs.

 

[ellisdj]

A at £1k you might get a Powersound audio s1500 or V1500. Think be a bit more than a £1k.

This is SVS 13 ultra range equivalents FWIW

 

[hybridauth_Google_116938996519391941254]

The room is 5.5m x 5m.

I've got the TV in the corner (no other option) with the sub behind the TV right in the corner. I've got the whole thing going through my receiver (marantz SR7010) and the Audyssey calibration set all my speakers (7 B&W M1's) to small with crossovers 80Hz.

The current sub is attached to an Anti mode 8033 Cinema.

Would there be a noticeable difference between the Monolith plus (£560) and a £1000 model. I don't crank it very loud but I do want low down deep extension.

 

[Andrewjvt]

The room is 5.5m x 5m.

I've got the TV in the corner (no other option) with the sub behind the TV right in the corner. I've got the whole thing going through my receiver (marantz SR7010) and the Audyssey calibration set all my speakers (7 B&W M1's) to small with crossovers 80Hz.

The current sub is attached to an Anti mode 8033 Cinema.

Would there be a noticeable difference between the Monolith plus (£560) and a £1000 model. I don't crank it very loud but I do want low down deep extension.

That £1000 will make a difference worth it.

Unless you buy 2nd hand.

Bk subs are very good value for money

 

[ellisdj]

The room is 5.5m x 5m.

I've got the TV in the corner (no other option) with the sub behind the TV right in the corner. I've got the whole thing going through my receiver (marantz SR7010) and the Audyssey calibration set all my speakers (7 B&W M1's) to small with crossovers 80Hz.

The current sub is attached to an Anti mode 8033 Cinema.

Would there be a noticeable difference between the Monolith plus (£560) and a £1000 model. I don't crank it very loud but I do want low down deep extension.

Most subs will perform similar within their performance constraints within the room because its the room that is having far more effect on the bass ( I have not explained this well) - plus bass is pressure and its predictable to a very large degree.

Where abouts do you sit in the room?

 

[hybridauth_Google_116938996519391941254]

The MLP is pretty much dead centre in the room.

If there's little to choose between them the Monolith Plus is looking favourite.

 

[ellisdj]

The MLP is pretty much dead centre in the room.

If there's little to choose between them the Monolith Plus is looking favourite.

Hold on - pointless buying anything with how things are - where you sit now you will never get good bass doesnt matter what sub you buy. Bear with my and I will show you why.

Looking at these details you need to sit either 38% from the front wall if you have your sub in the front corner, or you can move to 38% from rear wall if you can have the sub in the rear corner.

Bass is a ***** - where you sit now you have no low end at all - which doesnt surprise me the middle of a room is a big pressure null. I can show you but please bear with me - take me time, I am working as well and doing a show write up

 

[ellisdj]

That is very roughly but pretty accurate freq response you will get at your MLP if you sit in the middle of the room.

You have got huge excess at about 60hz, I have the same in my room - thats room length related but thats fixable with eq.

Looking at the main problem you have serious falling low end to 30hz where actually you need rising bass to 30hz for it to sound flat. With it as it is it will sound very lean with serious boom and its likely why your thinking you want a new sub. Doesnt matter what sub you put in here it will be the same. Doesnt matter what front corner you use it will be the same

I havent tried rear corners, but it will likely be the same - start by looking to move your MLP forward or backwards before you spend money on a new sub.

 

[hybridauth_Google_116938996519391941254]

Thanks for that ellisdj. I really appreciate the advice and your efforts.

I've just had a measure up and the MLP is about 38% from the rear. Measured on the diagonal from front of the room to the back and passing through the MLP it's 7.18m total, 2.95m from the back and 4.23m from the front. There isn't really a way to cable it from the back of the room though. Are the wireless options an good?

 

[ellisdj]

If you move the seat forward to 38% distance from the front wall there is significant imprvoement

 

[ellisdj]

Ignore that last one - the MLP is not in the middle of the room at all - that makes a huge difference - bear with me.

Being 38% from the rear wall with the subs at the front looked horrendous - however it might be different as your off to the side.

I have the same problem in my room mate, it sucks

 

[ellisdj]

Here look sitting where you do is significantly better than being in the middle of the room

To me the best response comes from 2.09metres into the room length and 2.15metres width roughly 38% from both rear and side walls - no shock there that is the best place to start.

Its not perfect you have a big suck out at 50hz but a lot more output lower in the lower freq which is Much Better.

You could buy a sub that tapers off its response in that range to compensate for the natural room gain look at Arendal Sub woofers they do just this.

Its using room gain how sub companies post figures of 19hz for example from a low powered small sub - its all room gain, not clean output - seperate point,

Now its a choice on the subwoofer because a sub with a lot of output at 30hz is going to be increased exponentially so you will get loads of 30hz - thats the range that rattles windows and doors and stuff and whiel thats fun for 5 minutes its also very distracting and annoying.

This is also only showing freq response room decay is a seperate ossue that cannot be predicted only measured.

 

[ellisdj]

I personally am a fan of a subwoofer with a flat response ( how monolith is setup) and I want room gain at lower freq to setup a specific house Curve for my bass. I dont know how auddessey tries to setup its target curve?

I manually setup my bass and have a lot of room treatments to sock up the excess ringing from running 2 subs hard I have for my small room of approx 5x3. Bass is proper tight for the most part.

However if you have a very live room wood floors bare walls this might be too much hence I think why Arendal subs are designed the way they are - Scandavian room decor in mind maybe - its very hard for me to say that part for you but if you get the basics as good as possible i.e. sub position and listening position - half the battle and it is a battle is won.