BK XXLS 400 or Monolith sub??

[fayeanddavid]

Anyone on the forum have experience of either/both of these subs?

I read such good things of them and am very very tempted to do the deed and replace my REL Storm III with either the 400 or the Monolith

I'm thinking that matching the KEF speakers with either of these shouldn't be an issue.

The 400 has good reviews and is relatively compact (sort of 400mm cube...ish) and the Monolith (also excellent reviews) is almost twice the weight (45kg or so) with a nominal 450 x 550 footprint, no issues with either for fitting in the lounge

Any advice?

 

[CnoEvil]

Storm 111 is a good sub...are you sure there will be enough improvement.

I think the Monolith is ported so may not be great for 2.1. It's also no shrinking violet.

 

[fayeanddavid]

Storm 111 is a good sub...are you sure there will be enough improvement. I think the Monolith is ported so may not be great for 2.1. It's also no shrinking violet.

Agreed on the Storm III, 12 years old though so thinking that like all things of a certain age (??) a replacement is due.

Really difficult to know, our use is 90% movies so not too fussed over 2.1.

 

[CnoEvil]

Not sure how much sub technology has moved on in that time....except to get great bass from very small boxes.

I prefer the old Rels to the current (Rel) models anyway, and at 12 years old, is still a teenager (Rels are well made)...I've got speakers still working from the 80s!

Just my view, so please ignore and buy...if that is your want.

 

[vonchief]

I relpaced a storm3 with an xxls400 after the rel broke.

Found it to be just as good with music and for films it has more slam than the rel did.

The rel did go deeper though,probably due to the port.

As you probably know the xxls has the option of defeating the crossover on the low input and just using it on the high level.

This was why i went for the 400 over the monolith.I use my sub wired up to my stereo speakers off one amp using the high level, low level is used off my av amp with speakers set to small. This way i have the sub set up for both systems without needing to adjust it acording to what i want on.

If you are using large front speakers and wanted to connect the sub up with both high and low level connections you would only need the one crossover setting so i would probably go with the monolith for the deeper bass.

 

[fayeanddavid]

I relpaced a storm3 with an xxls400 after the rel broke.

Found it to be just as good with music and for films it has more slam than the rel did.

The rel did go deeper though,probably due to the port.

As you probably know the xxls has the option of defeating the crossover on the low input and just using it on the high level.

This was why i went for the 400 over the monolith.I use my sub wired up to my stereo speakers off one amp using the high level, low level is used off my av amp with speakers set to small. This way i have the sub set up for both systems without needing to adjust it acording to what i want on.

If you are using large front speakers and wanted to connect the sub up with both high and low level connections you would only need the one crossover setting so i would probably go with the monolith for the deeper bass.

Thanks for your comments von chief, interesting point of how deep the Storm can go, think what I am hearing is a certain (or perceived) slight flabbiness on the "slam", at the beginning and the end, hence my question

We are a 90% movie house in the set up, and no hard and fast stereo listening, tends to be iPod at 128kps so no real listening requirement there, although beginning to think on that when the new av amps have perfected their streaming abilities then I'll move forward with a new amp

Thanks again

 

[CnoEvil]

I relpaced a storm3 with an xxls400 after the rel broke.

Found it to be just as good with music and for films it has more slam than the rel did.

The rel did go deeper though,probably due to the port.

As you probably know the xxls has the option of defeating the crossover on the low input and just using it on the high level.

This was why i went for the 400 over the monolith.I use my sub wired up to my stereo speakers off one amp using the high level, low level is used off my av amp with speakers set to small. This way i have the sub set up for both systems without needing to adjust it acording to what i want on.

If you are using large front speakers and wanted to connect the sub up with both high and low level connections you would only need the one crossover setting so i would probably go with the monolith for the deeper bass.

Thanks for your comments von chief, interesting point of how deep the Storm can go, think what I am hearing is a certain (or perceived) slight flabbiness on the "slam", at the beginning and the end, hence my question

We are a 90% movie house in the set up, and no hard and fast stereo listening, tends to be iPod at 128kps so no real listening requirement there, although beginning to think on that when the new av amps have perfected their streaming abilities then I'll move forward with a new amp

Thanks again

I have tightened up the bass from subs I've owned, firstly by placing on an Auralex gramma (I've a wooden floor), which made a big difference.

Secondly by using a Clearer Audio Copper-line alpha + p/c, which also made a surprising difference - though less (applying kevlar and exiting quickly).

 

[fayeanddavid]

I have tightened up the bass from subs I've owned, firstly by placing on an Auralex gramma (I've a wooden floor), which made a big difference. Secondly by using a Clearer Audio Copper-line alpha + p/c, which also made a surprising difference - though less (applying kevlar and exiting quickly).

Yep, on your side on this one, I have a Chord Power Chord to the Storm III, think I should try the Auralex gramma as a starter then, sub is on carpet but you never know!!

Question:

Just how do you know when a sub is beginning to under perform.............don't think your ears are much of a guide as they are so conditioned to the sub output I'm not sure that any degradation in performance would necessarily be picked up?

 

[CnoEvil]

Is your carpet over wood or concrete?

If there has been a slow decline in performance, the chances are, that you won't have noticed.
The only way to easily check, is to get a home demo of something comparable.

 

[jolls]

From what I have read the 400 is more "musical" than the monolith, the monolith being better for movies. As a suggestion why don't you ring BK and ask them their opinion.

 

[scene]

From what I have read the 400 is more "musical" than the monolith, the monolith being better for movies. As a suggestion why don't you ring BK and ask them their opinion.

+1 on that - or email them - they're very friendly and helpful in my experience - give them as much info as you can, including room size, mix of music vs. home cinema and see what they suggest.

 

[fayeanddavid]

From what I have read the 400 is more "musical" than the monolith, the monolith being better for movies. As a suggestion why don't you ring BK and ask them their opinion.

+1 on that - or email them - they're very friendly and helpful in my experience - give them as much info as you can, including room size, mix of music vs. home cinema and see what they suggest.

Yep, done this, Tom at BK is also of the opinion that the Monolith is the way to go, especially for movies based listening.

Never have grasped the "difference" between subs musicality/movie-ality when they share so much common ground?

 

[scene]

Speed and attack vs. grunt and room pressurisation.

For music you want speed and attack, so that it can follow the music and not muddy the notes.

For movies, you tend to be more interested in that "in-the-gut" feel as the explosions rip through things - so sheer grunt becomes more important than speed.

With subs there tends to be a trade off between the two. You can have sub nirvana with speed and attack AND grunt and room pressurisation, but this usually requires four fast subs, one in each corner to beef things up... Usually followed by deafness, bleeding from the ears, resulting in an inability to hear your neighbours, or the police, banging on your door :crazy:

 

[fayeanddavid]

Speed and attack vs. grunt and room pressurisation.

For music you want speed and attack, so that it can follow the music and not muddy the notes.

For movies, you tend to be more interested in that "in-the-gut" feel as the explosions rip through things - so sheer grunt becomes more important than speed.

With subs there tends to be a trade off between the two. You can have sub nirvana with speed and attack AND grunt and room pressurisation, but this usually requires four fast subs, one in each corner to beef things up... Usually followed by deafness, bleeding from the ears, resulting in an inability to hear your neighbours, or the police, banging on your door :crazy:

And then not particularly wife or wallet friendly, I guess

So I understand what you say, are subs really built that way (for one of two options), always thought that a sub is a sub (most of the time) and similar to speakers you gets what you pays for?

The trade off is sub A is more suitable to music compared to sub B which has less "timing" but more grunt (is that "slam") ?

 

[Anonymous]

If you have a sub that is good with music and set up well all you really need to do I think is turn the sub up for more "Slam" with music it is there to underpin but for movies you want to feel it.
Nick

 

[scene]

Yes grunt = slam. And I've over-simplified to make a point, but basically yes. There is a trade-off. There are very expensive subs that give you the best of both worlds - for example the slightly insane Paradigm Signature SUB2 - but it costs £7000! Sorry, did I say slightly. I mean completely, unless you live in an aircraft hangar, as it delivers 4500W...

 

[scene]

If you have a sub that is good with music and set up well all you really need to do I think is turn the sub up for more "Slam" with music it is there to underpin but for movies you want to feel it. Nick

Agreed - I'd tend to go for a musical sub and up the power as required. Some subs have a "Music / Movies" setting to do this for you.

I'm in the same dilemma as the OP, as I'm trying to decide between the XXLS400 and Monolith - my thoughts are with the former at the moment...

 

[Messiah]

daveh75 has the monolith and I think basshead used to.

Hopefully they will add their views...

 

[fayeanddavid]

daveh75 has the monolith and I think basshead used to.

Hopefully they will add their views...

Now that would be really useful, c'mon guys please do.............

 

[Anonymous]

Hey, I was about to post the same valued question XXLS or the Monolith.

What did you go for in the end? any pointers on your final choice??

 

[bluedroog]

I own a XXLS400 and love it! It took me a little while to set it up to it's best (and it's probably got a lot of room for improvement in that area too) but it just sounds great. I've heard the kind of subs you get for similar money in the likes of Richer Sounds and they just don't compete, you'll get something spec wise closer to the XLS200 for the price of the 400.

I haven't got the biggest room in the world and listen to about 80% music to 20% films so for me the sealed design of the 400 was the perfect compromise. It goes plenty low enough for all of my music but is just so tuneful and tight. For films in a 5.1 configuration it won't shake the room in quite the same way some subs can but it just fills the low end LFE channel out nicely and when called in to action for action scenes it can really put a smile on your face.

Onto the Monolith, now I've not had first hand experience of this but have read an awful lot and can makes an educated judgment based on my experiences with other BK subs. If you've got the room for it and film is your priority then this is absolutely the one to go for. It has the same size 12" driver of the 400 but the larger enclosure and more efficient ported design let's it go low with ease. In terms of punch this will give you everything the 400 has plus that little bit extra, bass you not only hear but feel, this will really rumble and give you that kick in the chest bass junkies crave. For music it's certainly no slouch but not quite up to the 400.

So basically it's up to you and your priorities, in an ideal world I'd love to have two separate and independent systems, one for music (either with full range speakers or with a 400) and one purely for films and get a Monolith, or even better two Monoliths!

 

[Kubs]

Which subs on the market are in the same range, in terms of performance, as the bk 400?

 

[bigboss]

Which subs on the market are in the same range, in terms of performance, as the bk 400?

http://www.hifix.co.uk/subwoofers/svs/sb1000.html

http://www.hifix.co.uk/subwoofers/svs/pb1000.html

You'll be hard pressed to find anything else for that price and quality.

 

[Kubs]

Thanks big boss. Would a £1000 sub, say the kef r400b or rel s2, be a significant increase in terms of sound quality ... Appreciate its all subjective etc but would welcome your thoughts ... And others ...

 

[bigboss]

For that budget, I would go for the subwoofer made by the inventor of subwoofers himself!

http://www.lsound.co.uk/subwoofers/ken-kreisel-dxd-808.html

I've got one, and it's significantly better than my Monitor Audio AW12 subwoofer.