Bi/Di Pole or Direct Radiating in 5.1

[admin_exported]

Hey peoples,

I've just ordered my first home theatre system, jumped on Monitor Audio RX6 bargin. For rears i order the RXFX, however i am now thinking that maybe i should have got the RX1's.

I have corner lounge which is hard up against the rear wall. I was planning to mount the rear speakers to to side walls (for a clean finish) about 250mm off the rear wall, I cannot come out any further due to where the windows are.

Will Bi/Di Pole speakers work firing this close to the rear wall? Should i have got the RX1's instead for this position?

Another options is to use speaker stands, and position them slightly more forward of the sitting position.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you

 

[Anonymous]

They be reflecting sounds on the rear wall and should give the room a more filled souns, they should work fine IMO

 

[Anonymous]

xon501:They be reflecting sounds on the rear wall

Yeah see this is what i was worried about, i thought the reflecting might be a problem.

 

[The_Lhc]

No, they're designed to do that, to create a more diffuse sound-field.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree that is actually what they are designed for, so the sound is not str8 to the ear and will give a more engulfing effect.

 

[Sorreltiger]

They should be exactly what you need. Make sure you mount them high and you will get great surround effects.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Because they're not designed to be used near to rear walls, you could place some foam or material behind the grille of the speaker facing the rear wall. This will dampen the amount of sound coming from them, so there will be less reflection off the rear wall. It's the reflection that will give away where the speaker is.

It should be ok if you're about 1.5m from the rear wall. Any closer, try what I've recommended above

 

[Anonymous]

I have the RXFX, and one of the rear channels is sbout 1m of the rear wall (due to the shape of the room) and there are no issues with the surrond field, I am sure you will be very happy with them.

I watched episode 6&7 of pacific on Sky HD last night and wow, the sound was amazing.

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:
Because they're not designed to be used near to rear walls, you could place some foam or material behind the grille of the speaker facing the rear wall. This will dampen the amount of sound coming from them, so there will be less reflection off the rear wall. It's the reflection that will give away where the speaker is.

It should be ok if you're about 1.5m from the rear wall. Any closer, try what I've recommended above

Thats a great idea, thanks David.

I haven't acutaly got the RXFX yet, so far i have only put down the deposit for them. The store said i can swap to the RX1 if i want.

If i do mount the RXFX 1.5m from the rear wall, it will have to be on the ceiling, (i have windows both sides of the room) and since I'll be sitting on the couch against the rear wall, that would make the speakers infront of the listening position by about degrees. Would that be okay? Im guessing that would work better than placing the close to the rear wall and dampening the sound from one end?

Alternatively would i be better off with the RX1in the corner firing directly to the side of the listener?

I'm at a bit of a loss as to what would sound best. I have pretty much no experiance with home theatre, just some basic knowledge. I'm happy to do either, just after the best result.

Thanks again.

 

[Anonymous]

markjaspi:
I have the RXFX, and one of the rear channels is sbout 1m of the rear wall (due to the shape of the room) and there are no issues with the surrond field, I am sure you will be very happy with them.

So where are the speakers located of the listening position?

 

[Anonymous]

I have my RSFX (fitted by my AV specialist) mounted on the rear wall about 7" off the ceiling.

My settee is set up against the wall, the sound effects are excellent.

Hope that helps.

 

[Frank Harvey]

markjaspi: I have the RXFX, and one of the rear channels is sbout 1m of the rear wall (due to the shape of the room) and there are no issues with the surrond field, I am sure you will be very happy with them.

The closer a dipole speaker is to the rear wall, the more the HF and some midrange wll reflect off that wall, which restricts the soundfield it is trying to create, which is the soundfield that multiple speakers down the sides of cinemas produce. This reflection will usually give away the speakers position more. If there's something in the corner, like curtains, there is less or no reflection, and nulls the reflective effect that gives away the speaker's position.

I suppose it's hard to know how it's affecting the speaker if the speaker has never been heard in it's ideal position.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Prime Cuts:If i do mount the RXFX 1.5m from the rear wall, it will have to be on the ceiling, (i have windows both sides of the room) and since I'll be sitting on the couch against the rear wall, that would make the speakers infront of the listening position by about degrees. Would that be okay? Im guessing that would work better than placing the close to the rear wall and dampening the sound from one end?

I'm not sure how well they'd perform on the ceiling, as I've never heard any mounted that way! I'm also not sure how well they would be secured - they're the usually key lock type hook on affairs, so they might work loose after a while with the vibration! Probably not recommended....

Direct firing rear speakers are like hi-fi speakers - there will be a sweet spot where you need to be. Not ideal. I know film soundtracks are mastered on a a speakers system based purely on direct firing speakers, but the mixer is sitting in the ideal position - chances are, you won't be.

Have you thought of in-ceiling speakers? Monitor Audio do the C265FX, which use dual HF units which can be used in dipole or bipole mode. I would've thought that would be a much easier solution for you

 

[Anonymous]

I use my dipoles as surround speakers, so next to my listening position. One of them is a lot closer to a back wall than yours: about 10 mm. In my situation it helped at lot to turn both of them slightly inward to the seating position. Not nearly as much as you would do with front speakers though, they should still be pointing past you, rather than directly at you. Just a couple of degrees "toe-in".

I think this helps because the sound coming directly from the speaker is now slightly offset from the sound that reflects off the rear wall. This was recommended in my dipoles manual.

Now I can't tell it's position any better than the other one (which has 3 metres of space behind it).

 

[Anonymous]

Prime Cuts:
Hey peoples,

I've just ordered my first home theatre system, jumped on Monitor Audio RX6 bargin. For rears i order the RXFX, however i am now thinking that maybe i should have got the RX1's.

I have corner lounge which is hard up against the rear wall. I was planning to mount the rear speakers to to side walls (for a clean finish) about 250mm off the rear wall, I cannot come out any further due to where the windows are.

Will Bi/Di Pole speakers work firing this close to the rear wall? Should i have got the RX1's instead for this position?

Another options is to use speaker stands, and position them slightly more forward of the sitting position.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you

BI/DI POL. Speakrs works great in a big room's with the speakrs located about 2 meter away from the seating postion in both side&back direction , anything closer than that , you will not hear the benifit from thise speakers , u might as well save your self some money and just buy direct radiating conventional speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

marco_1:
BI/DI POL. Speakrs works great in a big room's with the speakrs located about 2 meter away from the seating postion in both side&back direction , anything closer than that , you will not hear the benifit from thise speakers , u might as well save your self some money and just buy direct radiating conventional speakers.

This is just not true. Dipoles are meant to be used as surround speakers, that means next to the seating position, not 2 metres behind it (that is where you would place direct firing rear speakers).

My dipoles are positioned like that and it's very difficult to pinpoint where they are exactly. Like most dipoles, they can be switched to direct mode. When I experimented with that I found that it became much easier to locate them. It didn't make much of a difference when they were playing direct sounds (helicopters or bullets flying by in movies), but the effect where they fill my lounge with ambient sounds was completely lost in direct mode.

 

[Anonymous]

marco_1:
BI/DI POL. Speakrs works great in a big room's with the speakrs located about 2 meter away from the seating postion in both side&back direction , anything closer than that , you will not hear the benifit from thise speakers , u might as well save your self some money and just buy direct radiating conventional speakers.

Actualy the RXFX bi/dipoles are cheaper then the RX1.

FrankHarveyHiFi:

I'm not sure how well they'd perform on the ceiling, as I've never
heard any mounted that way! I'm also not sure how well they would be
secured - they're the usually key lock type hook on affairs, so they
might work loose after a while with the vibration! Probably not
recommended....

Lol sorry i should have made myself
clearer. I can mount a right angle bracket to the ceiling and then the
speaker to the bracket, so it is still positioned towards the listener
as if it were wall mounted.

It sounds like Bi/Di Poles are the way to go, i might try what KevinOk said, and toe them in a little, with dampening material inside the grill facing the wall.

If i am unhappy with the way this sounds, i might try the other ideas mentioned. Just to clarify, there is no problem with having the surounds slighty in front of the listener?

 

[Anonymous]

KevinOK:
This is just not true. Dipoles are meant to be used as surround speakers, that means next to the seating position, not 2 metres behind it (that is where you would place direct firing rear speakers).

Thats what my understand was.

How high do you have your Dipoles Kevin? Are you only set up for 5.1?

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, 5.1. Mine are 1.5 metres high. About 30 cm above my ears (when seated

).

There are many reports of people getting good results from higher positions than that though. That is not possible in my lounge since one of the dipoles is in the middle of my oddly shaped lounge. But if I could, I would certainly experiment with higher positions for them.

 

[Anonymous]

KevinOK:marco_1:
BI/DI POL. Speakrs works great in a big room's with the speakrs located about 2 meter away from the seating postion in both side&back direction , anything closer than that , you will not hear the benifit from thise speakers , u might as well save your self some money and just buy direct radiating conventional speakers.

This is just not true. Dipoles are meant to be used as surround speakers, that means next to the seating position, not 2 metres behind it (that is where you would place direct firing rear speakers).

My dipoles are positioned like that and it's very difficult to pinpoint where they are exactly. Like most dipoles, they can be switched to direct mode. When I experimented with that I found that it became much easier to locate them. It didn't make much of a difference when they were playing direct sounds (helicopters or bullets flying by in movies), but the effect where they fill my lounge with ambient sounds was completely lost in direct mode.

When i said 2 meter away that was ment for both the BI/DI Pole. being placed on SIDE WALL ,but if we talk about them separatly , YES u can place BI/POL. on the BACK WALL ,but the closer you are to them the more they going to sound JUST like any direct conventional speakers

 

[Anonymous]

marco_1:KevinOK:marco_1:
BI/DI POL. Speakrs works great in a big room's with the speakrs located about 2 meter away from the seating postion in both side&back direction , anything closer than that , you will not hear the benifit from thise speakers , u might as well save your self some money and just buy direct radiating conventional speakers.

This is just not true. Dipoles are meant to be used as surround speakers, that means next to the seating position, not 2 metres behind it (that is where you would place direct firing rear speakers).

My dipoles are positioned like that and it's very difficult to pinpoint where they are exactly. Like most dipoles, they can be switched to direct mode. When I experimented with that I found that it became much easier to locate them. It didn't make much of a difference when they were playing direct sounds (helicopters or bullets flying by in movies), but the effect where they fill my lounge with ambient sounds was completely lost in direct mode.

When i said 2 meter away that was ment for both the BI/DI Pole. being placed on SIDE WALL ,but if we talk about them separatly , YES u can place BI/POL. on the BACK WALL ,but the closer you are to them the more they going to sound JUST like any direct conventional speakers

I don't get where you're going. Maybe I misunderstood. In your first post you said they should be 2 metres away both to the side and to the rear of the seating position. I don't think this is correct.

In the second post you're talking about the speakers position relatively to side and rear walls. That obviously does matter, it makes sense to position them away from walls when possible, but to say it's useless to get dipoles in a position close to a wall is an overstatement. There are a few possible fixes, like the ones suggested in this thread. Even *without* the fix I suggested, my dipoles still work better in dipole mode than in direct mode.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Prime Cuts:Lol sorry i should have made myself clearer. I can mount a right angle bracket to the ceiling and then the speaker to the bracket, so it is still positioned towards the listener as if it were wall mounted.

Aah, I see

It sounds like Bi/Di Poles are the way to go, i might try what KevinOk said, and toe them in a little, with dampening material inside the grill facing the wall.

If i am unhappy with the way this sounds, i might try the other ideas mentioned. Just to clarify, there is no problem with having the surounds slighty in front of the listener?

Ideally, either side is better, but slightly forward or back can still work well.

 

[Anonymous]

KevinOK:marco_1:KevinOK:marco_1:
BI/DI POL. Speakrs works great in a big room's with the speakrs located about 2 meter away from the seating postion in both side&back direction , anything closer than that , you will not hear the benifit from thise speakers , u might as well save your self some money and just buy direct radiating conventional speakers.

This is just not true. Dipoles are meant to be used as surround speakers, that means next to the seating position, not 2 metres behind it (that is where you would place direct firing rear speakers).

My dipoles are positioned like that and it's very difficult to pinpoint where they are exactly. Like most dipoles, they can be switched to direct mode. When I experimented with that I found that it became much easier to locate them. It didn't make much of a difference when they were playing direct sounds (helicopters or bullets flying by in movies), but the effect where they fill my lounge with ambient sounds was completely lost in direct mode.

When i said 2 meter away that was ment for both the BI/DI Pole. being placed on SIDE WALL ,but if we talk about them separatly , YES u can place BI/POL. on the BACK WALL ,but the closer you are to them the more they going to sound JUST like any direct conventional speakers

I don't get where you're going. Maybe I misunderstood. In your first post you said they should be 2 metres away both to the side and to the rear of the seating position. I don't think this is correct.

In the second post you're talking about the speakers position relatively to side and rear walls. That obviously does matter, it makes sense to position them away from walls when possible, but to say it's useless to get dipoles in a position close to a wall is an overstatement. There are a few possible fixes, like the ones suggested in this thread. Even *without* the fix I suggested, my dipoles still work better in dipole mode than in direct mode.

KavinOK

Bi/pol. and Di/pol. they are two differnts things and they works
differnetly they should idealy be placed on side walls , but BI/POL. are more flexible with speakers placment, because the speakrs are working (in phase) with each other. i can post you some link if you are interrested in reading about the subject....

I
have seen you mentioned that is your bi/pol speakers are only 30CM above your ears level when you seating, i suppose that you are seating against back wall as well?...iam amazed if you can her any differents

 

[Anonymous]

Yes I appreciate the difference between dipoles and bipoles, thank you.

I have not mentioned bipoles once in this thread since I have no experience with them, and because they're so different. I still don't see what that has to do with having to place dipoles about 2 meters behind the listening position like you said. It is common knowledge that bipoles can be used as rear speakers though.

Edit: it is exactly because of the difference between di and bipole configurations that it's confusing to talk about "di/bipole" speakers. Granted, the OP did so because his speakers of choice can operate in both modes, but then so did you, only adding to the confusion since the OP was talking about positioning them next to the listening position, where they should clearly be used in dipole setting. In other words: I don't feel bipoles are relevant in this thread.

 

[Anonymous]

KevinOK:
I have not mentioned bipoles once in this thread since I have no experience with them

That was ment for your Di/pol. but anyway iam still amazed that u can hear the differents with the speakers located so close to your ears...