Bi-curious? Hmm.

[Jim-W]

This is a weird one and I'll be as brief as I can. It's about bi-wirng which, after 40+ years of hi-fi experience and tinkering, I don't believe offers any improvement in sound qualityhysics supports this view and you can read a million articles on the net debunking hi-fi myths which I tend to find conclusive because I'm no scientist. Quite the reverse, in fact.

OK. Small room, used as an office, about 7 feet by 13 feet, thought it would be nice to have record player etc in but limited expectations because of size of room, speaker placement etc and it's not my main system. Speakers fire down the room from tight up to the walls and corners-there's no alternative so I used a Quad 34/fm4/306 which has decent tone controls to help minimise bass boom. Not ideal, but it sounds fine for a thrown together system. Speakers are the old MA BR's (on decent stands) and record player is an old Revolver with Jelco arm and AT 110e cart.

The wiring was QED balanced concept speaker cable about £3 per metre at a guess; I had replaced the jumpers in the MA's with QED cable so it was single cable feeding in. Yesterday I replaced the QED with some ancient Audioquest hyperlitz Indigo directional (!) bi-wiring cable that I found in the loft; some of you may remember that this is solid copper and not multi-stranded cable. I expected to hear no difference whatsoever because I don't believe expensive cables and bi-wiring make any difference.Yes, you don't want bell wire but I've always thought that £3 a metre stuff is adequate and that bi-wiring is a hi-fi myth propagated by manufacterers keen on selling 'snake oil.'

You know what's coming:it did indeed sound different. Even given the limited space,there was more air, more clarity, more openness, more height and more width to the sound. I don't expect depth because the speakers are hard up against the walls, but there was a discernible improvement in sq.It's not about cleaning terminals by changing wires either because these terminals and cables were relatively recently cleaned.

Is the Audioquest cable 'magic'? Have I got golden ears? Is the science wrong? Is it synergy? I really don't want to open another boring 'to bi-wire or not to bi-wire' debate but if you have any ideas I'd welcome them.

Thanks for reading this.

 

[MakkaPakka]

Why don't you just get some bass traps to get rid of the bass boom. Will work much better than tone controls or cables.

 

[Jim-W]

Why don't you just get some bass traps to get rid of the bass boom. Will work much better than tone controls or cables.

Thanks, Makka. Good advice, but I think this room is too small for bass traps. Surprisingly, It's not really that boomy tbh.

Cheers.

 

[Vladimir]

Hi Jim,

Bi-wiring can improve perceived sound. And thats the end of that old conundrum. Physics and Psychoacoustics happily in bed together.

As for your bass booming issue, have you tried tilting the speakers by a small degree backwards. I have by screwing the back speaker stand spikes shorter than the front. The speaker cabinets are screwed firmly to the stands so I have no problem of them falling off. If you don't have screws maybe using small blobs of bluetack between the cabinet and the stand's top plate will keep them from sliding back once you tilt the stands.

You may also consider filling the stands with play sand or kitty litter or attabites to improve bass deffinition.

Inserting foam plugs in the bass reflex ports or adding dampening material in the speaker cabinets are also alternatives.

Cheers,

Vlad

 

[gramps23]

I suspect the difference in sound might be down to the change in cables, rather than the bi-wiring. Would be interesting to compare a single run of the Audioquest cables against the QED's - any chance that you could be bothered to give it a go, just for curiousity's sake!?

 

[davedotco]

I have often found that solid core cable has a slightly different character to it than stranded cable, not necessarily better or worse, just different.

You may find that, after a while, switching back to the stranded cable, it sounds 'better' than the solid core. Such results are not unusual, just our brains trying to adjust to a slightly different emphasis.

When stuck for speaker cable I sometimes just use the two runs from 15amp twin and earth, loosely twisted together, works very well.

 

[Jim-W]

Thanks for taking the time to reply and offer info.

Thanks, Vlad-speaker stands are filld with sand and boom is not really a issue. I will try tilting back though.

Yes, it is a question of perception as you and I think and nothing to do with bi-wiring but more to do with the sound of a different cable. I would love to run a single wire Audioquest test but it's an enclosed cable into banana plugs and it's too faffy. Good idea though.

'Perceived' differences and our brains eh? I'm sure we hi-fi nerds could wtite a book about that.

Thanks again.

Jim

 

[Vladimir]

I used my Audioquest Type4 to bi-wire my speakers and I heard a significant improvement. The voice in my OCD head finally shut up and I could listen to some music. Otherwise I kept thinking "biwire? nah. hmm maybe? why not... cant be worse, only better and it looks cooler...." :wall:

 

[Jim-W]

'The voice in my OCD head finally shut up and I could listen to some music. '

I laughed at this; laughed because I recognised it only too well. Just like toothpaste in supermarkets, there's too much choice and it becomes a nightmare. I don't want choice; I just want one that works properly. Oh and nobody can have a better one. I'm a utlitarian kinda guy.

Regards.

 

[danny86]

Hi there,

I had my Monitor Audio RX6 biwired for about half a year now. Yesterday I felt like experimenting single wire based on all the skeptical input on many forums I read through recently.

To keep the long story short, after starting up the amp again in single wire I felt like I downgraded my speakers and quite significantly (me being otherwise very happy with the RX6).

The soundstage was significantly lower and everything sounded "muddy". Instruments were all over the place. I even set my DACMagic back to Linear phase filter from Minimum and still sounded muddy (in biwiring mode, I keep the DAC on Minimum as Linear is a bit on the harsh side).

That being said, once I reach home this evening I will put them back in bi-wiring mode ASAP. Biwiring is also what Monitor Audio Technical support recommended (and they are not a cable company).

So, that being said, I have not done comparative testing regarding bi-wiring on other systems however for mine it is a night and day difference.

There are a lot of skeptics around biwiring and all the conspiracy theory concerning cable companies but at the end of the day for a 20$ upgrade nobody will break the bank so it's worth at least trying.

Btw, I also have Audioquest cable.

 

[abacus]

The manufactures of passive speakers design their crossovers so that they match the drive units and cabinets, including the interaction between the LPF and HPF filters, however if you bi-wire you add additional resistance (Small) between the LPF and HPF which will vary with cable length and thus unpredictable results can occur, however one thing is certain, the speaker will not be producing the sound that the manufacture intended.

Bi-amping on the other hand totally isolates the LPF and HPF so that both can work at their best, and is the reason you hear a difference in the sound. (Basically you are creating an active speaker minus the electronic crossover which remains passive)

If you believe you hear a difference that sounds better when bi wiring then by all means use it, however moving your speakers a couple of inches will elicit a much greater change then bi-wiring, so unless you have some cables lying around (Which the OP has) it’s not worth worrying about. (It can actually make things worse)

Bill

 

[davedotco]

The manufactures of passive speakers design their crossovers so that they match the drive units and cabinets, including the interaction between the LPF and HPF filters, however if you bi-wire you add additional resistance (Small) between the LPF and HPF which will vary with cable length and thus unpredictable results can occur, however one thing is certain, the speaker will not be producing the sound that the manufacture intended.

Bi-amping on the other hand totally isolates the LPF and HPF so that both can work at their best, and is the reason you hear a difference in the sound. (Basically you are creating an active speaker minus the electronic crossover which remains passive)

If you believe you hear a difference that sounds better when bi wiring then by all means use it, however moving your speakers a couple of inches will elicit a much greater change then bi-wiring, so unless you have some cables lying around (Which the OP has) it’s not worth worrying about. (It can actually make things worse)

Bill

Er no, you are not. Not in any way, shape or form.

All you are doing is spending money on an extra power amplifier and cables for what is, at best, a minimal improvement.

Just buy a better amplifier.

 

[Vladimir]

I've participated in many bi-wiring cables threads and the ones that didin't steer away from constructive conversation always came to an interesting conclusion. Its not the double length of wire that produces the effect but removing the bi-wiring links and using the speaker wire. You can even buy wire links to replace the factory plates.

Other option that is always a possibility besides placebo is the fact contacts oxidize and the simple cable swaping and screwing-unscrewing refreshes the contacts and the user gets an impression the actual cabling layout is the reson for improvement.

Either way, do whatever keeps you calm and at least once a year, uplug and unscrew everything on your electronics and speakers to keep the contacts fresh.

 

[danny86]

Might be specific to Monitor Audio (and in particular to the RX6, I noticed another used reporting similar results), the difference is too dramatic not to take advantage of.

Here is the quote from their technical support team:

You will definitely notice a difference bi-wiring. It does make a difference and will create a clean, more spacious sound.

I was very skeptical about the "definitely" but in reality the difference is huge. And for the better.

So what I would recommend anyone is to go to the manufacturer - they created the stuff after all, they should know best.

 

[Jim-W]

Thanks for ongoing comments. Yep, more spacious and more power/ clarity; by this I mean the amp doesn't sound like it's trying too hard. I'm not going back to single-wiring and I always, without fail, revert back to an original set-up after faffing about and changing things round. I'm just wondering whether to bi-wire some other stuff as well, but I'm beginning to learn to leave well alone...for a month or so!

Nex upgrade will be a new belt for Revolver tt and a nice Nagoka cart.

Thanks again.

 

[abacus]

The manufactures of passive speakers design their crossovers so that they match the drive units and cabinets, including the interaction between the LPF and HPF filters, however if you bi-wire you add additional resistance (Small) between the LPF and HPF which will vary with cable length and thus unpredictable results can occur, however one thing is certain, the speaker will not be producing the sound that the manufacture intended.

Bi-amping on the other hand totally isolates the LPF and HPF so that both can work at their best, and is the reason you hear a difference in the sound. (Basically you are creating an active speaker minus the electronic crossover which remains passive)

If you believe you hear a difference that sounds better when bi wiring then by all means use it, however moving your speakers a couple of inches will elicit a much greater change then bi-wiring, so unless you have some cables lying around (Which the OP has) it’s not worth worrying about. (It can actually make things worse)

Bill

Er no, you are not. Not in any way, shape or form.

All you are doing is spending money on an extra power amplifier and cables for what is, at best, a minimal improvement.

Just buy a better amplifier.

An active speaker is a set of amplifiers matched to the drive units and the signal sent to them via an electronic crossover.

Bi-amping give separate control of the drive units, but still uses passive LPF and HPF filters, however because the amplifiers are not tuned to the drive units the difference will be not as great as a full active speaker, but it will still be easily noticeable.

Bill

 

[Thompsonuxb]

lol... 40years?.... thats a long time.....

oh & there is nowt wrong with a good old cable debate.....

 

[davedotco]

The manufactures of passive speakers design their crossovers so that they match the drive units and cabinets, including the interaction between the LPF and HPF filters, however if you bi-wire you add additional resistance (Small) between the LPF and HPF which will vary with cable length and thus unpredictable results can occur, however one thing is certain, the speaker will not be producing the sound that the manufacture intended.

Bi-amping on the other hand totally isolates the LPF and HPF so that both can work at their best, and is the reason you hear a difference in the sound. (Basically you are creating an active speaker minus the electronic crossover which remains passive)

If you believe you hear a difference that sounds better when bi wiring then by all means use it, however moving your speakers a couple of inches will elicit a much greater change then bi-wiring, so unless you have some cables lying around (Which the OP has) it’s not worth worrying about. (It can actually make things worse)

Bill

Er no, you are not. Not in any way, shape or form.

All you are doing is spending money on an extra power amplifier and cables for what is, at best, a minimal improvement.

Just buy a better amplifier.

An active speaker is a set of amplifiers matched to the drive units and the signal sent to them via an electronic crossover.

Bi-amping give separate control of the drive units, but still uses passive LPF and HPF filters, however because the amplifiers are not tuned to the drive units the difference will be not as great as a full active speaker, but it will still be easily noticeable.

Bill

In my experience the positive advantage gained by passive bi-amping is negligable.

I have heard what I have taken to be 'noticeable differences' on occasions but they are not repeatable and reverting back to a conventional setup often shows no difference.

That is the experience of a dealer who has done the dem on a fair number of occasions, bi-amping is an attractive idea but does not seem to work effectively. There are others on this forum who clearly think differently, c'est la vie.