Bi amp or not?

[leob7888]

Hi everyone!

I am writing to know if it is worth doing a bi-amp or not to my speakers.
System:
Speakers L/R : Monitor Audio Silver 200
Sub: Rel HT 1003
Receiver: Marantz SR 5013

Do you think that doing a bi-amp will improve the sound quality or make any difference?

 

[Gray]

Hi everyone!

I am writing to know if it is worth doing a bi-amp or not to my speakers.
System:
Speakers L/R : Monitor Audio Silver 200
Sub: Rel HT 1003
Receiver: Marantz SR 5013

Do you think that doing a bi-amp will improve the sound quality or make any difference?

Do you mean by using the AV amp?
If you're not using all its channels, why not put it in stereo mode and give biamping a go?
With '180' W per channel available, check the speaker specs and maybe go easy on the volume.

 

[leob7888]

Do you mean by using the AV amp?
If you're not using all its channels, why not put it in stereo mode and give biamping a go?
With '180' W per channel available, check the speaker specs and maybe go easy on the volume.

Hi Gray!

Thanks for you answer!
Yes, the Marantz SR 5013 it seems to have a special setup for bi amp by connecting the high level signal of the speaker to the surround back entrance in the receiver and the low level to front R/L entrances in the receiver.
My system for now it has a 2.1 configuration so I´m able to do it cause as you said, I´m not using all channels.
What do you mean with this "With '180' W per channel available, check the speaker specs and maybe go easy on the volume".
My speaker specs are:

System Format
21/2-way
Frequency Response (-6 dB)
38 Hz – 35 kHz
Sensitivity (1W@1M)
89 dB
Nominal Impedance
8 ohms
Minimum Impedance
4.7 ohms @ 182 Hz
Maximum SPL
114 dBA (pair)
Power Handling (RMS)
150 W
Recommended Amplifier Requirements
60 – 150 W

I appreciate your help!

 

[Gray]

Hi Gray!

Thanks for you answer!
Yes, the Marantz SR 5013 it seems to have a special setup for bi amp by connecting the high level signal of the speaker to the surround back entrance in the receiver and the low level to front R/L entrances in the receiver.
My system for now it has a 2.1 configuration so I´m able to do it cause as you said, I´m not using all channels.
What do you mean with this "With '180' W per channel available, check the speaker specs and maybe go easy on the volume".
My speaker specs are:

System Format
21/2-way
Frequency Response (-6 dB)
38 Hz – 35 kHz
Sensitivity (1W@1M)
89 dB
Nominal Impedance
8 ohms
Minimum Impedance
4.7 ohms @ 182 Hz
Maximum SPL
114 dBA (pair)
Power Handling (RMS)
150 W
Recommended Amplifier Requirements
60 – 150 W

I appreciate your help!

You can see from the spec that your speakers can handle 150 Watts.
Your Marantz is quoted as giving 180 W per channel.
So even now (when driving them with a single channel each) you're exceeding the guideline maximum figure.
It is only a guideline though and in practice plenty of people exceed the max to some extent.
However, by bi-amping, you can can potentially give your speakers quite a bit more power than they'd like - which is why I said to go easy on the volume! Keep it sounding clean, any sign of audible distortion, back off.

Give it a try in in its 2.1 bi-amp stereo mode.
(Don't forget to remove the speaker terminal links).
Things should at least sound more effortless with the extra power.

 

[12th Monkey]

I wouldn't get too hung up on the numbers - my amp is considerably more powerful than the speakers' recommended range, as long as you do as Gray suggests and avoid distortion.

Biamping should give greater control of both drivers through division of labour. It should sound more natural in the treble and mid and taughten up the bass a little.

 

[Jimboo]

Hi everyone!

I am writing to know if it is worth doing a bi-amp or not to my speakers.
System:
Speakers L/R : Monitor Audio Silver 200
Sub: Rel HT 1003
Receiver: Marantz SR 5013

Do you think that doing a bi-amp will improve the sound quality or make any difference?

I think extra good quality cables and interconnects coupled with a mains filter and perhaps a specific rack for the extra necessary extra amplification will definitely cure what ever specific unspecified problems you feel the lack of outlay in the past will bring.
At least trebling the cost of amplification is guaranteed to instantly transform any system in any room and bring out the very best of any recording.
I would start with changing your fuses.
Or maybe decide what you think is missing and audition some other speakers and components and their positions in your room.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

I think extra good quality cables and interconnects coupled with a mains filter and perhaps a specific rack for the extra necessary extra amplification will definitely cure what ever specific unspecified problems you feel the lack of outlay in the past will bring.
At least trebling the cost of amplification is guaranteed to instantly transform any system in any room and bring out the very best of any recording.
I would start with changing your fuses.
Or maybe decide what you think is missing and audition some other speakers and components and their positions in your room.

OP, this post is a wind-up, it should have had an obligatory at the end.

 

[12th Monkey]

It's not a very helpful way to address a newcomer though. It's one thing to chuck humour at someone you've interacted with, but that comes across as rather mean-spirited to me.

 

[TrevC]

Biamping passively doesn't result in any power gain or anything else really, you're just using twice as many amplifiers to achieve the power of just one. Like biwiring, it's pointless. If you don't like the sound have a listen to different speakers, the other suggestions from Jimbo above won't bring about any improvement. I see he might have been joking, but should have made that clearer.

 

[Jimboo]

Given the nature of the forum and recent posts,points and beliefs 50% will consider my suggestions as de- rigure.
I have merely pointed out the more common sense approach and as such is not a joke.
Any comments as to why one part of my post is plain wrong compared to the other section are welcomed.

 

[Gray]

Biamping passively doesn't result in any power gain or anything else really, you're just using twice as many amplifiers to achieve the power of just one. Like biwiring, it's pointless. If you don't like the sound have a listen to different speakers, the other suggestions from Jimbo above won't bring about any improvement. I see he might have been joking, but should have made that clearer.

I think you know this already Trev, but let's be clear.
Nobody here has suggested that passively bi-amping will give anything like the benefits of genuinely, actively bi-amping.
As for being as pointless as bi-wiring.....
Let's face it, in this case, even a blind tester would hear a difference and I'm sure you know they would.
Again, nobody has told him to buy extra amps. He's got spare channels doing nothing. Nothing more to be said.

 

[TrevC]

I think you know this already Trev, but let's be clear.
Nobody here has suggested that passively bi-amping will give anything like the benefits of genuinely, actively bi-amping.
As for being as pointless as bi-wiring.....
Let's face it, in this case, even a blind tester would hear a difference and I'm sure you know they would.
Again, nobody has told him to buy extra amps. He's got spare channels doing nothing. Nothing more to be said.

Let's face it there will be no difference. Why would you expect one?

 

[Gray]

Given the nature of the forum and recent posts,points and beliefs 50% will consider my suggestions as de- rigure.
I have merely pointed out the more common sense approach and as such is not a joke.
Any comments as to why one part of my post is plain wrong compared to the other section are welcomed.

Jimboo, unless they're blown, the idea of fuse changes being beneficial to sound quality.....
That's what attracts a feeling of disbelief and contempt from the majority of people and it always will.
EDIT ignore the above from me Jimboo, see post #16.

 

[Gray]

Let's face it there will be no difference. Why would you expect one?

....perhaps because there will be another 2x '180'W connected to his speakers that wasn't there before.
If you don't think you would hear that at all .........you ain't that stupid Trev.
Anyway, nothing more to say really is there?

 

[Jimboo]

Gray , mate . Please stop the emphasis on the fuses the majority of the early part of the post is just as ridiculous as the fuse suggestions.
It would help if you read it in context and realised that I am merely holding up a mirror to show the forums reflection. The majority of hi fi beliefs leave me with disbelief and contempt. And yet here are the purveyors on this very thread complaining that advice given in my post has several threads with those very beliefs over pages and pages at one time or another on this very forum.The forum doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[Gray]

Gray , mate . Please stop the emphasis on the fuses the majority of the early part of the post is just as ridiculous as the fuse suggestions.
It would help if you read it in context and realised that I am merely holding up a mirror to show the forums reflection. The majority of hi fi beliefs leave me with disbelief and contempt. And yet here are the purveyors on this very thread complaining that advice given in my post has several threads with those very beliefs over pages and pages at one time or another on this very forum.The forum doth protest too much, methinks.

Sorry Jimboo, I read your post too quickly. Your sarcasm convinced me into thinking you were genuinely advising the OP in the first part!
Forgive my stupidity. (I'll be swapping fuses next).

 

[TrevC]

....perhaps because there will be another 2x '180'W connected to his speakers that wasn't there before.
If you don't think you would hear that at all .........you ain't that stupid Trev.
Anyway, nothing more to say really is there?

No, you are incorrect, there will only be the same power available as there was before when there was just one amplifier. Why? Because both amplifiers are producing exactly the same output voltage as one was before. Of course the bass output won't be used by the woofer on one amp and the treble/ midrange output won't be used on the other amp, but they will both be reproducing the full signal and will clip at the same point that the one amplifier on its own clipped before.

The only way to get more power (who needs more power than 180 watts!) is to buy another amplifier with a higher wattage output and use it on its own.

 

[12th Monkey]

Again, I wonder what the OP will be thinking about this bickering - nothing good, I suspect.

I'd have thought that biamping would yield benefit - it's like using a stereo amp to power two speakers - both benefit from their own channel of amplification - they aren't bridged because only one speaker is connected. I'd have thought that the same was true of an AV amp.

leob7888, give it a bash and tell us what you think.

 

[12th Monkey]

Gray, not speechless are you?

 

[Gray]

No, you are incorrect, there will only be the same power available as there was before when there was just one amplifier. Why? Because both amplifiers are producing exactly the same output voltage as one was before. Of course the bass output won't be used by the woofer on one amp and the treble/ midrange output won't be used on the other amp, but they will both be reproducing the full signal and will clip at the same point that the one amplifier on its own clipped before.

The only way to get more power (who needs more power than 180 watts!) is to buy another amplifier with a higher wattage output and use it on its own.

At present the AxV power of one amp is being shared (albeit unevenly) by HF and LF with links in place.
With links removed and the AxV power of an additional amp applied, unshared......surely there is more overall power available. Yes, I would expect the o/p voltage of each amp to be the same and maybe for them to clip together (although their loads won't be identical).

 

[Gray]

Gray, not speechless are you?

No the quote system went wrong Simon
I get your point as to how these things look to original posters.
(Especially when cable / fuse debates spark off).
Trev's point would mean the OP was wasting his time, so we're merely discussing that.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi everyone!

I am writing to know if it is worth doing a bi-amp or not to my speakers.
System:
Speakers L/R : Monitor Audio Silver 200
Sub: Rel HT 1003
Receiver: Marantz SR 5013

Do you think that doing a bi-amp will improve the sound quality or make any difference?

What crossover point are you using for the mains and the sub please?

 

[Jimboo]

Again, I wonder what the OP will be thinking about this bickering - nothing good, I suspect.

I'd have thought that biamping would yield benefit - it's like using a stereo amp to power two speakers - both benefit from their own channel of amplification - they aren't bridged because only one speaker is connected. I'd have thought that the same was true of an AV amp.

leob7888, give it a bash and tell us what you think.

Hopefully he is thinking I might listen first before I buy and evaluate what he actually wants against his budget and what he hears.
Bickering is what we do monkey. Then again buddy using terms such as ' I'd have thought' or spend good hard money on ' give it a bash' honestly also helps little. The good thing about our little spats is that it is good news for newbie's. Otherwise, blanket statements , what hi fi reviews and our own beliefs and ideas may be questioned when the poster has a little think and does some actual listening before purchase.

 

[Jimboo]

Sorry Jimboo, I read your post too quickly. Your sarcasm convinced me into thinking you were genuinely advising the OP in the first part!
Forgive my stupidity. (I'll be swapping fuses next).

Good god chap nothing to apologise for. However ridiculous the first part of my post maybe, to a point they have all been given on this forum as facts and solutions.

 

[12th Monkey]

As he's already using the amp in question, there's no money to spend. This is made clear in the thread.

Offering up different viewpoints with a degree of resect for those with whom you disagree is fine - bickering is what children do.