Better mastered music could be on the way!

[Overdose]

Then I'll agree to differ.

That's fine, we can't all always agree, but it's not me that you have a differing opinion to on this matter, it's the law.

 

[Alec]

Then I'll agree to differ.

That's fine, we can't all always agree, but it's not me that you have a differing opinion to on this matter, it's the law.

I'm not sure it is. I'm not sure "piracy" is used in law either, except where Jack Sparrer types are concerned.

 

[Alec]

"Music piracy is the copying and distributing of copies of a piece of music for which the composer, recording artist, or copyright-holding record company did not give consent."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_music_piracy#Arguments_over_legality

 

[Overdose]

"Music piracy is the copying and distributing of copies of a piece of music for which the composer, recording artist, or copyright-holding record company did not give consent."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_music_piracy#Arguments_over_legality

Absolutely right. And the artist/label, whoever, did not consent to someone ripping in effect a free copy of their music. No different to borrowing CDs and copying. The end result is an additional unpaid for copy created and distributed.

Lack of comprehension and ignorance is no defence for non compliance.

 

[Overdose]

Anyway, apologies to the OP and others for going off track.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

So can anybody tell me what the dynamic range of those 'crippled' Linn mp3s are?

These are the results for the Day 8 track 'Sunbeam Melts The Hour' by RM Hubbert.

These are the results for the Day 5 track 'House On The Hill' by Emma Pollock.

So what does that mean in the context of http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/ 's DR ratings?

seeing that nobody really answered your question before JD maybe I'll try.

the first picture; RM Hubert - DR 7.5 dB (studio master), as you can see on the scale this is bad result.

the second picture; Emma Pollock - DR 11dB (also studio master), this is better but again, as you can see it's quite poor result, only half way the scale.

so despite the fact 24 bit format is used, which offers huge DR headroom, DR of those recordings is quite squashed, especially in case of the first song. I don't think it's due to using of digital clipping, as we don't see chopped peaks (in case of 24bit files) on Steve's graphs, but definitely during mastering process compressors (a type of effect filter) were used. why I think so? because there's no f***ing way unamplified/ live music could be contained within just 10dB of DR!!! (unless it's some sort of avantgarde humming with your lips shut). and this is exactly my point from the very beginning of this thread. I'd like the music be recorded and produced with maintaining the full, live DR. it doesn't really matter to me if it's going to be 24 bit or 16 bit format (as you can see for the purpose of capturing musical events 16 bit offer DR in spades and then some).

and now's time for a bit of preachin' :twisted:

a few dozens of pages ago I was referring to old recordings of Dire Staits as one of the best examples how to do things right. check this out!

http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/index.php?search_artist=dire+straits&search_album=brothers+in+arms

please note the difference in DR between 1985 master (definitely "only" 16bit) and then 2005 re-mater. 16dB vs. just 8dB average for the album. and whooping 20dB vs. 11dB for the most dynamic song. even 13dB for the least dynamic song on this album is quite a lot compared to modern standards. also note there's a SACD version from 2005. funny thing about is that even though SACD offers similar level of DR as 24bit file they compressed that master somewhat as well compared to the original version :rofl: .

 

[Alec]

"Music piracy is the copying and distributing of copies of a piece of music for which the composer, recording artist, or copyright-holding record company did not give consent."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_music_piracy#Arguments_over_legality

Absolutely right. And the artist/label, whoever, did not consent to someone ripping in effect a free copy of their music. No different to borrowing CDs and copying. The end result is an additional unpaid for copy created and distributed.

Lack of comprehension and ignorance is no defence for non compliance.

Sorry (I'm not), you completely miss the point. He isn't distributing to anyone but himself, and where do you get thousands of pounds from? He's certainly hardly one of those people "da feds" are out to get!

 

[Overdose]

"Music piracy is the copying and distributing of copies of a piece of music for which the composer, recording artist, or copyright-holding record company did not give consent."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_music_piracy#Arguments_over_legality

Absolutely right. And the artist/label, whoever, did not consent to someone ripping in effect a free copy of their music. No different to borrowing CDs and copying. The end result is an additional unpaid for copy created and distributed.

Lack of comprehension and ignorance is no defence for non compliance.

Sorry (I'm not), you completely miss the point. He isn't distributing to anyone but himself, and where do you get thousands of pounds from? He's certainly hardly one of those people "da feds" are out to get!

Got to page one and read the original post by Mirren boy.

 

[Alec]

Well, that told me...:roll:

 

[Overdose]

Well, that told me...:roll:

To save you the difficulty and to highlight what you obviously missed, the most relevant bits are in bold.

Had a huge dilemma on my hands here I am with thousands of CD’s and a small fortune spent over the years. All of a sudden I have heard music playback take a huge leap forward from down loading. The gap for me was too big to ignore on sound quality because that is what enjoying music is all about. Spent many months transferring all my CD’s to a NAZ. Sold off the whole cd based system along with the CDs and went for my current system. 24bit recordings are another step ahead of 16bit , it’s not hard to work out there is more information on 24bit to 16 bit.

 

[Alec]

Oh, I followed your instructions fine, thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

[/quote]

Given your apparent investment into hifi and music media, including your obvious enthusiasm for 24 bit recordings, I find it quite bizarre when you in effect, purport to support the music industry, but then apparently admit to piracy to the tune of thousands of pounds.

Did you really keep all of that music after selling your CDs?

Not that it matters I suppose, as this is only a forum and nothing should be taken at face value, people talk all sorts of nonsense.

[/quote]

1/If you care to go throw the thread you will read a friend has borrowed my CD collection to play on the CD he bought from me.

2/ Again if you look through the thread you will see I spend more on vinyl than downloads.

3/ The argument was put up saying there is no difference between CD quality and 24bit quality. Wrote I have both and there is most certainly a difference on playback quality.

4/ Any music I own has been paid for never downloaded free music anywhere in my life simply because I prefer a higher grade of recording, not even went for the free Linn down load music what I have is what I want not because it’s free.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry (I'm not), you completely miss the point. He isn't distributing to anyone but himself, and where do you get thousands of pounds from? He's certainly hardly one of those people "da feds" are out to get!

What a pathetic judgmental post.

 

[Overdose]

1/If you care to go throw the thread you will read a friend has borrowed my CD collection to play on the CD he bought from me.

2/ Again if you look through the thread you will see I spend more on vinyl than downloads.

3/ The argument was put up saying there is no difference between CD quality and 24bit quality. Wrote I have both and there is most certainly a difference on playback quality.

4/ Any music I own has been paid for never downloaded free music anywhere in my life simply because I prefer a higher grade of recording, not even went for the free Linn down load music what I have is what I want not because it’s free.

You sound like you're trying to convince someone, but I'm not the one that makes judgement on these matters or dishes out the punitive fines.

I'm not that interested beyond thinking that music piracy is bad news and your post reads that you sold your expensive and extensive collection of CDs having first ripped them to your NAS. Like I said, it's what you have written that I have commented on, because it reads as somewhat out of order.

If you still own the said CDs (which I questioned) then it doesn't matter does it?

 

[Anonymous]

[/quote]

You sound like you're trying to convince someone, but I'm not the one that makes judgement on these matters or dishes out the punitive fines.

I'm not that interested beyond thinking that music piracy is bad news and your post reads that you sold your expensive and extensive collection of CDs having first ripped them to your NAS. Like I said, it's what you have written that I have commented on, because it reads as somewhat out of order.

If you still own the said CDs (which I questioned) then it doesn't matter does it?

[/quote]

Your the one throwing accusations so maybe I am trying to convince you.

What this a bloody witch hunt from strangers behind the keyboard. What’s happened to the debate?

 

[Overdose]

Mirren Boy, you need to get to grips with quoting, your posts look erratic.

 

[Anonymous]

1/If you care to go throw the thread you will read a friend has borrowed my CD collection to play on the CD he bought from me.

2/ Again if you look through the thread you will see I spend more on vinyl than downloads.

3/ The argument was put up saying there is no difference between CD quality and 24bit quality. Wrote I have both and there is most certainly a difference on playback quality.

4/ Any music I own has been paid for never downloaded free music anywhere in my life simply because I prefer a higher grade of recording, not even went for the free Linn down load music what I have is what I want not because it’s free.

You sound like you're trying to convince someone, but I'm not the one that makes judgement on these matters or dishes out the punitive fines.

I'm not that interested beyond thinking that music piracy is bad news and your post reads that you sold your expensive and extensive collection of CDs having first ripped them to your NAS. Like I said, it's what you have written that I have commented on, because it reads as somewhat out of order.

If you still own the said CDs (which I questioned) then it doesn't matter does it?

Go and report it and stop making noises.

 

[Overdose]

Your the one throwing accusations so maybe I am trying to convince you.

What this a bloody witch hunt from strangers behind the keyboard. What’s happened to the debate?

Re quoting, the above post is a good example of what I meant.

No witch hunt, I was merely commenting on your statement. If the original statement was not true, or was somehow badly worded, then there are no issues. Sorry (I am) for any offence given, but I do feel quite strongly about music piracy.

 

[CnoEvil]

You sound like you're trying to convince someone, but I'm not the one that makes judgement on these matters or dishes out the punitive fines.

I'm not that interested beyond thinking that music piracy is bad news and your post reads that you sold your expensive and extensive collection of CDs having first ripped them to your NAS. Like I said, it's what you have written that I have commented on, because it reads as somewhat out of order.

If you still own the said CDs (which I questioned) then it doesn't matter does it?

As piracy goes, I've heard of a lot worse. Given that MB has (presumably) bought all of his extensive music collection (and continues to do so), he is contributing more to royalties than most.

How many of us on here are so law abiding in all aspects of life, that we can genuinely stand in judgement of others, over minor infringements of the law.

 

[Anonymous]

Your the one throwing accusations so maybe I am trying to convince you.

What this a bloody witch hunt from strangers behind the keyboard. What’s happened to the debate?

Re quoting, the above post is a good example of what I meant.

No witch hunt, I was merely commenting on your statement. If the original statement was not true, or was somehow badly worded, then there are no issues. Sorry (I am) for any offence given, but I do feel quite strongly about music piracy.

As I said you feel you want to report this please go ahead you have my permission. You and you chums here are typing away with nothing to do with the loudness – 24bit – 16bit – mp3. We even have a poster above wondering how on earth I can spend thousands on hifi. Poor show.

 

[Alec]

Sorry (I'm not), you completely miss the point. He isn't distributing to anyone but himself, and where do you get thousands of pounds from? He's certainly hardly one of those people "da feds" are out to get!

What a pathetic judgmental post.

That post was in defence of you, you idiot. Thanks for confirming everyone's suspicions.

 

[steve_1979]

This now raises more questions:

1. Can Linn not offer the more dynamic master to customers of all downloadable formats?

2. Why is there no indication of separate mastering at the point of sale (as exists with other examples of different masters)?

3. Does this mean that Linn's demonstrations of 24bit vs 16bit are compromised in that they compare two different masters instead of solely comparing two different resolutions?

+1

 

[Overdose]

You sound like you're trying to convince someone, but I'm not the one that makes judgement on these matters or dishes out the punitive fines.

I'm not that interested beyond thinking that music piracy is bad news and your post reads that you sold your expensive and extensive collection of CDs having first ripped them to your NAS. Like I said, it's what you have written that I have commented on, because it reads as somewhat out of order.

If you still own the said CDs (which I questioned) then it doesn't matter does it?

As piracy goes, I've heard of a lot worse. Given that MB has (presumably) bought all of his extensive music collection (and continues to do so), he is contributing more to royalties than most.

How many of us on here are so law abiding in all aspects of life, that we can genuinely stand in judgement of others, over minor infringements of the law.

You're right, there is a lot worse, but I find it wrong to be discussing ripping off music on a hifi forum, hypocritical certainly. I may have got the wrong end of the stick, but was only commenting on his statement, which reads that thousands of pounds worth were ripped. In any case, I don't think you can point to larger crimes as mitiigation though.

About the judgement thing, that's something the courts do.

 

[manicm]

MirrenBoy, I hope you weren't referring to me - I really did not comment on the amount you spent on your hifi. And if I had the cash and space I would too! But a good telly would be in the price as well.

And I also would rip all my music to a NAS, and sell/give away my CDs I've purchased for over 2 decades (well I'd actually keep some), and Overdose and obtuse piracy laws would not hurt my ears' conscience one bit.

Like you, those CDs will not be made available to the general public, so what's the big deal? It's not profiteering. I'm sure Overdose has stuck an old vinyl inner sleeve which reads 'HOME TAPING IS KILLING MUSIC' on his wall somewhere - skulls and all. Kudos to him.

Oh and WHF p*r*i*c*k is not a swear word if used correctly, as I wanted to instead of 'hurt' above. Eventually there'll be nothing of the Oxford dictionary we can use.

 

[CnoEvil]

About the judgement thing, that's something the courts do.

Exactly right. Judgement should be left to the courts.