Better mastered music could be on the way!

[John Duncan]

Am sure linn will have an explanation to this.

And I think they should provide one.

I think they already have John, buy the expensive one.

:roll:

 

[BenLaw]

Am sure linn will have an explanation to this.

And I think they should provide one. Perhaps some journalists could prompt them to do so...

They have once. A second would not only need to explain the findings but also the first explanation. Seems unlikely now.

 

[John Duncan]

They have once. A second would not only need to explain the findings but also the first explanation. Seems unlikely now.

Oh come on, where's that lawyerly killer instinct Ben? It's not unreasonable to cross-examine the statement - if Colin's explanation was wrong, they should say it was wrong (which I see no shame in, tbh), or demonstrate how it was right.

 

[steve_1979]

if Colin's explanation was wrong, they should say it was wrong (which I see no shame in, tbh), or demonstrate how it was right.

I was rather suprised by Linn's explanation of what's happened. I expected them to say either:

1. That it was done deliberately to sound good on portable MP3 players.

2. That they weren't aware of the problem and that they'll investigate into it to make sure it doesn't keep happening in the future.

 

[CnoEvil]

I've just tried to ABXing the MP3 and FLAC versons of the track 'House On The Hill'.

With the peak volume levels matced between the MP3 and FLAC versions it's very easy to tell the between the MP3 and FLAC versions every time in an ABX test.

With the apparent volume levels matced between the MP3 and FLAC versions it was much more difficult to tell them apart but I was still just about able to reliably pick out the MP3 version every time in an ABX test.

Here is my summary of your findings (please correct me if I'm wrong):

- The worst case of "manipulation" was in non-Linn recordings

- The sound quality of Linn's own recordings isn't called into question

- The only audible difference between Linn's MP3 and the MP3 that you created, was one of volume....so if the two MP3s versions are volume matched, they are aurally indistinguishable

- You can reliably pick the MP3 version from the Flac version of House on the Hill (with peak and apparant volume matched) - can you elaborate what it is that allows you to do this ie. Is the Flac recording superior, or is it down to something else?

- Linn's answer is a bit meh

Again, I would like to comment on the honest, straightforward and objective (non judgemental) way you have approached this. FWIW. My own view is that the mark up that Linn have for their 24 bit stuff is prohibitively high, for any perceived difference you may get.

 

[BenLaw]

It's not about killer instinct JD, I can't force them to answer. I've put the case against them ( ), it would be nice if they responded. I just suspect they won't. If WHF can get them to then great.

 

[John Duncan]

If I had Ivor's email address, I'd mail him myself

EDIT - I've contacted Gilad instead.

 

[Anonymous]

Ivor's no longer at Linn it's now his sons's company Gilad

 

[chebby]

Ivor's no longer at Linn it's now his sons's company Gilad

Hence JD's edit 16 minutes before your post.

 

[John Duncan]

Well no I think the edit was a bit later than that, but whatever. Ivor still appears to be executive chairman btw.

 

[chebby]

Well no I think the edit was a bit later than that, but whatever.

Ah. Sorry mirren boy. I'd forgotten about the mod's ability to edit a post without changing it's time.

 

[CnoEvil]

Well no I think the edit was a bit later than that, but whatever. Ivor still appears to be executive chairman btw.

You never can quite trust the young 'uns! :twisted:

 

[steve_1979]

- The worst case of "manipulation" was in non-Linn recordings

- The sound quality of Linn's own recordings isn't called into question

I'm not sure which of the recordings are Linn's own and which are not.

- The only audible difference between Linn's MP3 and the MP3 that you created, was one of volume....so if the two MP3s versions are volume matched, they are aurally indistinguishable

When they're volume matched some of the tracks (such as 'House on the Hill' and 'Sunbeam Melts The Hour') can be reliably picked out in an ABX. The differences that I hear between them are only just audiable though.

- You can reliably pick the MP3 version from the Flac version of House on the Hill (with peak and apparent volume matched) - can you elaborate what it is that allows you to do this ie. Is the Flac recording superior, or is it down to something else?

When I compare the FLAC version of 'House on the Hill' to Linn's MP3 version (with the peak volume levels matched) I can reliably pick out the MP3 version in an ABX test. Linns MP3 version has less dynamic range which makes it sound slightly louder.

When I compare the FLAC version of 'House on the Hill' to Linn's MP3 version (with the apparant volume levels matched) I can reliably pick out the MP3 version in an ABX test. Linns MP3 version has less dynamic range which makes it sound slightly flatter.

When I compare the FLAC version of 'House on the Hill' to the MP3 that I ripped myself they both sound identical and I was unable to pass the ABX tests.

- Linn's answer is a bit meh

 

[steve_1979]

It would be good if some other people tried comparing these files for themselves.

I've provided links to Audacity, Foobar (with the ABX plugin) and the LAME MP3 encoder elsewhere in this thread.

 

[John Duncan]

Well no I think the edit was a bit later than that, but whatever. Ivor still appears to be executive chairman btw.

You never can quite trust the young 'uns! :twisted:

He's a tertiary-qualified electronic/electrical engineer from my alma mater, what's not to trust?

 

[John Duncan]

It would be good if some other people tried comparing these files for themselves.

I've provided links to Audacity, Foobar (with the ABX plugin) and the LAME MP3 encoder elsewhere in this thread.

Nah, you go on yersel', as they say where I come from. Foobar is windows only anyway.

 

[CnoEvil]

He's a tertiary-qualified electronic/electrical engineer from my alma mater, what's not to trust?

Tertiary schmerchery!....don't you know the son never quite reaches the lofty heights of the famous father! :roll:

 

[CnoEvil]

Sorry double post - This vagaries of this site would do yer head in at times. :wall:

 

[Native_bon]

I usually use 24bit dither mix dwn when making a final mix dwn, Even then you loose quality. I think to get the very best of the best is to record the sound live from the mixer output to a recorder. Then you would really start to hear what the producer hears in the studio. Real dynamic range & headroom!! The music industry will not take this part way cause it could be expensive & a very long process.

At last what I have know for a long time is now open to most. Interesting thread. :clap:

 

[Phileas]

At last what I have know for a long time is now open to most.

Have you been reading this thread?

 

[CnoEvil]

@ Steve

Thank you for that.

The reason for my persistance, is that I'm trying to get my head around what is producing the audible differences, and how substantial those differences are.

For me, volume isn't an important difference, as that difference disappears once the volumes are matched.

Much more worrying is the extent to which the Dynamic Range is being messed with, and the subsquent effect that this might have.

Your patience is much appreciated

Cno

 

[John Duncan]

Tertiary schmerchery!....don't you know the son never quite reaches the lofty heights of the famous father! :roll:

As my father was apt to point out.

 

[CnoEvil]

As my father was apt to point out.

Mr. Duncan't, I think you're great......would you like a badge, or some extra Brownie Points? :shifty:

 

[John Duncan]

No, I'm over it now.

 

[Native_bon]

At last what I have know for a long time is now open to most.

Have you been reading this thread?

Oh yes I have!! Have you??.. If you read the thread you will see all my contributions to the discussion... My piont being if the original is not mastered properly not much can been done to the files or master tape at a later stage.