Best place to buy 2nd hand equipment?

[lindsayt]

Not too sure what you mean by unique, I assume you mean because it's singlular rather than non-ProAc. I agree with matching and ProAc do actually make a Studio centre speaker to match the 140's

Al ears, can you please explain why the speakers in an AV system need to be the same make and preferably the same models?

Perhaps I could quote nopianos' reply to you here because he could see what was coming, but to forestall any elongated arguments with any wind-up merchants I will simply say if you want to create a surround sound system using five different speakers each from five different manufacturers then go ahead its a free country.

What's all this nopiano and Al ears?

You have made very clear and decisive statements about NEEDING to use speakers from the same manufacturer in an AV system, with them preferably being the same model.

And when asked the very simple question "WHY?", neither of you have answered properly.

So, what is your "need to be the same manufacturer" statement based on?

An overstatement of the importance of aesthetics?

Something you've read?

Personal experience of listening tests of a mixed speaker manufacturer AV system and a non-mixed one?

Superstition?

Something else?

And Al ears I find your statement about going ahead and using five different speakers from five different manufacturers rather unrelated to the real life situation for most people. The reality is that the vast majority of speakers sold new and 2nd hand will be in pairs or in AV speaker packages. Plus having a symetrical speaker layout makes sense - especially for the 2 main fronts when they will often be used to create a soundstage across the front of the room.

So in a 5.0 system, in reality, you might be looking at three different manufacturers. 5.1 or 5.0.2= four manufacturers. 5.1.2, 7.0.2, 5.0.4 five. And so on.

 

[nopiano]

Hi guys

What's the best place or site to buy 2nd hand equipment from apart from eBay. I would like to buy the following:

-av,centre speaker and rear speakers to integrate with my hifi. This is so that I don't have to buy additional front speakers-I don't have the space.

- want to upgrade my cd player with a roksan caspian m1 cd player. I never liked the sound because it sounds to contained not open and exciting like my previous arcam set up. I know they are two different setups. I am hoping the the roksan kandy cd player is at fault and the caspian cd player will sort the problem out.

I live in London. Any advice would be great. Thanks

Aside from the suggestions of different outlets, may I offer this?

1. To match Proac fronts you heed the same make, and preferably models - though the centre will be unique. You can safely buy secondhand.

2. CD players are rarely faulty as to their sound. If you don't care for your current Roksan, I'd suggest trying to audition alternatives at a dealer first. If you are 100% sure on the model, then a good used one should be fine. I agree with tino that dealers often have used stock worth checking. Richer Sounds invariably have lots, often sold via eBay, as does Peter Tyson and others who do a lot of mail order.

Not too sure what you mean by unique, I assume you mean because it's singlular rather than non-ProAc. I agree with matching and ProAc do actually make a Studio centre speaker to match the 140's

Yes, indeed. A different model from the same brand, typically designed for landscape orientation rather than portrait. As you know, they are usually a different design to the other 4, 6 or whatever, which are usually multiples of a standard stereo pair.

 

[jonathanRD]

I assume that speaker manufacturers designing an av range of speakers will do so to ensure that they share similar characteristics in terms of their drivers and sensitivity, in order that the processed signals from the av receiver is reproduced as intended and not 'coloured' by significant diffierences in speaker design. Like anything many may not be able to tell the difference, but at least speakers from the same manufucaturer and model range will look the same. *smile*

 

[lindsayt]

jonathanRD, if they have similar characteristics then they will share the same sonic flaws. Surely, by going down the same manufacturer and preferably same model route you would be compounding the sonic flaws?

Modern AV receivers come with a microphone and a reasonable amount of signal processing power. They can measure and then take into account different sensitivities and frequency responses.

Getting all the speakers looking the same is an aesthetic consideration. That is no more of a "need" than having all 4 walls of your AV room painted the same colour.

 

[Gazzip]

Not too sure what you mean by unique, I assume you mean because it's singlular rather than non-ProAc. I agree with matching and ProAc do actually make a Studio centre speaker to match the 140's

Al ears, can you please explain why the speakers in an AV system need to be the same make and preferably the same models?

Perhaps I could quote nopianos' reply to you here because he could see what was coming, but to forestall any elongated arguments with any wind-up merchants I will simply say if you want to create a surround sound system using five different speakers each from five different manufacturers then go ahead its a free country.

What's all this nopiano and Al ears?

You have made very clear and decisive statements about NEEDING to use speakers from the same manufacturer in an AV system, with them preferably being the same model.

And when asked the very simple question "WHY?", neither of you have answered properly.

So, what is your "need to be the same manufacturer" statement based on?

An overstatement of the importance of aesthetics?

Something you've read?

Personal experience of listening tests of a mixed speaker manufacturer AV system and a non-mixed one?

Superstition?

Something else?

And Al ears I find your statement about going ahead and using five different speakers from five different manufacturers rather unrelated to the real life situation for most people. The reality is that the vast majority of speakers sold new and 2nd hand will be in pairs or in AV speaker packages. Plus having a symetrical speaker layout makes sense - especially for the 2 main fronts when they will often be used to create a soundstage across the front of the room.

So in a 5.0 system, in reality, you might be looking at three different manufacturers. 5.1 or 5.0.2= four manufacturers. 5.1.2, 7.0.2, 5.0.4 five. And so on.

I have always been told that matching centre and front L/R is very important so that the voices "gel". Is this not the case? A serious question as I have no idea (now that you ask the question) whether or not this is true.

 

[tino]

Getting all the speakers looking the same is an aesthetic consideration. That is no more of a "need" than having all 4 walls of your AV room painted the same colour.

It's kind of important if it's your shared living space as opposed to a dedicated AV room.

I've seen rooms with an accent wall colour, but never one with all walls in a different colour. That would be considered a bit odd. Probably the reason as to why these (below) didn't sell as well as the uniformly coloured cars *acute*

 

[lindsayt]

Gazzip, let's see if nopiano or Al ears answer your question...

They haven't answered mine.

 

[jonathanRD]

jonathanRD, if they have similar characteristics then they will share the same sonic flaws. Surely, by going down the same manufacturer and preferably same model route you would be compounding the sonic flaws?

Modern AV receivers come with a microphone and a reasonable amount of signal processing power. They can measure and then take into account different sensitivities and frequency responses.

Getting all the speakers looking the same is an aesthetic consideration. That is no more of a "need" than having all 4 walls of your AV room painted the same colour.

OK - I have an open mind and always willing to listen and learn - but do you mean the sonic flaws of the design of that brand & model range, or the sonic flaws caused by the combination of the speakers and the room, or something else?

 

[jonathanRD]

jonathanRD, if they have similar characteristics then they will share the same sonic flaws. Surely, by going down the same manufacturer and preferably same model route you would be compounding the sonic flaws?

Modern AV receivers come with a microphone and a reasonable amount of signal processing power. They can measure and then take into account different sensitivities and frequency responses.

Getting all the speakers looking the same is an aesthetic consideration. That is no more of a "need" than having all 4 walls of your AV room painted the same colour.

Just driven for two hours, so it's taken a few minutes for me to settle and look at this again. So you are saying that modern AV receivers will measure the different characteristics of speakers and adjust the signal based on that analysis. I can follow that.

But what about the sonic flaws you refer to, the AV receiver can either sort them out (as above), but if it can't, are you saying that choosing different speakers with a range of sonic flaws will cover all the bases - so to speak?

Or can't we just buy some speakers without sonic flaws? now I'm confused again *unknw*

Anyway my amps have warmed up now so that's me for tonight, and I won't be able to respond at all till maybe Tuesday, so excuse me lindsayt if I don't respond to any of your replies *smile*

 

[Dave_]

Gazzip, let's see if nopiano or Al ears answer your question...

They haven't answered mine.

Just maybe they've got wise to you...

http://hifisubjectivist.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=48031&p=143204&sid=03066b44b0dacdbb814d25d8a993e62a#p143184

 

[lindsayt]

Gazzip, let's see if nopiano or Al ears answer your question...

They haven't answered mine.

Just maybe they've got wise to you...

Wise to what exactly daveh75?

...And I'm still waiting for an apology from you for the extremely rude 4 letter word you called me in another thread on this forum.

 

[lindsayt]

Just driven for two hours, so it's taken a few minutes for me to settle and look at this again. So you are saying that modern AV receivers will measure the different characteristics of speakers and adjust the signal based on that analysis. I can follow that.

But what about the sonic flaws you refer to, the AV receiver can either sort them out (as above), but if it can't, are you saying that choosing different speakers with a range of sonic flaws will cover all the bases - so to speak?

Or can't we just buy some speakers without sonic flaws? now I'm confused again *unknw*

Anyway my amps have warmed up now so that's me for tonight, and I won't be able to respond at all till maybe Tuesday, so excuse me lindsayt if I don't respond to any of your replies *smile*

jonathanRD, a modern AV amp can adjust for frequency response and speaker efficiency differences.

What it can't adjust for is sonic flaws like a lack of clarity or a smoothing over of transients.

Every speaker ever made has sonic flaws.

But we could, if we wished, choose a speaker for the centre channel that is good on speech, even though it might be poor on music. For the front left and right I'd want good all-round speakers.

 

[Al ears]

Gazzip, let's see if nopiano or Al ears answer your question...

They haven't answered mine.

Just maybe they've got wise to you...

http://hifisubjectivist.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=48031&p=143204&sid=03066b44b0dacdbb814d25d8a993e62a#p143184

;-)

 

[Dave_]

...And I'm still waiting for an apology from you for the extremely rude 4 letter word you called me in another thread on this forum.

Never going to happen.

You (and your cohorts) deserved it...