Question Best DAC for MP3 Audio

[bigrobmac]

I am looking for advice from people who listen extensively to bootleg recordings and music in lossy formats.

I have a library of MP3 files, which I have spent years collecting and curating exactly as I want them to be. These are in MP3 format and I have no interest in either changing them to another format or using a streaming subscription service. However, I want them to sound as good as possible.

My current setup is laptop > DragonFly Black DAC > Focal Elegia. The headphones are easy to drive and I am happy with them, but I am considering changing the DAC for an iFi Uno or Zen DAC V2. I do not have a big budget.

How does the Uno compare with the DragonFly Black (or Red, for that matter)? Is it worth paying more for the Zen V2, or would that only really be worth it if I used high-res files?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[peter98]

DFB is known for its portability and ease of use, and the DragonFly Black offers decent performance for MP3s. It's a good starting point, especially if you value convenience where as iFi Uno is often praised for improving the soundstage and detail in audio files. It might offer a noticeable upgrade over the DragonFly Black, especially in terms of clarity and separation.

 

[Gray]

I am looking for advice from people who listen extensively to bootleg recordings and music in lossy formats.

I have a library of MP3 files, which I have spent years collecting and curating exactly as I want them to be. These are in MP3 format and I have no interest in either changing them to another format or using a streaming subscription service. However, I want them to sound as good as possible.

My current setup is laptop > DragonFly Black DAC > Focal Elegia. The headphones are easy to drive and I am happy with them, but I am considering changing the DAC for an iFi Uno or Zen DAC V2. I do not have a big budget.

How does the Uno compare with the DragonFly Black (or Red, for that matter)? Is it worth paying more for the Zen V2, or would that only really be worth it if I used high-res files?

Many thanks in advance.

You seem to be, effectively, asking for advice on a better DAC....but one that's not quite good enough to accurately reproduce compromised music 🤔

In view of that, I'd say stick with what you've got 👍

 

[Vincent Kars]

The Dragonfly Black can be found here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ioquest-dragonfly-black-dacs.2397/#post-67705

I think there is room for improvement.

 

[bigrobmac]

Thank you all for your replies.

I think my Elegia headphones are capable of more performance than I am getting from the DragonFly Black, and your replies suggest that is correct. The tricky part is knowing how much to spend before the returns diminish. For example, the DragonFly Red would almost certainly be an upgrade but I don't think it would be worth spending the extra on a Cobalt. So the Red is an option - but peter98's reply suggests that one of the iFis would be better. I had been thinking along these lines.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Uno vs the Zen DAC V2? I like the simplicity of the Uno, but is there a significant difference in sound quality that would make it worth paying approximately double for the V2? Or are there other similarly-priced alternatives I should consider?

 

[Revolutions]

You seem to be, effectively, asking for advice on a better DAC....but one that's not quite good enough to accurately reproduce compromised music 🤔

In view of that, I'd say stick with what you've got 👍

I agree here - maybe something to tweak the eq that might be more effective than a different dac? In my experience, small changes in the mids can have a huge effect on how compressed things sound, which might help with bootlegs/demos as mp3s.

 

[Friesiansam]

I think my Elegia headphones are capable of more performance than I am getting from the DragonFly Black

They are capable of a great deal more, than you'll get with a Dragonfly Black and MP3s. Elegias seem rather wasted...

 

[bigrobmac]

I agree here - maybe something to tweak the eq that might be more effective than a different dac? In my experience, small changes in the mids can have a huge effect on how compressed things sound, which might help with bootlegs/demos as mp3s.

What sort of thing? Do you mean software?

 

[bigrobmac]

They are capable of a great deal more, than you'll get with a Dragonfly Black and MP3s. Elegias seem rather wasted...

I'm sure they are... but this is what confuses me. Before I bought them, I just had a cheap pair of AKG Y50s, and I had never been able to tell the difference between an MP3 and a lossless file. I assumed that was because the hardware wasn't good enough, and thought the headphones would make the biggest difference. I saved up and bought the Elegias. After bedding them in, I did a back-to-back test: the same song in MP3, FLAC and MQA... and I still couldn't tell the difference. There's nothing wrong with my hearing as far as I know; I score well on hearing tests. I tried the AKGs again, and whilst the Elegias are a bit better, it is not by much.

I concluded three things from all this. One, the AKG Y50s are truly fantastic headphones. Two, file compression is really not something that bothers me. I'm sure other people can tell the difference straight away, but for whatever reason, I can't, and I am fine with that. Three, the weak link has to be the DAC. I always knew there were better ones out there, so I figure that all I can do is get one which is commensurate with the quality of the headphones. I would be delighted if I then repeated the MP3 test and heard a difference, as that would tell me that I've found the upper limit of the quality level that I am looking to attain.

From what I've read, I think a wider soundstage and better instrument separation should be possible with a better DAC, and that would provide the biggest upgrade. This is what is pointing me towards the iFi Uno, which is within my budget. The Zen V2 has recently been available for about £130, which is more than I'd like to spend, but if the difference is significant then I would consider it. It's hard to tell from reviews, which is why I would like some advice.

Thanks!

 

[abacus]

If you're only using mp3 then stick with what you have got, as anything better will just make them sound even worse.

Bill

 

[bigrobmac]

If you're only using mp3 then stick with what you have got, as anything better will just make them sound even worse.

Bill

Thanks Bill - but they sound just as good as FLACs, WAVs or MQAs to me. Hence the first sentence of the original post.

 

[Vincent Kars]

I did a back-to-back test: the same song in MP3, FLAC and MQA... and I still couldn't tell the difference.

That is very common. High bit rate MP3 is very hard to tell apart from the lossless original.

Elegias are a bit better, it is not by much

There the problem starts. Is the DAC a limitation or the Elegia?
Can't tell you.
If you can buy it with a money back guarantee, try something like this: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...msl-raw-mda-1-dac-headphone-amp-review.56430/
Distortion is extremely low, don't think iFi can top this. Power sufficient to drive any headphone.
If the improvement is disappointing, audition a better headphone e.g. Sennheiser HD800s

 

[Revolutions]

Thanks Bill - but they sound just as good as FLACs, WAVs or MQAs to me. Hence the first sentence of the original post.

I think what Bill means is that the quality of Elegia are already showing up the problems with your demos that you couldn’t hear with cheaper headphones.

Better equipment only = better sound if the source has it to offer. All that higher quality is likely to do is make things sound even worse as you’re dealing with a song recorded using a cassette player at a gig.

Poorly recorded track = limited quality, regardless of how well compressed the mp3 is

Better headphones = expose the limited quality

A great dac can’t magically improve the track if there’s nothing more to pull from the sound. That’s why I mentioned looking at eq.

Had a quick Look & Dook make a little eq for £55

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Douk-Audio-Equalizer-Portable-Processor/dp/B0B5X8XT4Y

 

[bigrobmac]

That is very common. High bit rate MP3 is very hard to tell apart from the lossless original.

There the problem starts. Is the DAC a limitation or the Elegia?
Can't tell you.
If you can buy it with a money back guarantee, try something like this: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...msl-raw-mda-1-dac-headphone-amp-review.56430/
Distortion is extremely low, don't think iFi can top this. Power sufficient to drive any headphone.
If the improvement is disappointing, audition a better headphone e.g. Sennheiser HD800s

Re the first part: I'm glad to hear this. Sometimes I feel like I must be the only one who can't tell the difference!

That DAC looks fantastic, but unfortunately is out of my price range, which is a shame.

 

[bigrobmac]

I think what Bill means is that the quality of Elegia are already showing up the problems with your demos that you couldn’t hear with cheaper headphones.

Better equipment only = better sound if the source has it to offer. All that higher quality is likely to do is make things sound even worse as you’re dealing with a song recorded using a cassette player at a gig. A great dac can’t magically improve the track if there’s nothing more to pull from the sound. That’s why I mentioned looking at eq.

Although, apologies I don’t know much about headphone DACs & software. In guitar land I’d just buy a pedal.

Had a quick Look & Dook make a little eq for £55

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Douk-Audio-Equalizer-Portable-Processor/dp/B0B5X8XT4Y

I understand this. There's only so much you can do with the source audio. But I don't listen exclusively to bootlegs and the test was with a studio track. I'm not sure you could even get an MQA of a bootleg! It's also part of the reason for me sticking with MP3s. If the source audio is a cassette recording from a gig, quite frankly there's no point in having it lossless, because it's not going to sound any better.

I can still improve what I have though. I've got mid-range headphones and a cheap DAC, so I'm pretty convinced that a better DAC will give me a better listening experience.

 

[DougK1]

As an example I have the following kit: Ruby DAC, Korg DAC, HD650, HD800S. I have some high bit rate MP3 files but the majority are FLAC. The difference between the files isn't huge and needs very careful listening to detect the difference. The difference in the DACs is subtle at best, more like a flavour. The difference between the headphones is smaller than you would expect, actually the HD650's are more fun than the HD800S's.

The only time everything works with better kit is if you are fortunate enough to have an excellent recording...and these can be very rare indeed.

Make of this what you will

 

[Friesiansam]

The difference between the headphones is smaller than you would expect, actually the HD650's are more fun than the HD800S's.

Perhaps like me with the Beyerdynamic T5Ps, you find the HD800s too clinical.

 

[daveh75]

I feel it probably needs to be pointed out, yet again, that most people can't discern a difference in quality between lossy and lossless formats under blind /ABX conditions....

I'd wager that those who believe they can hear differences between DACs wouldn't under blind/ABX conditions either.

 

[Friesiansam]

I feel it probably needs to be pointed out, again, that most can't discern a difference in quality between lossy and lossless formats under blind /ABX conditions....

I'd wager that most of those who believe than can here differences between DACs wouldn't under blind/ABX conditions either.

I'm not going to comment on whether or not that is correct but, I suspect it would not be difficult for someone to design such a test, so as to make it more difficult to discern a difference. Also, I'm sure most people don't care and, why should they? What people choose to listen to and how, should be about what makes them happy, not about somebody else's opinion of what is right.

 

[daveh75]

I'm not going to comment on whether or not that is correct but, I suspect it would not be difficult for someone to design such a test, so as to make it more difficult to discern a difference.

What that most people can't discern a difference between lossy and lossless formats?

Plenty of studies to back that up and easy to test for yourself.

Not difficult to test difference between h/w either. You just need to make sure they're level matched and someone to do the switching for you.

Also, I'm sure most people don't care and, why should they? What people choose to listen to and how, should be about what makes them happy, not about somebody else's opinion of what is right.

I'm not the one telling the op their headphones are basically wasted on MP3s. But whatever.

 

[abacus]

Most people can tell the difference between lossy & lossless in blind tests, however most of them also prefer the lossy sound to the lossless sound. (Probably because that's what they have always been used too)
I Rember a few years ago on a C5 Tech program, they had real players plus a lossless and an mp3 recording of them, and during the blind test it was 50-50 between the live sound and the lossless file, but everybody picked out the mp3 as sounding the best. (Yes, it sounded much better than the live play to them)

Bill

 

[DougK1]

Perhaps like me with the Beyerdynamic T5Ps, you find the HD800s too clinical.

They are marvellous for well recorded music and films, but for that extra bit of bass the 650's are more fun, even if they lack that smidgen of extra clarity and space.

 

[Fandango Andy]

I am looking for advice from people who listen extensively to bootleg recordings and music in lossy formats.

I have a library of MP3 files, which I have spent years collecting and curating exactly as I want them to be. These are in MP3 format and I have no interest in either changing them to another format or using a streaming subscription service. However, I want them to sound as good as possible.

My current setup is laptop > DragonFly Black DAC > Focal Elegia. The headphones are easy to drive and I am happy with them, but I am considering changing the DAC for an iFi Uno or Zen DAC V2. I do not have a big budget.

How does the Uno compare with the DragonFly Black (or Red, for that matter)? Is it worth paying more for the Zen V2, or would that only really be worth it if I used high-res files?

Many thanks in advance.

I don't know the products mentioned well enough to be sure, but would hazard a guess it won't make much difference. The music format is the weak link not the DAC.

Having said that there is no substitute for an audition. Do you have an option to borrow a DAC, or buy online from somewhere that accepts returns.

 

[Gray]

Most people can tell the difference between lossy & lossless in blind tests, however most of them also prefer the lossy sound to the lossless sound. (Probably because that's what they have always been used too)
I Rember a few years ago on a C5 Tech program, they had real players plus a lossless and an mp3 recording of them, and during the blind test it was 50-50 between the live sound and the lossless file, but everybody picked out the mp3 as sounding the best. (Yes, it sounded much better than the live play to them)

Bill

I seem to remember that test being on The Gadget Show - interesting outcome.

I listen to a few 320kbbps streams - where one particular track sounded great.
So I tried my FLAC version of the same track - not as good - and, importantly, it wouldn't have been a different recording - and only a very remote chance that it was a remaster.
Still, opposite to what I might've predicted.

I think the OP on this thread understands that his bootleg recordings are the source of any compromise, rather than the playback bitrate.

 

[Friesiansam]

What that most people can't discern a difference between lossy and lossless formats?

Plenty of studies to back that up and easy to test for yourself.

Not difficult to test difference between h/w either. You just need to make sure they're level matched and someone to do the switching for you.

You’re misunderstanding my point, that most people don’t care about such tests.

I'm not the one telling the op their headphones are basically wasted on MP3s. But whatever.

Not just mp3s, the Dragonfly wil not get the best out of Focal Elegias. Mine sound flat and lifeless with my Chord Mojo, compared to how they are with the Pathos amp.