Beresford DAC versus Cambridge Audio Dacmagic anyone ?

[Anonymous]

pete321:

Both are extremely good DAC's for the money, I went with the DacMagic purely because I needed it to stand-up vertically. If that wasn't an issue, I'd go with the cheaper Beresford. Both can be turned into £1K+ equivalent DAC's for relatively little extra outlay with some modding when future budget allows.

I'm finding that my modded DacMagic outperforms the stereo digital/analogue conversion in my Arcam AVR600.

Pete - where can I find out about modding my Dacmagic ?

 

[Anonymous]

Hawkmoon:pete321:

Both are extremely good DAC's for the money, I went with the DacMagic purely because I needed it to stand-up vertically. If that wasn't an issue, I'd go with the cheaper Beresford. Both can be turned into £1K+ equivalent DAC's for relatively little extra outlay with some modding when future budget allows.

I'm finding that my modded DacMagic outperforms the stereo digital/analogue conversion in my Arcam AVR600.

Pete - where can I find out about modding my Dacmagic ?

Here's one company: http://www.audioupgrades.co.uk/

Not sure if it's the one Pete used though?

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:It amazes me that this always seems to be a two horse race when the Musical Fidelity V-DAC is so superb and such excellent value for money.

I have both the V Dac and Dacmagic and have tried swapping them round a couple of times....dont know why but I go back to the Dacmagic. I have swapped a lot of kit recently and have just added a preamp so another swap may be in order just to see what happens. Going by past experience though...................................................

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:It amazes me that this always seems to be a two horse race when the Musical Fidelity V-DAC is so superb and such excellent value for money.

It looks a little limited on the input side (1x optical, 1x coax, 1x USB?), and the input switch is hidden away at the back?

 

[Alec]

storsvante:

matthewpiano:It amazes me that this always seems to be a two horse race when the Musical Fidelity V-DAC is so superb and such excellent value for money.

It looks a little limited on the input side (1x optical, 1x coax, 1x USB?), and the input switch is hidden away at the back?

And theres the garish white branding; its not a tracksuit, im not a turntablist or graffiti artist.

Well, i could be Banksy.

Perhaps.

 

[Anonymous]

I was on the fence too, and very nearly ordered the Beresford Caiman the other day until I got spooked by some of the discussions on HiFi ** and particularly Head-Fi. So I decided to take the 'safe' option and go mainstream with the larger reputable brand and just bid home an 'almost new' DacMagic on eBay.

 

[chebby]

storsvante:
I was on the fence too, and very nearly ordered the Beresford Caiman the other day until I got spooked by some of the discussions on HiFi ** and particularly Head-Fi. So I decided to take the 'safe' option and go mainstream with the larger reputable brand and just bid home an 'almost new' DacMagic on eBay.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is less 'reputable' about Beresford? Their products have achieved 5 star reviews and won awards and done well in group tests.

(Let's leave out the bit about feeling safer with 'larger' brands otherwise - by the same logic - we would all be buying nothing but Sony.)

 

[Alec]

chebby:storsvante:

I was on the fence too, and very nearly ordered the Beresford Caiman the other day until I got spooked by some of the discussions on HiFi ** and particularly Head-Fi. So I decided to take the 'safe' option and go mainstream with the larger reputable brand and just bid home an 'almost new' DacMagic on eBay.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is less 'reputable' about Beresford? Their products have achieved 5 star reviews and won awards and done well in group tests.

(Let's leave out the bit about feeling safer with 'larger' brands otherwise - by the same logic - we would all be buying nothing but Sony.)

Seconded, but it seems the choice is made.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

al7478:chebby:storsvante:

I was on the fence too, and very nearly ordered the Beresford Caiman the other day until I got spooked by some of the discussions on HiFi ** and particularly Head-Fi. So I decided to take the 'safe' option and go mainstream with the larger reputable brand and just bid home an 'almost new' DacMagic on eBay.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is less 'reputable' about Beresford? Their products have achieved 5 star reviews and won awards and done well in group tests.

(Let's leave out the bit about feeling safer with 'larger' brands otherwise - by the same logic - we would all be buying nothing but Sony.)

Seconded, but it seems the choice is made.

Surely he's allowed his opinion? I understand where he's coming from. The last big thing on this forum - that sucked many in (including myself) and basically received a reputation from the forum was, the Gotham interconnects!!! Now, I'm not saying that the Beresford DAC is anything but very good but for the sake of £50 or so, why would you go for a Beresford over the DacMagic? I mean, I know Chebby will be hunting down my address after reading this but the Cambridge DAC, looks and I'd imagine, feels like a better bit of kit. I would imagine the sell on value would be better than Stanley's - he has brought out two new versions of the 7510 DACs since the DacMagic came out. The DM has XLR possibilities, so if you have an amp to take advantage, great, if not, the future might make it a possibility and the DM is deemed better by most reviewers. Obviously, for some the Beresford DACs are must have items and as the 7510 was close to the DM (miles better in Chebby's ears/eyes) and the 7520, "much improved" and the Caiman "on another planet", this must mean the Caiman is Chord 64 territory!!

 

[Anonymous]

chebby:
Please excuse my ignorance, but what is less 'reputable' about Beresford? Their products have achieved 5 star reviews and won awards and done well in group tests.

Fair point, but I never managed to find many reviews of 7520 let alone Caiman (fair enough, that one is almost brand new) outside of Internet forums... and regarding that, see my previous post. The 7510 has been extensively reviewed but *seems* to lose to the DacMagic in most review comparisons what I've seen. Perhaps I'll change my mind with WHF's upcoming Beresford Caiman review though ;-).

 

[chebby]

Gerrardasnails:Obviously, for some the Beresford DACs are must have items and as the 7510 was close to the DM (miles better in Chebby's ears/eyes)

Quite wrong. I only have the reviews of the TC7510 and other forum member's opinions of it to go on.

My comparison was always between my TC-7520 and the DacMagic based on what I have heard and still hear for many hours every fortnight or so. (And if a Dacmagic cannot impress me when XLR connected to a Primare i30, and optically connected to a Mac, playing lossless files through Focal JM Chorus floorstanders then I don't know where else it can.)

It is a matter of taste. I prefer the more stripped down and pacey sound of the TC-7520 rather than the lusher, bassier, warmer sound of the DacMagic.

I prefer not to heed 2nd or 3rd hand internet forum reports of the reputability or otherwise of this company or that unless there is evidence of some wrong-doing (and that has not happened yet that I recall) and I certainly don't wait for the 5 star reviews to appear to influence my decisions.

My speakers have never been reviewed anywhere that I can find, and my DAC was only reviewed long after purchase and was not even a group winner despite a pretty positive account of sound quality. (4 'globes' - the same result as the DacMagic up against an MF V-DAC and others.) I am probably using some of the least fashionable cables going and yet still buy more of them when needed and I have a tuner that cost £10 and would need an archeologist to find the original reviews!

 

[Anonymous]

chebby:storsvante:
I was on the fence too, and very nearly ordered the Beresford Caiman the other day until I got spooked by some of the discussions on HiFi ** and particularly Head-Fi. So I decided to take the 'safe' option and go mainstream with the larger reputable brand and just bid home an 'almost new' DacMagic on eBay.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is less 'reputable' about Beresford? Their products have achieved 5 star reviews and won awards and done well in group tests.

I may be wrong, and storsvante may be refering to something else, but Stan has a bad reputation on Head Fi. He registered under multiple usernames, without making people aware that he was building/selling the Beresford, and basically bashed all other DACs after saying he'd supposidly tested them and instead pushed his own product. He then used other profiles to create fake testimonials and positive discussion regarding his DAC. Not great business practise I'm sure you'll all agree. He's since been banned.

 

[chebby]

There is another manufacturer who did almost precisely the same thing here for a while, but all those forum members who have bought (and still buy) his product have nothing but praise for it and have all agreed his service was excellent.
Even before the internet came along there were many stories about the more 'colourful' characters in the hifi industry and their antics, but it never seemed to affect the performance or the integrity of their products or the quality of their service.

None of what occurs, or is said, or gossiped about, on other forums has made my DAC sound any the worse for it.

 

[Alec]

Nice post if i may be so bold.

I just want to take the opportunity, tho, to mention that just because someone buys a product doesnt mean someone has bought into the whole controversial cult of the company behind it.

I'm not accusing you of having said that Chebby, but i thought now was a reasonable time and place to mention it.

 

[Anonymous]

I did give the Beresford Caiman serious consideration - I even had a bit of e-mail correspondence about it with Stanley Beresford. In the end the Dacmagic was a 'safe' choice - mostly good reviews, can return it to a brick and mortar store near where I live if I don't like it or if it goes wrong, etc. To my ears it sounds great, so I'm a happy customer. I'm sure there are many Beresford fans out there and maybe the Caiman is better than the Dacmagic, but I never had a chance to compare them. Mr Beresford wasn't that willing to engage in much discussion with me about the technical differences between the Caiman and Dacmagic and his attitude was pretty take it or leave it - I was not lucky enough to be offered a free loan of a Beresford unit (apparently some lucky people are offered this) and I did get frustrated at the fact that the Caiman isn't even mentioned on the Beresford website - you need some special web address that only he gives out via a forum. He was nice enough to e-mail me a PDF about it though. But there does seem to be some weirdness going on across some hi-fi forums where Beresford fans and sceptics go head to head and throw mud at each other. Difficult to judge what's reality and what's fantasy...

 

[chebby]

The situation with the Caiman was a bit 'fluid' lately.

He made a limited edition number of Caimans for people who were interested in having all the best of the various TC-7520 modifications done in one 'hit', but who were not prepared (or able) to fit them themselves.

The demand was (unexpectedly) so high that the limited edition Caiman flew out of the doors and as a result he will be continuing to produce the model..

All the necessary parts are ordered and Caiman production expected to re-commence at the end of this month. This is from Stanley Beresford's own updates yesterday (and today) not conjecture. (I cannot link to the actual thread due to house rules.)

We only have to think back to late last year to remember the initial demand for the DacMagic exhausting their supply and the 'scrabble' that went on just before Christmas with people rushing 'hither and thither' trying to find a Richer Sounds that actually had one in stock.

Just shows that such production/supply/demand glitches for a new product can happen to small and large manufacturers alike.

 

[Anonymous]

It's all true what you are saying, Chebby and al7478. I'll try an explain myself and my reasoning a little better.

DACs are still relatively niche products. Brand-wise, Beresford more so than CA DacMagic. Certainly there isn't a HiFi shop in London where I can walk in and do listening comparisons between these two.

I also don't personally know anyone who owes either product. So that means either buy several and return/resell the lesser favorites -- however I couldn't find a returns policy on the Beresford web site and my Richer Sounds shops wasn't particularly keen on the idea either -- so I chose to take a punt.

DacMagic has plenty of published reviews, however the recent Beresfords I can only find discussed in various Internet forums and chat rooms. And it gets a little weird. On The Art of Sound, posters are generally exstatic about any B'ford DAC. On Head-Fi, as Suasexed correcly points out, B'ford themselves were (accused of) posting under multiple names, giving themselves glorious reviews and bashing other brands. The evidence which was put forward by the site moderators was convincing and it was discussed at length afterwards. Similar discussions elsewhere. I'm not sure what to make of all that and particularly what it means to the praise on AoS so I bottled it and went for the major brand with plenty of published reviews. Simple as that.

Chebby, my post was not intended to bash your DAC or your choice or your brand loyailty or anything else. You seem happy with yours and that's great.

 

[chebby]

I don't 'do' brand loyalty.

I bought the TC-7520 because I needed a reasonably priced, good DAC with USB and optical connections. (My previous DAC had been USB only.)

I had a lot of experience - by then - of the sound of the DacMagic from many, many hours listening to it in a friend's system (over a period of a few months) and knew it was not for me. I thought about the MF V-Dac but did not like the look of it with connections sprouting out of both ends and the circuit schematics printed on it etc.

The only option at a reasonable price was to try the then new TC-7520 (as yet unreviewed) which was not even officially on sale or on the website.

I telephoned Beresford and ordered it. Stanley was most polite and service and delivery very speedy. (Arrived next the morning). There was never any doubt that the item could be returned for a full refund.

I have been pleased with it since and even more happy after the addition of LM4562NA mods.

I am not going to comment on hearsay about squabbles/fights on forums I don't belong to or have no interest in. Some of the leading figures in British hi-fi were notorious for hurling brick-bats (and occasionally worse) at each other back in the 1980s and in (most) cases these same figures and the companies they started are still extant and making fine products.

I am not a Beresford 'fan-boy' and would drop the TC-7520 like a hot brick if something significantly better came along or my needs (or DAC budget) significantly changed.

My only 'allegiance' (if you can call it that) is to buy British designed & manufactured hifi wherever practical & possible - and Beresford don't even completely fulfill that - so I am NOT some sort of Beresford 'camp follower' or wedded to their products or 'ethos'.

Just happened to be the right product with the right sound and price and connections when I needed it. The DacMagic wasn't. (Despite glowing pre-launch reviews, fan-boys, hype, 'DacMagic fever', and all the rest of the circus that came to town late last year.)

 

[Alec]

That all sounds reasonable to me storsvante. To be fair, when i got my beresford (no longer in use), the current dacmagic wasnt an option - it wasnt on the scene yet. I've also not heard one, i must admit (tho i have no need to at present). I cant guarantee i wouldnt get one if i were in the market for a DAC either - id certainly listen to one.

However, Chebbys post* - which also makes great sense - hints at a certain irritation at the hoopla around the cambridge, and i share this irritation. Especially as it will have got people buying DACs who would previously said "no, i cant afford more than the beresford, but im not buying from some anonymous cottage industry".

* Please forgive me if i have you wrong.

 

[chebby]

al7478:However, Chebbys post* - which also makes great sense - hints at a certain irritation at the hoopla around the cambridge, and i share this irritation.

And a certain amount of irritation with myself for getting a little bit carried along by it all too. (At the time.)

DACs were a new thing to me and the 'tidal wave' of DacMagic mania even convinced me to expect great and wonderful things compared to the Firestone Audio Fubar II USB DAC I had then. (A rather nice OPA2107AP modd'ed one with 'Supplier' dedicated power supply.)

So in light of this 'sure thing', I recommended the CA DacMagic to a friend and showed him where on WHF (and in hifi mags) to read all about it. Then he in turn got excited about the DM and bought one a short time later from Richer Sounds (a 30 mile motorcycle ride on a Sunday morning to the nearest branch after phoning to find out they had just got one in.)

I helped him set it all up (doing all the Benchmark recommended Quicktime/iTunes/Lossless/Mac settings) and then there was another 10 mile motorcycle ride to somewhere else to get a 3.5mm optical toslink/mini-jack adaptor.

At this point, if Richer Sounds had rung up to say there was another unit in stock, I would have dashed off to get one myself, despite not having heard it yet! Who needed to? (It was going to be soooo good because everyone said so.)

The rest was history. 2 hours of lossless vs Rega Apollo and 2 hours of Radio Paradise later my mate was over the moon (he subsequently sold the Rega Apollo) I was left with the feeling you get in your head at 3 in the morning after too many drinks and a big curry!

Ok that can be brought on by 'demo fatigue' so not necessarily the fault of the CA Dacmagic, besides he loved it. Next time I visited a week later, he had also installed Chord Cobra XLR leads to connect it in fully 'balanced' mode with his Primare i30, but the sound was not improved at all (to me) in fact - after the whole week running in - I thought it sounded even more bass heavy and rich and warm (traits I dislike in hifi) bordering on 'gooey'.

The position I was in was that of someone who had recommended a DAC to someone who loved it (so much that he sold a great CD player) but hated it myself. I could hardly 'troubleshoot' something that was not a problem for the person who owned the system! Far from it. He loved the massive bass and had been seeking such a sound all along. As far as he was concerned the DacMagic had saved him from needing to spend a small fortune on even bigger speakers to get huge rich bass. He blamed the previous 'lean-ness' on the Apollo and flogged it.

He continues to love the DacMagic and I continue to miss the Apollo whenever I visit and often kick myself for not bringing paracetamol when he cranks the volume up.

You can understand - I hope - why I chose to try out the TC-7520 to replace my USB only DAC (when I needed optical as well)

Despite not having not heard it first, at least I knew there was a good chance it would not sound like a DacMagic.

 

[Craig M.]

Gerrardasnails:
Surely he's allowed his opinion? I understand where he's coming from.
The last big thing on this forum - that sucked many in (including
myself) and basically received a reputation from the forum was, the
Gotham interconnects!!! Now, I'm not saying that the Beresford DAC is
anything but very good but for the sake of £50 or so, why would you go
for a Beresford over the DacMagic? I mean, I know Chebby will be
hunting down my address after reading this but the Cambridge DAC, looks
and I'd imagine, feels like a better bit of kit. I would imagine the
sell on value would be better than Stanley's - he has brought out two
new versions of the 7510 DACs since the DacMagic came out. The DM has
XLR possibilities, so if you have an amp to take advantage, great, if
not, the future might make it a possibility and the DM is deemed better
by most reviewers. Obviously, for some the Beresford DACs are must have
items and as the 7510 was close to the DM (miles better in Chebby's
ears/eyes) and the 7520, "much improved" and the Caiman "on another
planet", this must mean the Caiman is Chord 64 territory!!

don't
know why you think anyone has been "sucked in" by praise for the
beresford(s), or why you think it has something in common with gotham
interconnects. it isn't just on forums that beresford dacs garner
praise. as to why someone would elect to save 50 notes by buying one
over the dm, maybe it's because they think it sounds better, did you
consider that? and can be used as a pre amp and includes a pretty
decent headphone amp. the dm does look better (imo) then the beresford
but doesn't really feel any better made. i only lost 25 pound when
selling on my old 7510. yes, the dm has xlr, but this will be
completely irrelevant to most potential dm buyers. and as to each
successive beresford sounding better, meaning that, as you say a caiman
is in chord territory, well some think the dm sounds as good as a 1000
pound cdp, which having heard a few i would very much disagree with. i
also think you shouldn't try to pour scorn on a product if you haven't
heard it.

 

[Anonymous]

chebby:
I had a lot of experience - by then - of the sound of the DacMagic from many, many hours listening to it in a friend's system (over a period of a few months) and knew it was not for me. I thought about the MF V-Dac but did not like the look of it with connections sprouting out of both ends and the circuit schematics printed on it etc.

The only option at a reasonable price was to try the then new TC-7520 (as yet unreviewed) which was not even officially on sale or on the website.

I telephoned Beresford and ordered it. Stanley was most polite and service and delivery very speedy. (Arrived next the morning). There was never any doubt that the item could be returned for a full refund.

So that's where you came from, and why you did what you did, and you ended up with something you're happy with. That's great. Other people's mileage may vary and I hope you can see it from other points of view too.

chebby:

My only 'allegiance' (if you can call it that) is to buy British designed & manufactured hifi wherever practical & possible - and Beresford don't even completely fulfill that - so I am NOT some sort of Beresford 'camp follower' or wedded to their products or 'ethos'.

Just happened to be the right product with the right sound and price and connections when I needed it. The DacMagic wasn't. (Despite glowing pre-launch reviews, fan-boys, hype, 'DacMagic fever', and all the rest of the circus that came to town late last year.)

That's great. You found what was right for you. Nobody is trying to force you to buy a DacMagic, don't worry. ;-)

 

[cassper]

I already posted in the Computer forum but now I found this thread. I am deciding between Dacmagic or Caiman. I live
in Slovakia and the price of them is not the same. Caiman can be mine
for 280Euro directly from HomeHifi, Dacmagic is sold over here for
350Euro. The rest of my system is Cambridge Audio 650A and B&W685
with Chord Carnival Silverscreen. As a source I will use flac from WD TV
Live, optical out. The question is whether it is worth paying 70Euro
more for Dacmagic (balanced outs that have no use for me at the moment -
but no headphone amp wich can be quite handy). Also soundwise - my
system is very slightly on a bright side, forward, I wouldn't mind
calming it a tiny bit down. Any help is appreciated.

 

[John Duncan]

How much are Firestone products (like the Fubar and Spitfire) where you are? I have a Fubar IV which is very good and has the headphone output you want, and I think the Spitfire outgunned the Beresgord and DACMagic in a group test recently. The DACMagic is a wonderful thing, but I know it's very expensive in Europe...

 

[Alec]

Think I got my Beresford before the Cambridge was available. I'm sure they are both good depending on your tastes, as the mag said.

With respect though, unless you have tried them, you * people shouldn't really be saying more than that.

* EDITED.