Be careful what you wish for

[Electro]

Electro, looks like you might have been a victim of spam filter...

No it was human error on my part. *smile*

 

[insider9]

You can and much more of both *smile*

Whereabouts do you live ?

I'm in Sheffield. Just off junction 31 of M1.

That's a shame I am in Essex not far from junction 30 of the M25.

It might be a bit too far to come for a visit so I can demonstrate the difference between Primare and Electrocompaniet.

I don't think a change of source will cure your problem, my Primare Cd 302 was one of the best sounding Cd players I have ever heard but it could not make up for the lack of speed and transient detail from the A301.

If you are ever down this way you are welcome to visit, I also have a spare Electrocompaniet AW 120 power amp we could play with maybe using a pre out or tape connection from the A301 .

Thanks very much for the offer! Very kind of you! It is quite a distance though. I'll see how the search goes and will have to figure out a way to fix this

If I'm stuck and don't know what to do in a month or so and your offer still stands then I'm sure I can be very flexible to drive up to yours whenever you can find the time.

 

[Electro]

You can and much more of both *smile*

Whereabouts do you live ?

I'm in Sheffield. Just off junction 31 of M1.

That's a shame I am in Essex not far from junction 30 of the M25.

It might be a bit too far to come for a visit so I can demonstrate the difference between Primare and Electrocompaniet.

I don't think a change of source will cure your problem, my Primare Cd 302 was one of the best sounding Cd players I have ever heard but it could not make up for the lack of speed and transient detail from the A301.

If you are ever down this way you are welcome to visit, I also have a spare Electrocompaniet AW 120 power amp we could play with maybe using a pre out or tape connection from the A301 .

Thanks very much for the offer! Very kind of you! It is quite a distance though. I'll see how the search goes and will have to figure out a way to fix this

If I'm stuck and don't know what to do in a month or so and your offer still stands then I'm sure I can be very flexible to drive up to yours whenever you can find the time.

No problem just give me a shout if you need to and we can sort out a date .*smile*

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

"I'm totally at a loss here."

Congratulation. You've discovered psycho-accustic bias, and, in the same time, discovered that there is no major difference between amplifiers in term of sound quality.

The two amplifiers are probably absolutely identical in their ability to render music. Only thing that changes is the ability to give back power and the incidence of the used speaker unit. In your case, smaller amp do it as great as the big one. A B&W 802 user will probably have an other kind of experience.

 

[insider9]

"I'm totally at a loss here."

Congratulation. You've discovered psycho-accustic bias, and, in the same time, discovered that there is no major difference between amplifiers in term of sound quality.

The two amplifiers are probably absolutely identical in their ability to render music. Only thing that changes is the ability to give back power and the incidence of the used speaker unit. In your case, smaller amp do it as great as the big one. A B&W 802 user will probably have an other kind of experience.

No, not at all. There are discernable differences and I'm sure most enthusiasts wouldn't have a problem in a blind test or otherwise. If you read my OP and some of my comments you'll see that I can quite clearly tell the differences between the two. It has nothing to do with the bias. It's to do with individual aspects of each amp and where a comparison highlights individual strengths and flaws.

I don't think it's unreasonable to want the best of both. Do you?

 

[ellisdj]

What are Vincent Hybrid amps like - they look well made internals with simplistic externals compared to Pathos (for those who sit in the dark) for much cheaper?

 

[Electro]

"I'm totally at a loss here."

Congratulation. You've discovered psycho-accustic bias, and, in the same time, discovered that there is no major difference between amplifiers in term of sound quality.

The two amplifiers are probably absolutely identical in their ability to render music. Only thing that changes is the ability to give back power and the incidence of the used speaker unit. In your case, smaller amp do it as great as the big one. A B&W 802 user will probably have an other kind of experience.

It is true that in many cases where a difference between amplifiers is heard it is because of the amplifier /speaker interaction.

A perfect amplfier should not be affected at all by what it is driving, but unfortunately most amplifiers are not perfect and will only drive speakers that are very easy to drive without some clipping or transient distortion even at low to meduim spl's .

An amplifier like models from Electrocompaniet will drive ANY speaker regardless of efficiency or load and will not be controlled or distorted by awkward speaker loads in any way at all, the difference is plain and obvious to anyone, blind tested or not .*smile*

 

[Andrewjvt]

"I'm totally at a loss here."

Congratulation. You've discovered psycho-accustic bias, and, in the same time, discovered that there is no major difference between amplifiers in term of sound quality.

The two amplifiers are probably absolutely identical in their ability to render music. Only thing that changes is the ability to give back power and the incidence of the used speaker unit. In your case, smaller amp do it as great as the big one. A B&W 802 user will probably have an other kind of experience.

It is true that in many cases where a difference between amplifiers is heard it is because of the amplifier /speaker interaction.

A perfect amplfier should not be affected at all by what it is driving,  but unfortunately most amplifiers are not perfect and will only drive speakers that are very easy to drive without some clipping or transient distortion even at low to meduim spl's .

An amplifier like models from Electrocompaniet will drive ANY speaker regardless of efficiency or load and will not be controlled or distorted by awkward speaker loads in any way at all, the difference is plain and obvious to anyone, blind tested or not .*smile*

 

 

I totally agree with what you have just said.

But id like to add that ive been very very supprised recently by cheap amps.

Also in the past before when i was younger and not very technical, ive been confused at the lack of difference in sound changing from cheap amp to high spec expensive amp.

But i still agree and am not trying to dis-prive what you say in anyway.

Hope that makes sense

 

[Vladimir]

The I22 may be Class D with a switching power supply, but that PSU is larger than all budget PA amps on the market that I can think of. Don't let the 16W fool you. The inrush current on start up is probably ridiculous.

 

[insider9]

The I22 may be Class D with a switching power supply, but that PSU is larger than all budget PA amps on the market that I can think of. Don't let the 16W fool you. The inrush current on start up is probably ridiculous.

I quite like the low power consumption. As long as I could tame some of the brightness and add more fullness and timre to the sound I think overally it would be a better bet. Definitely more versatile. The bigger issue here for me is that I don't quite connect as much with music as I do with A30.1. Would it change with a better source? Perhaps...

Yesterday, I switched back to A30.1 after a while of listening to I22. Listened to Joni Mitchell "Blue" (album). With I22 the detail was lovely, "Carey" was more lively. Then I re listened to the whole album on A30.1 and it wasn't long until my eyes fogged up. When it got to "Blue" (song) I was seriously moved. Then I listened to a little bit of Whitney Houston got goose bumps all over.

I ended up switching to headphones and listened to Led Zeppelin "Physicla Graffiti" (album). I just wanted to listen to music not thinking what aspects sound good and what aspects don't.

 

[Vladimir]

Seems like the differences are not that significant. I personally would stick with the A30.1. The upgraditis will eventually wear off. *yes3*

 

[CnoEvil]

The upgraditis will eventually wear off. *yes3*

...but A30.1 -> I22 would be "downgraditis". *scratch_one-s_head* *biggrin*

 

[insider9]

There was no upgraditis to begin with. I was really happy with my system. It was only a good enough deal and me having some spare cash and perhaps some curiosity. Now there is regret more than anything that I did. You know, ignorance is bliss

Oh well, live and learn I guess.

 

[insider9]

The upgraditis will eventually wear off. *yes3*

...but A30.1 -> I22 would be "downgraditis". *scratch_one-s_head* *biggrin*

In ways that matter to me more, yes.

 

[drummerman]

One of the (ex) mods here used to be a big kn ... Primare fan.

He got rid of it and to the best of my knowledge used a middling Cambridge Audio amp (6 or 3 series?) and seemed to be very happy with it.

Chuck the whole lot and free yourself.

 

[Vladimir]

Cno - I don't think I would lose sleep over minute difference between two amps and not call it an 'upgradeitis'. *wink*

i9 - If you go for an Electro, you do upgrade in amplification, especially for future power demanding speaker buys. Your current Mark Levinson Rose's seem very docile load (from looking at this review).

 

[insider9]

One of the (ex) mods here used to be a big kn ... Primare fan.

He got rid of it and to the best of my knowledge used a middling Cambridge Audio amp (6 or 3 series?) and seemed to be very happy with it.

Chuck the whole lot and free yourself.

I remember reading a number of post when researching the amp. I might just do that but don't see CA as a possible route.

 

[insider9]

Cno - I don't think I would lose sleep over minute difference between two amps and not call it an 'upgradeitis'. *wink*

i9 - If you go for an Electro, you do upgrade in amplification, especially for future power demanding speaker buys. Your current Mark Levinson Rose's seem very docile load (from looking at this review).

Yes, they are easy to drive quite a feat considering the sound they produce at their compact size. For me to consider speaker replacement I'd have to move house as lounge is not an option and can't really fit anything bigger into my bedroom/listening room.

 

[seemorebtts]

Chuck the whole lot and free yourself.

 
[/quote] noooooooooooooooooooooooow :-(

 

[drummerman]

Chuck the whole lot and free yourself.

 

noooooooooooooooooooooooow :-(
[/quote]



I think anyone dabbling in hifi and hanging round forums has an addictive/obsessive personality.

Sometimes it's good to just take a step back ... .

 

[Al ears]

Chuck the whole lot and free yourself.

noooooooooooooooooooooooow :-(

I think anyone dabbling in hifi and hanging round forums has an addictive/obsessive personality.

Sometimes it's good to just take a step back ... .

[/quote]

Not if you're facing backwards on the brink of a precipice.

 

[drummerman]

Chuck the whole lot and free yourself.

 

noooooooooooooooooooooooow :-(

I think anyone dabbling in hifi and hanging round forums has an addictive/obsessive personality.

Sometimes it's good to just take a step back ... .

Not if you're facing backwards on the brink of a precipice.    
[/quote]



PS. What's going on with formatting on the forum?

 

[DocG]

Chuck the whole lot and free yourself.

noooooooooooooooooooooooow :-(

I think anyone dabbling in hifi and hanging round forums has an addictive/obsessive personality.

Sometimes it's good to just take a step back ... .

Not if you're facing backwards on the brink of a precipice.

PS. What's going on with formatting on the forum?

There was one "quote=drummerman" missing. Fixed it for you! Have a nice weekend!

 

[Vladimir]

I've noticed the flavor of the season are Primares. When are smoking and Cyrus coming back in fashion?

 

[jmjones]

But I'm glad to see you back in fashion Vlad. I'll be expecting to see some reasoned argument and comprehensive technical experience back in the fray. Nice one. *good*