Be careful what you wish for

[insider9]

Looks like exciting times ahead. At least I got my headfi for reference and when and if I don't have an amp.

Currently listening to jazz on A30.1 heaven.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Can a class D amp sound as rich as A or AB? Does it matter at all?

Class A, AB and Class D sound different imo, with AB sounding closer to A (depending on bias). For me, Class D sounds very clean, fast and neutral, if a bit analytical.....but leaves me a bit cold.

As long as you pick what you like, it doesn't matter a jot.

Agreed. The only class D Amp (Okay its a class A/D hybrid) that gets it almost totally right for me is a Devialet. The warmth and musicality of class A married to the muscle and neutrality of class D. I'd love to hear what you think when you get to hear one Cno.

Would love one but won't stretch that far. What about a hybrid like Pathos? I know we're just throwing names around but gotta start somewhere. And quite a few names on a shortlist already.

Pathos is a good bet. Valve front end and SS back end. Not the same technology as Devialet but great results all the same!

 

[Pedro2]

Thanks for pointers. Electrocompaniet does cost quiet a bit, true.

Can a class D amp sound as rich as A or AB? Does it matter at all?

The Nord 500 power amp compares favourably with many ABs. It's possible to change op-amps as well in order to tweak the final sound. I changed one myself in order to gain a more 'organic' sound and it worked. Class D have moved a long way in the last couple of years. Does it matter? Personally, I don't really care what equipment is reproducing the music as long as I like it!

 

[CnoEvil]

Pathos is a good bet. Valve front end and SS back end. Not the same technology as Devialet but great results all the same!

Nothing like getting the OP in a Pincer Movement....there is no escape! *diablo*

 

[Infiniteloop]

Infiniteloop, I remember you saying that. The reasoning seems sound to me.

I must say that there's something about Unison Research that makes me want to have one of their amps. Might be the fact they're Italian.

I've had a couple of Unison Research Valve Amps over the years and they've always sounded beautiful and performed flawlessly. Some of them are also achingly beautiful to my eyes.

I'll only ever give up my S8 when it's finally prised from my cold, dead, fingers.

 

[insider9]

Guys, thanks for your input. Much appreciated. I guess the best way to take this further is to look to move them on to free up some funds and experiment for a while. I know I've got a lot of reading to do. I'm also going to Scalford hifi show so it will be interesting to see if there's something there that I like.

I hope this thread helps someone. If you're happy with your system leave it be!

 

[insider9]

Thanks for pointers. Electrocompaniet does cost quiet a bit, true.

Can a class D amp sound as rich as A or AB? Does it matter at all?

The Nord 500 power amp compares favourably with many ABs. It's possible to change op-amps as well in order to tweak the final sound. I changed one myself in order to gain a more 'organic'  sound and it worked. Class D have moved a long way in the last couple of years. Does it matter? Personally, I don't really care what equipment is reproducing the music as long as I like it!

Yes, I know what you mean. These little things can make a huge difference. Recently changed an op amp in my headphone amp and wow what a difference. Best £3 I spent on hifi ever.

 

[CnoEvil]

The Nord 500 power amp compares favourably with many ABs. It's possible to change op-amps as well in order to tweak the final sound. I changed one myself in order to gain a more 'organic' sound and it worked. Class D have moved a long way in the last couple of years. Does it matter? Personally, I don't really care what equipment is reproducing the music as long as I like it!

....and it's also about system synergy....and you have a very good source. *dance4*

 

[seemorebtts]

I think you know my opinion.the i22 is a great amp and with good pairing can be amazing.i had the same trouble you had it didn't match my Speaker's at the time I bought it which were the Dali opticon 6.but I know that that amp had talent so I sold my Speaker's and went with the dynaudio emit which is a really good combination.i know also that the i22 can lack emotion but the detail can bring you closer to the music and make you hair stand on end.stick with it and it will reward you in the long run

 

[insider9]

I think you know my opinion.the i22 is a great amp and with good pairing can be amazing.i had the same trouble you had it didn't match my Speaker's at the time I bought it which were the Dali opticon 6.but I know that that amp had talent so I sold my Speaker's and went with the dynaudio emit which is a really good combination.i know also that the i22 can lack emotion but the detail can bring you closer to the music and make you hair stand on end.stick with it and it will reward you in the long run

I agree they're both great in their own right. No doubt synergy isn't there with I22 for me. You're lucky to have found speakers that work well with it. I would perhaps get use to it time but looking for something to combine the best of the two.

I'm not prepared to change speakers as they suit my room perfectly. I have decent headfi to take me through any changes.

 

[seemorebtts]

I think you know my opinion.the i22 is a great amp and with good pairing can be amazing.i had the same trouble you had it didn't match my Speaker's at the time I bought it which were the Dali opticon 6.but I know that that amp had talent so I sold my Speaker's and went with the dynaudio emit which is a really good combination.i know also that the i22 can lack emotion but the detail can bring you closer to the music and make you hair stand on end.stick with it and it will reward you in the long run

I agree they're both great in their own right. No doubt synergy isn't there with I22 for me. You're lucky to have found speakers that work well with it. I would perhaps get use to it time but looking for something to combine the best of the two.

I'm not prepared to change speakers as they suit my room perfectly. I have decent headfi to take me through any changes.

I just want someone else to have a primare i22.im lonely :-(

 

[insider9]

I think you know my opinion.the i22 is a great amp and with good pairing can be amazing.i had the same trouble you had it didn't match my Speaker's at the time I bought it which were the Dali opticon 6.but I know that that amp had talent so I sold my Speaker's and went with the dynaudio emit which is a really good combination.i know also that the i22 can lack emotion but the detail can bring you closer to the music and make you hair stand on end.stick with it and it will reward you in the long run

I agree they're both great in their own right. No doubt synergy isn't there with I22 for me. You're lucky to have found speakers that work well with it. I would perhaps get use to it time but looking for something to combine the best of the two.

I'm not prepared to change speakers as they suit my room perfectly. I have decent headfi to take me through any changes.

I just want someone else to have a primare i22.im lonely :-(

I rather enjoy having components that not many people have. There seems to be more interest in A30.1 at present, so I22 will probably stay a bit longer. Who know I might get used to it. Maybe I'll experiment with a tube dac for it to get it to sound sweeter. If I could only get that extra bit of timbre, warmth and fullness it would be perfect.

See the differences are clearly not massive for me to want the best of both. I can't call an overall winner.

 

[drummerman]

I think you know my opinion.the i22 is a great amp and with good pairing can be amazing.i had the same trouble you had it didn't match my Speaker's at the time I bought it which were the Dali opticon 6.but I know that that amp had talent so I sold my Speaker's and went with the dynaudio emit which is a really good combination.i know also that the i22 can lack emotion but the detail can bring you closer to the music and make you hair stand on end.stick with it and it will reward you in the long run

I agree they're both great in their own right. No doubt synergy isn't there with I22 for me. You're lucky to have found speakers that work well with it. I would perhaps get use to it time but looking for something to combine the best of the two.

I'm not prepared to change speakers as they suit my room perfectly. I have decent headfi to take me through any changes.

I just want someone else to have a primare i22.im lonely :-(

Well, there are two of you now.

Almost a gathering and it surely warrants an 'owners thread' ...

Mind, us cyrus users can't really talk.

 

[seemorebtts]

I think you know my opinion.the i22 is a great amp and with good pairing can be amazing.i had the same trouble you had it didn't match my Speaker's at the time I bought it which were the Dali opticon 6.but I know that that amp had talent so I sold my Speaker's and went with the dynaudio emit which is a really good combination.i know also that the i22 can lack emotion but the detail can bring you closer to the music and make you hair stand on end.stick with it and it will reward you in the long run

I agree they're both great in their own right. No doubt synergy isn't there with I22 for me. You're lucky to have found speakers that work well with it. I would perhaps get use to it time but looking for something to combine the best of the two.

I'm not prepared to change speakers as they suit my room perfectly. I have decent headfi to take me through any changes.

I just want someone else to have a primare i22.im lonely :-(

I rather enjoy having components that not many people have. There seems to be more interest in A30.1 at present, so I22 will probably stay a bit longer. Who know I might get used to it. Maybe I'll experiment with a tube dac for it to get it to sound sweeter. If I could only get that extra bit of timbre, warmth and fullness it would be perfect.

See the differences are clearly not massive for me to want the best of both. I can't call an overall winner.

I don't think you can achieve what you want from the i22 maybe a pair of sonus faber venere would do wonders for the i22 but they still cost £1000 and you love your ma's.try a power cable like the Clearer audio copper line this can help and it costs nothing to try.the tube DAC sounds exciting you will get some warmth from that. I used to have tube compressers in my studio years ago.let me know how that goes

 

[Frank Harvey]

How long are you listening to these amps? Are you hot swapping, or spending some real time with each? As you a,ready know what the A30 sounds like, out that to one side for a week or two. Listen to the I22 and really get to know it. I find most people tend to compare tonal balance when hot swapping products, as they don't really get enough time to appreciate anything else. Living with the I22 and becoming accustomed to it, you might not find it as a lot more "musical" than you're currently giving it credit for, and when eventually swapping back to the A30, you may find it too warm and even sounding a bit woolly.

This reminds me of the enquiries you used to see of those who had had their existing speakers for decades, and finding that they didn't like the sound of more modern (technically superior) speakers because they were more accurate (see, active lovers? It's not just an "active thing").

 

[Frank Harvey]

In fact, wasn't the A30.1 more expensive than the £995 I22? It was more than £1500 anyway, and probably really sitting between the I22 and I32 with regards to specs/inputs etc (Inotice the A30.1 has balanced inputs like the I32).

 

[insider9]

In fact, wasn't the A30.1 more expensive than the £995 I22? It was more than £1500 anyway, and probably really sitting between the I22 and I32 with regards to specs/inputs etc (Inotice the A30.1 has balanced inputs like the I32).

Hi David, thanks for taking part as I know you're familiar with Primare. Yes the A30.1 was in the region of £1,750 if I recall. And at a time their equivalent to I32. There also was a cheaper A20 which was I22 equivalent.

I've listened to I22 for about a week. I'm very familiar with A30.1 so no need to hot swap. I've listened to a few other amps that sell new for more and much more than I22 so if buying new I wouldn't hesitate to go for it. But that's only if I was also buying speakers to match.

The thing is I got cold feet with A30.1 sale as eventhough all great qualities of I22 it just doesn't touch my heart the same way. I don't think it's something that I can quantify. It may be because of such excellent timbral quality of A30.1. Solo instruments in jazz sound so real. Vocals also transfer more emotion. I22 carries rhythm better and has insane amounts of detail. I just wish I could have best of both.

Do you feel it's possible to achieve this with a different source/pre stage?

 

[seemorebtts]

I think you know my opinion.the i22 is a great amp and with good pairing can be amazing.i had the same trouble you had it didn't match my Speaker's at the time I bought it which were the Dali opticon 6.but I know that that amp had talent so I sold my Speaker's and went with the dynaudio emit which is a really good combination.i know also that the i22 can lack emotion but the detail can bring you closer to the music and make you hair stand on end.stick with it and it will reward you in the long run

I agree they're both great in their own right. No doubt synergy isn't there with I22 for me. You're lucky to have found speakers that work well with it. I would perhaps get use to it time but looking for something to combine the best of the two.

I'm not prepared to change speakers as they suit my room perfectly. I have decent headfi to take me through any changes.

I just want someone else to have a primare i22.im lonely :-(

Well, there are two of you now.

Almost a gathering and it surely warrants an 'owners thread' ...

Mind, us cyrus users can't really talk.

:good:

 

[Oldphrt]

Personally, I wouldn't have any difficulty in deciding what to do.

I will always favour organic musicality over a highly detailed "HiFi" sound. The former will give you hours of listening pleasure; the latter will seem incredible for half an hour, but then you find yourself turning down the volume. The latter sounds great with beautifully recorded music, but renders everything else in a more grating way.

So....I'm not telling you what to do......but GO WITH YOUR HEART!! It's about the music, not about the HiFi.

Once you get a competent amp, (one that makes a small signal big with low distortion and speaker driving capability), organic musicality, whatever that is, is a speakers and room thing.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Hi David, thanks for taking part as I know you're familiar with Primare. Yes the A30.1 was in the region of £1,750 if I recall. And at a time their equivalent to I32. There also was a cheaper A20 which was I22 equivalent.

I've listened to I22 for about a week. I'm very familiar with A30.1 so no need to hot swap. I've listened to a few other amps that sell new for more and much more than I22 so if buying new I wouldn't hesitate to go for it. But that's only if I was also buying speakers to match.

The thing is I got cold feet with A30.1 sale as eventhough all great qualities of I22 it just doesn't touch my heart the same way. I don't think it's something that I can quantify. It may be because of such excellent timbral quality of A30.1. Solo instruments in jazz sound so real. Vocals also transfer more emotion. I22 carries rhythm better and has insane amounts of detail. I just wish I could have best of both.

Do you feel it's possible to achieve this with a different source/pre stage?

The problem is that this "musical" quality is a sort of side effect of amplification that isn't as precise and clean as it is in amplifiers like the current Primares. Maybe using it with a warmer sounding DAC would help? I haven't heard the Yamaha you have, and although some say Yamaha is on the slightly warmer side, that is down to their power amplification rather than their DACs or pre-amplifiers, in my experience. Maybe it's worth trying a DAC or two on the end of the Yamaha just to see what difference theat may bring?

 

[insider9]

The problem is that this "musical" quality is a sort of side effect of amplification that isn't as precise and clean as it is in amplifiers like the current Primares. Maybe using it with a warmer sounding DAC would help? I haven't heard the Yamaha you have, and although some say Yamaha is on the slightly warmer side, that is down to their power amplification rather than their DACs or pre-amplifiers, in my experience. Maybe it's worth trying a DAC or two on the end of the Yamaha just to see what difference theat may bring?

I don't think Yamaha is warm sounding. It's rather neutral. I like that solution as it would be a cost effective.

Any warm sounding dac worth considering?

 

[Electro]

In fact, wasn't the A30.1 more expensive than the £995 I22? It was more than £1500 anyway, and probably really sitting between the I22 and I32 with regards to specs/inputs etc (Inotice the A30.1 has balanced inputs like the I32).

Hi David, thanks for taking part as I know you're familiar with Primare. Yes the A30.1 was in the region of £1,750 if I recall. And at a time their equivalent to I32. There also was a cheaper A20 which was I22 equivalent.

I've listened to I22 for about a week. I'm very familiar with A30.1 so no need to hot swap. I've listened to a few other amps that sell new for more and much more than I22 so if buying new I wouldn't hesitate to go for it. But that's only if I was also buying speakers to match.

The thing is I got cold feet with A30.1 sale as eventhough all great qualities of I22 it just doesn't touch my heart the same way. I don't think it's something that I can quantify. It may be because of such excellent timbral quality of A30.1. Solo instruments in jazz sound so real. Vocals also transfer more emotion. I22 carries rhythm better and has insane amounts of detail. I just wish I could have best of both.

Do you feel it's possible to achieve this with a different source/pre stage?

You can and much more of both *smile*

Whereabouts do you live ?

 

[insider9]

You can and much more of both *smile*

Whereabouts do you live ?

I'm in Sheffield. Just off junction 31 of M1.

 

[insider9]

Electro, looks like you might have been a victim of spam filter...

 

[Electro]

You can and much more of both *smile*

Whereabouts do you live ?

I'm in Sheffield. Just off junction 31 of M1.

That's a shame I am in Essex not far from junction 30 of the M25.

It might be a bit too far to come for a visit so I can demonstrate the difference between Primare and Electrocompaniet.

I don't think a change of source will cure your problem, my Primare Cd 302 was one of the best sounding Cd players I have ever heard but it could not make up for the lack of speed and transient detail from the A301.

If you are ever down this way you are welcome to visit, I also have a spare Electrocompaniet AW 120 power amp we could play with maybe using a pre out or tape connection from the A301 .