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Bass i love it,i need it

gasolin

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Mar 17, 2013
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I really hate to say it but i love bass, have just tried my Q Acoustics 2010i with my nad 3020i again (just for fun), this time all the way back on my desk just under 25cm from a wall and 40-45 mabye 50 cm from a corner, some reflections from my desk, which according to studio monitors like the one i have, is around 200hz(140-150 to 300-350hz).

The 2010i's are not angled towards me, something dali recommneds for there speakers, last time they where a little bright, used supra ply 3.4 now supra classic 6.0, they where a bit anglede and close to 2 times the depth of the speaker to where i was sitting and listening to the speakers.

I tried eric claptons lay down sally from slowhand 35th anniversary edition (tidal hifi, good funky bass) and with the desk reflections,closer to a corner/wall than last time, i had some extra bass, even when it's was loud i couldn't resist cranking the bass 50% up (which according to the specs from a nad 3020e it's 5 db at 50hz) it sounded really good, even 100% didn't distort, just more bass and lay down sally was loud,surprisingly loud, louder than my genelecs (dynamic power from a nad 3020e is 60 watt in 4 ohm) only thing i noticed was that it might not sound to precise do to no being decoupled from my desk (acoustically foam or stands that would make it less boomy/punchy but a bit more precise.

Led zeppelin celebration day (youtube video) also sounded really good,so good that i didn't felt any reason to try it with more bass

I have to have a bigger speaker for more punchy bass, Q acosustics 2010i,2020i,dali speaktor 1/2... dali zensor 1 i have had, i fell they are to brigth,the same with q acoustics 3020,mission lx-2 i also have had which are great but a little big and i wanna try somnething different (again) or even active speakers.

Is dali spektor so much better than dali zensor 1,mission lx-2, q acoutsics 2010i/2020i and 3010/3020 (the last few years best buy award speakers in the same class as the dali spektor 2) that they deserve to be the best speaker (according to whathifi) in it price range.

Is dali spektor 2 worth the extra money compared to spektor 1 the same with q acoustics 2010i/2020i
 

insider9

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Sep 20, 2016
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If you like bass so much that you use tone controls to boost it even more why not use tone controls for treble? If Zensor 1 is too bright for you turn down treble on the amp...
 

MajorFubar

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Mar 3, 2010
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Have you ever thought of buying a subwoofer? You can whack it up to whatever level satisfies your bass-lust.
 

drummerman

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Jan 18, 2008
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Mark Rose-Smith said:
A little bk gemini sub...maybe?
Had very similar one. Great.

However, I think Gasolin perhaps keeps comparing bananas with bananas, no offense.

The speakers in question all cost the same and the amplifier is kind of the same level.

To get good, powerful and controlled bass will cost more unfortunately though a sub will help. -
 

MajorFubar

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Mark Rose-Smith said:
A little bk gemini sub...maybe?
Regretfully I'm not on commission for recommending their products :) I'd be more inclinced to suggest he tries one that he can hear before he buys it.
 

MajorFubar

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drummerman said:
To get good, powerful and controlled bass will cost more unfortunately though a sub will help.
Agreed but sometimes I think we misinterpret the kind of sound some people want. Follow various threads Gasolin has made about this and that speaker and you quickly realise that he likes his bass. I won't say 'at the cost of everything else', but it's high on his list of priorities.

Ball-rattling bass isn't particularly difficult or expensive to achieve if you forget the words "refined" and "accurate", but for the same reason some people splash sauce all over a decent meal, they're not after accurate and refined.

I was in PC World a couple of months ago and they had a Panasonic surround sound system wired up to a TV that absolutely shook the floor, all for £299. I wouldn't have touched it with a bargepole, but the chap they were demo'ing it too, his eyes nearly popped out his sockets. He'd probably listen mine and think it sounds crap.
 

drummerman

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MajorFubar said:
drummerman said:
To get good, powerful and controlled bass will cost more unfortunately though a sub will help.
Agreed but sometimes I think we misinterpret the kind of sound some people want. Follow various threads Gasolin has made about this and that speaker and you quickly realise that he likes his bass. I won't say 'at the cost of everything else', but it's high on his list of priorities.

Ball-rattling bass isn't particularly difficult or expensive to achieve if you forget the words "refined" and "accurate", but for the same reason some people splash sauce all over a decent meal, they're not after accurate and refined.

I was in PC World a couple of months ago and they had a Panasonic surround sound system wired up to a TV that absolutely shook the floor, all for £299. I wouldn't have touched it with a bargepole, but the chap they were demo'ing it too, his eyes nearly popped out his sockets. He'd probably listen mine and think it sounds crap.
True and a funny example :)
 

gasolin

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Mar 17, 2013
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MajorFubar said:
Have you ever thought of buying a subwoofer? You can whack it up to whatever level satisfies your bass-lust.
Have had a subwoofer before, atm i don't have the space for it so i can get most out of it,also if i where to keep using my genelec with a subwoofer it has to be one with a high pass filter, a used the genelec 5040 subwoofer costs twice as much as i payed for genelec 6010a , it's alot of money but i could get a pair of genelec 8040a for 600£ (less than haft of a new pair), if i had the money.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m8774hbi8kcyevi/MOV_0772.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5aq16qy36120dyb/MOV_0771.mp4?dl=0

Compared to the video (recorded with my phone) and listen to it directly from youtube (not the recording from my phone), it sounds as if there something like 15-20hz deeper bass is missing from my phone (sony xperia x)

Original youtbe videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__CRWE-L45k&index=4&list=PLSVOk_ah5YZonH0XZLCK0GTKA8gdf5UYI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoQcGrSYQXI&index=3&list=PLSVOk_ah5YZonH0XZLCK0GTKA8gdf5UYI
 

gasolin

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Mar 17, 2013
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insider9 said:
If you like bass so much that you use tone controls to boost it even more why not use tone controls for treble? If Zensor 1 is too bright for you turn down treble on the amp...
I tried for fun to turn the bass up 8to get an idea of where the limited are for the speaker with my nad amp), i always have my eq at 0 db,neutral

I don't like the dali zensor 1 since to me they have an agressive tweeter that makes it fatiguing to listen to, it's not just about how loud it is, the bass from the zensor 1 i have never felt was more than okay (even with a 12" subwoofer i was missing some midbass, attack, punch ), zensor 1 just sounds to bright to me, bass nothing special.

Spector sounds less bright and there for less ear fattigue, even when they are surpose to be a class lower than the zensor's, not a replacement for the zensors models, where alot of people like the open top the zensors have, i don't (had a pair for about 1 year)
 

gasolin

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Mar 17, 2013
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drummerman said:
Mark Rose-Smith said:
A little bk gemini sub...maybe?
Had very similar one. Great.

However, I think Gasolin perhaps keeps comparing bananas with bananas, no offense.

The speakers in question all cost the same and the amplifier is kind of the same level.

To get good, powerful and controlled bass will cost more unfortunately though a sub will help. -
Relative to what i have now
 

gasolin

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Mar 17, 2013
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Genelec 8040 seems pretty nice, punchy and big

I can go as high as 500£ if i sell my genelec's

600£ is to much, i can't use money from my account i use to pay bills (rent,tv,internet.....electricity) with

Theres of course a difference in sound quality in bass between the 2010i's and my 6010a but the 2010i's do have more and deeper bass, because dynamic headroom is higher they can be pushed more before reaching there limit in the bass

Once tried a youtube bass test video where bass was peaking around 80-90 hz on the 2010i's and generally i fell they have more bass then the q acoustics 3020i, strangely enough *unknw*
 

gasolin

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Mar 17, 2013
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Problem with a subwoofer is that i ony have a preout for a power amp or active speaker, but i could use a splitter and i don't have alot of places where i have space for it, if one place is not optimal i might only have 1 other place i could try.

I do prefer a subwoofer with a high passfilter so i can cut bass at 80,100 or 120hz to make my genelec's play louder,cleaner, more open before theres distortion because of to much bass or just reaching max spl,max power from the amps
 

drummerman

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gasolin said:
Genelec 8040 seems pretty nice, punchy and big

I can go as high as 500£ if i sell my genelec's

600£ is to much, i can't use money from my account i use to pay bills (rent,tv,internet.....electricity) with

 

Theres of course a difference in sound quality in bass between the 2010i's and my 6010a but the 2010i's do have more and deeper bass, because dynamic headroom is higher they can be pushed more before reaching there limit in the bass

Once tried a youtube bass test video where bass was peaking around 80-90 hz on the 2010i's and generally i fell they have more bass then the q acoustics 3020i, strangely enough *unknw*
I fully understand your situation. We're not all minted.

My incling would be to hold fire for a few months, save a little and see if you can listen to the 8040's somewhere if you have not done so already.

Then, if you like them sell everything and get the larger Genelecs bearing in mind you will need a pre amp of sorts.

I hope you find your bass.
 

MajorFubar

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gasolin said:
Problem with a subwoofer is that i ony have a preout for a power amp or active speaker, but i could use a splitter and i don't have alot of places where i have space for it, if one place is not optimal i might only have 1 other place i could try.
I think most of them you can power from the speaker terminals on the amp as well, certainly you can with mine, though I've never tested it in that configuration because I use the Sub output on the master DM10.

The Gemini II is useful upto around 120Hz and down to about 25-30Hz. But by the sounds of you've used subs before so you know the script and what they're capable of.
 

MajorFubar

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Sorry I had forgotten you were using the Genlecs from the NAD's pre-out. You would need a sub with stereo inputs, I don't know how common that is. Mine has them and mine was a cheapy, so presumably most of them do. You could split the NAD's output with Y-cables. Then it would be just a matter of using the roll-off control on the sub to smoothly integrate it to the Genlecs by ear.

But really you're pining for those bigger Genlecs. So it's probably best to just keep saving.
 

gasolin

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Mar 17, 2013
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I think i know what i want if possible (untill i can afford a a pair of genelec 8030,G three or something more crazy in mabye 6 month)

For more bass,deeper bass, more punch,power,dynamic headroom (my 2010i can handle alot more bass than my genelec 6010a and play louder), bassically more bass, a pair of Q Acoustics 2020i, my 2010i are doing a very good job with my nad 3020i and my pc

Not a pair of 3020i since i feel even the 2010i have more bass than a pair of 3020i (starts to roll off at 120hz in the graph)



Concept 20 has -3 db at 66hz and off axis the top is slightly recessed,retracted compared to midrange and bass, with 89db they can play loud,i guess a 2020i has is about the same except for the weight difference



Where do i buy a pair of Q Acoustics 2020i for less than a pair of
3020 that is possibel to get for 149£ for a pair + shipping to denmark where i live?

The speakers are bi wireable, i wouldn't mind some recommendation for a bi wireable cable, something like 4x2.5 mm, splitting the 4 cables into 2x2.5mm for the amp for each speaker terminal and at the speakers 4x2.5mm

https://www.thomann.de/gb/sommer_cableelephant_440.htm

Or this cable 1x4 meter (8x2.5mm) 2x2.5mm for each terminal on the amp end and 1x2.5mm for each therminal on the speaker end where i have one cable with right and left channel and splitted into 1 meter with 4x2.5mm to each speaker.

Like this for 1 channel,1 speaker, it's just one cable since it's a 8 x2.5mm cable perfect for bi-wiring with only one cable for all channels,speaker,terminals



Would it be okay with both channels in one cable?

IF they are colour coated, each cable different colour as the cordial cls825 is

https://www.thomann.de/gb/cordial_cls_825.htm

Is there other cable you can recomend with a neutral sound or good bass and neutral top (still with 4 or 8 cables like the last picture) i should look at?
 

davedotco

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Apr 24, 2013
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gasolin said:
Im not into a ultra deep and boomy bass but more a tight and punchy bass, mabye a little dry

Mabye i should look at klipsch?
Unless you are looking at Hereseys or better.

What you are looking for is not low bass but mid bass kick, the sort of chest thumping presence you get from a 12 or 15" driver in a medium size enclosure. Not difficult, just expensive.

You are actually on the right track with your Genelecs, except that the models you have are really for desktop use and simply not potent enough to give you what you want, to get the bass presence that you want you need a bigger bass driver and more power.

The bigger Genelecs will do that, no problem but at a price. Nothing to stop you saving for a pair, but a pair of 8340s, the moden version of the s/hand model you mention, cost around £2k.

In the meantime, can I suggest that you compromise with a pair of less refined but more capable speakers such as the Yamaha HS7 for a shade over £300, very good value.
 

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