Basic room treatment (acoustics)

[gasolin]

I asked on another forum (a forum about music production,like gearslutz) about basic room treatment.

I got this answer that foam treatment like those from thomann mostly have an effect on the highs and almost no effect on the bass

https://www.thomann.de/gb/standard_absorbers.html?oa=pra

https://www.thomann.de/gb/bass_absorbers.html?oa=pra Some of them are broadband absorbers that i guess by it's name is having an efffect over a broad band,frequency.

I have a little space behinde my 34" monitor and to each side of my monitors (yamaha hs7) i can easily have something in 50x50cm

According to the prices at thomann it's easy to get some basic room treatment for less than 100€, but if all foam elements only have an effect on the highs, it might be a wast of money.

What basic room treatment is possible for under 100€ that actually works, also in the bass (im not a diy person, so don't recomend me anything like that) i would prefer white or grey to make it less noticeable, more discrete,subtle and no screws,adhesive if possible.

A few video with some room treatment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaI-_k6PMs0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHx5XRIifDk

 

[insider9]

First of all. Have you measured your room? There's only so much you can do without measurements. And ordinarily I'd not recommend doing much. Especially if it will cost you anything.

Secondly treating bass will require big bass traps and a lot of treatment with big air gaps and effectively make your room much smaller. Even second hand you will find it impossible at the budget stated to treat bass. Luckily you can do other things. Also good news is you may not need much treatment for bass and DSP may suffice. But that will depend on measurements and what they show. DSP can't treat some things but would improve bass if you need to attenuate it.

Finally the front wall would be one of the last places I'd treat. Unless you're speakers are quite close to it.

If I understand it correctly your setup is nearfield and if so I'd focus on first reflections. Sides, desk and possibly ceiling. If you're unable to DIY it seriously restricts what you can do and makes it far more expensive. I would definitely go second hand route as you can come across bargains. 90% of acoustic room treatment I use is from a recording studio that was relocating. At the same time you'd need a small van to move it around as it takes up a lot of space.

Apologies for short reply and I'll be happy to write more when I'm I front of a PC. It's a massive subject.

Meanwhile, what are your room dimensions? How are your speakers positioned in relation to listening position, side and back walls, desk? Toe in, tilt, stands if any? How far into the room do you usually sit and what's the distance to speakers? How much room could you realistically put in?

 

[gasolin]

The place im using in my living room is next to my balcony, i do have a wall or windows to the left, to be precise

It has a width of 2.45 meter, behinde my monitors (34" screen) i have a shelf on the wall under the shelf and above a radiator i can have some room acoustic foam of some sort, the middle of my desk is placed so it's at the center,middle of my shelf i use for my 25" monitor.

Google translate say lean wall or angled behinde my monitors (speaker and screen), distance to the closes wall is is about 34-35cm and the other wall is about 2.50meters right side about 60 cm and the other side just over 40 cm or in total 1 meter +/- up to 10 cm

Slightly different space on each side of my desk to keep it centered with my shelf i use for my 25" monitor

When i had dali zensor 1's and a smaller screen

https://i.imgur.com/ZbJE4FT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/0Zts2M0.jpg

Stands are obivious at lowest height 9.5cm or 3.7" since Yamaha HS7 are bigger than Dali zensor 1

I could have room treament behinde my 34" monitor, above my speakers and behinde my speakers close to the corner

Not shure what effect those foam has on the sound (less reverb,echo agressiveness that also coud be a loud boomy bass,midrange,top), like earplug to use at concerts they often have some rating on how much they dampening the highs,mids and lows, those foam from thomann doesn't have any ratings om how much effect they have and there for how much you have to use or if you just have to use as much as theres space for the wall(s).

To make an example a set of these https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_takustik_pyramidenschaum_5020_2er_set.htm

cut them 1 in to 4 pieces, behinde and above my speaker (50x50cm) and cut the last to fit under my shelf (30cm wide and 65cm long)

Or 2 of those Hofa absorber eco creme 500x500x110mm (don't have space for them behinde my 34" monitor) them they actually works fro 500hz and up and it happens to be where the room control works (-2db) it works from 500hz and down

Found this i could use to mount it to my wall https://www.thomann.de/dk/eq_acoustics_flexi_fit_32_set.htm?ref=search_rslt_FlexiFit_344971_0

 

[insider9]

I did my acoustic room treatment with DSP in mind. Always intended to use both. There are three things you cannot do with DSP so focusing on these would be a wise choice.

1) Speaker boundary interference (SBIR). The fact your room has a sloped ceiling can possibly be quite beneficial. In order to fight SBIR you need a good amount of absorption which is not only costly but also takes up quite a lot of room. I would not do too much for these reasons at the moment until you can up the budget. Also assuming you don't have many standing waves what you do probably get are room modes (also fewer due to sloped ceiling). Luckily these can be attenuated with DSP.

2) Reverberation. This is how long the sound takes to decay (disappear). The less reverberation the better. It's important that the reverberation is not only reasonably low but consistent throughout frequency range. This is where you may find it difficult to do it without measurements. To effectively lower reverberation in the room you'd need a fair amount of material. Broadband absorbers would be best. Anything that works from 500Hz upwards (ideally lower than that). Bass reverberation will be incredibly difficult to do as above.

3) Early reflections - these will not only colour the sound but will have huge negative impact on imaging and precision. I'd focus on getting these right. This should be the easiest and most cost effective solution and it actually does quite a lot for overall sound quality. These usually are side walls, ceiling and floor (in your case desk). They are easy to do. All you need is to locate the actual surfaces that reflect the sound. Easy to do with someone's help holding a mirror to side walls etc. Sound travels in straight lines so if you can see the speakers in the mirror this is where you should put the treatment. In my case ceilling was the biggest reflection.

I'd focus my attention on side walls and back wall (the one speakers are pointing at). The front wall (one you're facing) does also reflect but they are usually not early midrange/treble reflection but lower frequencies.

I would also suggest moving the speakers forward a little to minimise desk reflections and if you can toe them in, even if it means using attenuators on hf.

Ideally I'd also ask around if you can borrow a measurement microphone and measure your room at listening position. This would help immensly in the process.

 

[gasolin]

I was hoping for some advise on a good starter set, something that is recomended as a basic,not to expensive but good room treatment, safe to buy for most people, can't go wrong with this set (depending on room size you either need alot or not so much).

Like when someone asks for speaker cable, good standard speaker cable that is good and not to expensive, most would properly say van damme or blue jeans (than you just need to figure out what van damme or blue jeans cable you want)

Hi i want some good basic room treatment,something not to expensive that works,what's the size of your room? What speakers do you have? Stands or nor stand?

Here is something that works for most people, a brands with lot's of experience not to expensive, according to manufacture for a small room just as minimum you need 4 or 6 medium sized panels or 8 small ones, it will give you more detailed top,more easy to hear midrange and to a certain degree less boomy,more precise bass and leex echo,reverb compared to use nothing (or a empty room)............... and so on

 

[insider9]

I wish it was this simple I really do. Look at GIK acoustics and what they charge for their services. They're not the only ones. Every room is different and really there isn't anything standard about any of it except for early reflection treatment. I've spent days and weeks research this subject including reading many posts on Gearslutz deciding on best material to diy from. I don't consider myself an expert far from it but gone through the process twice.

I spent weeks setting up my room and then redone it recently all included acoustic measurements prior, during and after. All making sure I actually improve the acoustics and not just have things that look nice (debatable) and don't do much.

I think it's great that you want to do it and I'm not trying to discourage you. It's the single biggest upgrade to your listening if done right. Best part is it will improve most gear you put in your room and will be a long term investment. However I'd take a slow and steady approach to make sure you actually improve things. Not just stick a few pieces of foam where they make little difference.