Balancing (Pioneer) equipment choices

[The_Lhc]

Right, so I've got a KRP-500A coming (have I mentioned that?

) but it's coming without speakers, so to enable the other half to be able to watch TV without having to muck about with amps, I'm also going to get a Pioneer amp to go with it, so the Kuro link activates and controls the amp when you press the volume button on the TV remote (I'm also hiding the amp and other equipment, so the only IR receiver on show will be the one on the TV).

I'm either getting the SC-LX71 amp or I might stretch to the LX81, but either way the question is the same, in the reviews for Pioneer's Blu-ray players (which I'll be getting for the same Kuro link reasons) the BDP-LX71 gets marked down largely because the 51-FD model is nearly as good (despite having inferior video DACs?) and much cheaper, so my question is would it be a false economy to get the 51-FD with either of those amps, and more importantly, the screen, or should I save the money and put it towards the speakers, which I also need to buy because I don't think my old KEF Crestas are going to be up to the job? Or, given that the dealer has just got the BD91 model blu-ray in, should I go the whole hog and get one of those? I haven't seen any reviews of it.

So, money no object it's BD-71 (or 91)->SC-LX81,

or

cheap option: 51-FD -> SC-LX71,

or

compromise options: BD-71 -> SC-LX71 or 51-FD -> SC-LX81

What do people think? One other consideration, I WILL be playing music through this, from a Sonos and also vinyl from a Pro-Ject Debut II Phono SB (which might well get upgraded soon...)

Suggestions for speakers would be good as well, bearing in mind the panel will be wall mounted, so the speakers will need to be fairly close to the wall.

cheers!

 

[The_Lhc]

Hmm, not a sausage, let's test a theory...

Andrew, Clare, any advice? pretty please?

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

I would go for the 81 over the 71 , get a 51 and spend your money on speakers. Tannoy Revolution Signature's would be my first choice.

The LX91 is stunning but I would get the amp and speakers right first before you consider that. A £1000 spent on a better subwoofer or front speakers may lift your system a lot more than the 91 or the 51/71

Nick

 

[Andy Madden]

I concur - the BDP-LX91 is more of a fit with Pioneer's high-end SC-LX90 amp. If it was a straight choice between the 'LX71 and 'LX81 amps we'd spend a little extra and get the latter.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Nick, you will probably know this, is it true that Yamaha amps cut some power to 6ohm speakers if true, is it correct for all yamaha amps. And do all amp manufacturers do this, when you select a 6ohm setting on an amp for your 6ohm speakers.?

 

[Sc00bied00]

the_lhc:

Right, so I've got a KRP-500A coming (have I mentioned that?

) but it's coming without speakers, so to enable the other half to be able to watch TV without having to muck about with amps, I'm also going to get a Pioneer amp to go with it, so the Kuro link activates and controls the amp when you press the volume button on the TV remote (I'm also hiding the amp and other equipment, so the only IR receiver on show will be the one on the TV).

See my note in your other forum post here regarding the side speaker for the TV, I had the same problem with my other half and the kids, couldn't figure out how to turn on the amp etc also allows late night listening.

I'm still needing to sort out speakers for surround use, WHF team advise partnering with Tannoy Signatures for the LX81 as this seems to pair well, I haven't heard these yet but are on my list, also PMC FB1i have been recommended. Listened to the KEF 3005se with this amp and felt they were holding it back, even thought they are capable. My suggestion would be to get the speakers sorted and go for the 51-FD as this can be upgraded at a later date and also re-sellable. I would recommend the LX -81 as the driving force for the setup as it is a step up from the LX-71. Remember the amp is deep and heavy so make sure your support has the necessary area to accomodate. Only my opinion so any more suggestions from others should be listened too.

cheers - sc00bie

 

[The_Lhc]

TheHomeCinemaCentre:
I would go for the 81 over the 71ÿ, get a 51 and spend your money on speakers.

Ok, interesting, you don't think the "inferior video DAC" of the 51 will short-change the 500A, visually?

Tannoy Revolution Signature's would be my first choice.

yeah same as WHF's suggestion.ÿ

The LX91 is stunning but I would get the amp and speakers right first before you consider that.

I suspect you're right. The blu-ray will probably be the last thing on the shopping list (I can't do it all at once, much as I'd like to), although having said that at least I have got speakers at the moment, whereas I don't have an HDMI equipped amp or blu-ray right now, decisions, decisions...

A £1000 spent on a better subwoofer or front speakers may lift your system a lot more than the 91 or the 51/71

hmmm, not sure I'll get away with a sub costing that much from 'er indoors, not because of the price, but the size probably, I don't run a sub right now and she complains about volume anyway, I'm not sure she's even aware such as a thing as a sub exists either, so I'll have to ensure it's not too intrusive, visually or aurally (set up properly she shouldn't notice it aurally anyway, I don't like booming bass either).

 

[The_Lhc]

Andy Madden:I concur - the BDP-LX91 is more of a fit with Pioneer's high-end SC-LX90 amp.

Yeah I half expected it was, I'm happy with that, I can't spend 5 grand on an amp, more's the pity!

If it was a straight choice between the 'LX71 and 'LX81 amps we'd spend a little extra and get the latter.

Yeah I think the 81+51 combo probably works out about the same price as the 71+71, in which case I'd rather have the better amp, as I'll be using it for other sources which the better blu-ray player won't give any benefit to. And I can upgrade the blu-ray player later, I'm not likely to upgrade the amp for a while once I've got it.

 

[The_Lhc]

Sc00bied00:the_lhc:
Right, so I've got a KRP-500A coming (have I mentioned that?

) but it's coming without speakers, so to enable the other half to be able to watch TV without having to muck about with amps, I'm also going to get a Pioneer amp to go with it, so the Kuro link activates and controls the amp when you press the volume button on the TV remote (I'm also hiding the amp and other equipment, so the only IR receiver on show will be the one on the TV).

See my note in your other forum postÿhereÿregarding the side speaker for the TV, I had the same problem with my other half and the kids, couldn't figure out how to turn on the amp etc also allows late night listening.

I know what you're saying, and I was concerned about it myself, but watching the guy control everything from the TV remote directly through the TV (switching inputs on the TV, which the amp will follow, changing the volume from the TV remote which changes the amp volume), with his back to the amp and blu-ray player, has put my mind at rest to a certain extent, we don't have kids to worry about either!

I'm still needing to sort out speakers for surround use, WHF team advise partnering with Tannoy Signatures for the LX81 as this seems to pair well, I haven't heard these yet but are on my list, also PMC FB1i have been recommended. Listened to the KEF 3005se with this amp and felt they were holding it back, even thought they are capable. My suggestion would be to get the speakers sorted and go for the 51-FD as this can be upgraded at a later date and also re-sellable.ÿ I would recommend the LX -81 as the driving force for the setup as it is a step up from the LX-71. Remember the amp is deep and heavy so make sure your support has the necessary area to accomodate.

Yes I'll have to see if I can find any specs on my current rack regarding the weight capacity, it's got glass shelves and they're not that thick. Nuts, just realised I'll need another shelf, it's only got 4, and I'll have amp, blu-ray, media box, Sky and DVD (for my region 1 DVDs). Oh well, something else to add to the list...

ÿOnly my opinion so any more suggestions from others should be listened too.

more than appreciated, thank you very much!

 

[Anonymous]

Hi,

A mate of mine has the LX81 amp combined with the LX71 Blu Ray player. It's a stunningly good combo.ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

I recently bought a PDP 5090, BDP lx71 and SC lx71. I've been very pleased with all three purchases, though I think I would have opted for the BDP 51 in retrospect, and 81 amp if I'd had the money at the time (I got a deal on the amp so getting the 51 still wouldn't have made up for the extra expense of the 81 amp). The issue regarding the slightly inferior video DACs on the 51 shouldn't really figure as you're likely to be using HDMIs to connect it all, which means that the video DACs won't be used (they only come into play when outputting analogue video via components, etc...).

Since you're also going to be using the amp for music, though the 71 is good in this respect in my opinion (significantly better than my old Pioneer VSX A5i, for example), it's still not as good as a dedicated stereo amp, especially regarding bass (my old £500 NAD 319 stereo amp was much better for music, for example). As a result, I reckon the LX81 amp would suit you better, given WHF's recent comparison of the two in this regard (I've not actually compared the two myself), as it seems to be this area in particular that they feel there is the biggest improvement in the 81 over he 71.

Hope that's helpful. Good luck with your purchases as I think all of the kit you're considering is likely to impress!!!

 

[Sc00bied00]

Hi the_lhc, I don't control everything from the one remote unfortunately, due to the V+ being hooked up so i can leave TV off and just have music channels or radio playing. I know that the TV can be put in to a picture off mode but this is just adding confusion for what buttons to press blah de blah, so an option for me might be a logitech remote. If you go all units as pioneer then you should be sorted!

Is there an option to add a shelf to your existing unit?

Make sure you get demo's, the LX-81 continues to grow on me and I don't regret the purchase. I find it versatile and sonic performance is more than expected. Point to note, it doesn't upscale and the manual is as clear as mud at times

. In the great HDMI debate remember that the tv is supplied by the breakout box and can't use anything but pio's own cable, what you do in regards to how much you spend on these to connect the remaining equip to the amp is personal choice. In the end if you go this route you should be more than happy.

sc00bie

 

[The_Lhc]

DawnandJim:
I recently bought a PDP 5090, BDP lx71 and SC lx71.ÿ I've been very pleased with all three purchases, though I think I would have opted for the BDP 51 in retrospect, and 81 amp if I'd had the money at the time (I got a deal on the amp so getting the 51 still wouldn't have made up for the extra expense of the 81 amp).ÿ The issue regarding the slightly inferior video DACs on the 51 shouldn't really figure as you're likely to be using HDMIs to connect it all, which means that the video DACs won't be used (they only come into play when outputting analogue video via components, etc...).

Guh, whoops, yeah I knew that of course! <cringe>ÿ

Since you're also going to be using the amp for music, though the 71 is good in this respect in my opinionÿ(significantly better than my old Pioneer VSX A5i, for example), it's still not as good as a dedicated stereo amp, especially regarding bass (my old £500 NAD 319 stereo amp was much better for music, for example).ÿ As a result, I reckon the LX81 amp would suit you better, given WHF's recent comparison of the two in this regard (I've not actually compared the two myself), as it seems to be this area in particular that they feel there is the biggest improvement in the 81 over he 71.

Hope that's helpful.ÿ Good luck with your purchases as I think all of the kit you're considering is likely to impress!!!


Yeah I think it's the music requirement that's probably going to swing it (it's not a massive requirement but it is one I need to consider), thanks for the help!

 

[The_Lhc]

Sc00bied00:
Hi the_lhc, I don't control everything from the one remote unfortunately, due to the V+ being hooked up so i can leave TV off and just have music channels or radio playing. I know that the TV can be put in to a picture off mode but this is just adding confusion for what buttons to press blah de blah, so an option for me might be a logitech remote. If you go all units as pioneer then you should be sorted!

Yeah I thought a logitech, but if I can do it from a pioneer remote then I think that'll be more convenient, especially for the other half, she's a bit of a technophobe.ÿ

Is thereÿan option to add a shelf to your existing unit?

No, I don't think so, not to worry, another excuse to buy more toys!ÿ

Make sure you get demo's, the LX-81 continues to grow on me and I don't regret the purchase.

I spent a while listening to one at the weekend but not with the speakers I'd be wanting, so I'll have to arrange something there.ÿ

I find it versatile and sonic performance is more than expected. Point to note, it doesn't upscale

really? The WHF tech notes seem to imply it does?ÿ

and the manual is as clear as mud at times

. In the great HDMI debate remember that the tv is supplied by the breakout box and can't use anything but pio's own cable,

yeah one of the reasons I'm getting the KRP is because of the breakout box, all the equipment is going to the cupboard under the stairs at the side of the room, so everything that needs to will connect to the breakout box and there'll just be the one cable going to the panel. I'm getting the 10m cable for it from Pioneer as well, the standard 3m one won't be long enough.

what you do in regards to how much you spend on these to connect the remaining equip to the amp is personal choice.

Well hopefully I can save a bit of money there because I'll only need 0.5m hdmi cables, maybe one 1m tops, that should cut the price a little.

In the end if you go this route you should be more than happy.

I should hope so!

 

[Sc00bied00]

I find it versatile and sonic performance is more than expected. Point to note, it doesn't upscale

really? The WHF tech notes seem to imply it does?

Hmmm, well you got me thinking as nobody has counter questioned / pointed out this before when I have posted, so checked the manual, right at the back it states (page133 Additional info)

Also, the built-in digital video converter of this receiver makes both deinterlacing and up-scaling possible, and analog video signals being input are converted and output as digital video signals at the HDMI terminal."

So I stand corrected and apologise if it was misleading, I can't remember where I read it didn't

but thanks for saying and I'll go write a 100 times to make sure it sinks in !! Can't believe I didn't see this in the March edition of the mag either, time to get the O-O/ checked , slinks off to corner for hat

Cheers - sc00bie

 

[Anonymous]

It will upscale/deinterlace analogue video, but won't upscale HDMI inputs.

 

[Sc00bied00]

Thanks dell, I thought I was loosin me marble's, me head is mince, nasty day at work, I'm sure I covered this with you a previous post? Any way how you enjoying the amp?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm loving the Amp, really enjoying streaming music on the network and internet radio as well. I'm going to try biamping the front speakers soon, I have to rip out the skirting boards anway. Looking at upgrading the BD player next, thinking about the 71 or the Denon transport but want to compare with my BD30 first.

 

[Sc00bied00]

Glad to hear it. I'm really happy with it too. bi- amping, should be worthwhile excercise, are you just adding more of the same cable or have you got another in mind? Sounds like a bit of re-decoration going on too....discovery for the network works well so many stations to play with. BD players are moving so fast on the development side I think I'll wait a bit to see how market goes, more desparate to get a decent surround speaker set up. Think the denon has a slight edge over the 71, I don't know how much influence the PQLS would have, I do know the guy's at my local shop say it makes a difference, price drops may make it easier, tough choice all the same, home demo sounds way forward. Let us know how things go, would be good to hear,

cheers - sc00bie

 

[Anonymous]

Sc00bied00:
Glad to hear it. I'm really happy with it too. bi- amping, should be worthwhile excercise, are you just adding more of the same cable or have you got another in mind? Sounds like a bit of re-decoration going on too....discovery for the network works well so many stations to play with. BD players are moving so fast on the development side I think I'll wait a bit to see how market goes, more desparate to get a decent surround speaker set up. Think the denon has a slight edge over the 71, I don't know how much influence the PQLS would have, I do know the guy's at my local shop say it makes a difference, price drops may make it easier, tough choice all the same, home demo sounds way forward. Let us know how things go, would be good to hear,

cheers - sc00bie
Not decorating although may have to if taking the skirts out takes half the wall with it. I'm replacing the HDMI to my PJ and thought just as well put in extra speaker cable for the fronts to bi-amp, not sure what type to use as yet, now thinking about it I might put in a wall box with speaker terminals, then have the option to switch back if I want.
I must say the Denon appeals to me, price may drop more once the new crop of players come through.

 

[Sc00bied00]

removing the skirts...memories of when we moved in here, "ok we'll put in new skirting boards, no problem!" 4 bags of bonding 1 bag plaster, even left the 'grounds' out - bad move what do I nail the new skirts to DOH!!!! still I wish I had had the foresight to put in conduit for routing cable through. Personally I prefer using banana plugs make life easy and the wall speaker terminals make sense, assuming you dont change the room layout. having been used to simple bi-wiring going back to a single run was horrible (mind you was same cable, more expensive cable may have improved over biwire), could be more painful after living with bi-amping.

I think the denon would make a fine addition, its only one extra remote! - logitech, logitech,logitech.....

Sc00bie

 

[drummerman]

Sc00bied00:
removing the skirts...memories of when we moved in here, "ok we'll put in new skirting boards, no problem!" 4 bags of bonding 1 bag plaster, even left the 'grounds' out - bad move what do I nail the new skirts to DOH!!!! still I wish I had had the foresight to put in conduit for routing cable through. Personally I prefer using banana plugs make life easy and the wall speaker terminals make sense, assuming you dont change the room layout. having been used to simple bi-wiring going back to a single run was horrible (mind you was same cable, more expensive cable may have improved over biwire), could be more painful after living with bi-amping.

I think the denon would make a fine addition, its only one extra remote! - logitech, logitech,logitech.....

Sc00bie
I have the 5090 and when I (very briefly) compared the Denon with both the Pioneer LX71 and BD51 I could'nt see or hear much difference, if anything I found the pioneers to be slightly sharper. The film used was 'I am legend'. My dealer agreed incidentally. Perhaps your KRP warrants the extra outlay but I found the entry pioneer to strike a good balance and value for money and the same brand features appealed. That was done in about ten minutes and was enough for me but I appreciate that in longer trials the Denon may come up tops, as it should for the considerable extra outlay.

 

[Sc00bied00]

Hi Drummerman, as you say the demo is definately the way to choose... if it was something I'd be buying and the prices did come down I would still demo, I'm sure there are +/- point for both units, yet another remote to mess around with if the pio's can be programmed for it to use the denon, PQLS on the pio, visually matching units, kuro link etc definately personal chioce, good to hear from someone thats actually got 1st hand experience of this already. - sc00bie