Advice, please. I've been very happy with my B&W DM303s which I was able to pick up secondhand seven years ago for my small living room - especially since they were later complemented with the ASW300 subwoofer. I should be grateful for opinions as to whether or not the sound offered by a pair of newer 685s would warrant an upgrade to them from the 303s; the subwoofer would be retained. Orchestral, choral and organ music constitutes the bulk of my CD collection.
B&W - DM303 v 685
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MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Wolsey said:
Hi Wolsey
Anyone else also likely to use the system? If so, what do they listen to?
Are the speakers stand, shelf or wall mounted?
Room positioning of the speakers (in relation to walls, anything in between or either side of the speakers such as windows, chimney breast etc.)?
Walls (stone, brick etc.)?
Your general listening level?
Listening distance?
Do you use the tone controls on the amplifier?
Your speaker cables?
What improvement are you looking for a new pair of speakers to give you over your existing 303's?
Your overall budget?
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Hi running123
I am sorry but i don't find your comment amusing at all.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
I am sorry but i don't find your comment amusing at all.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
MUSICRAFT said:
I mean no offence. I have no doubt your exacting approach is the best. No single comedian can ever please everyone, but we can but try.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone."
— Bill Cosby
Hi Rick
Anyone else also likely to use the system? No
Are the speakers stand, shelf or wall mounted? Stand (loaded with sand)
Room positioning of the speakers (in relation to walls, anything in between or either side of the speakers such as windows, chimney breast etc.)? Window side of front room in terrraced house, either side of single sash window; near to walls and toed in.
Walls (stone, brick etc.)? Plaster on brick walls
Your general listening level? Low: the room is small, with neighbours on both sides.
Listening distance? 7 feet
Do you use the tone controls on the amplifier? Yes
Your speaker cables? Gale Hyperlatz 250
What improvement are you looking for a new pair of speakers to give you over your existing 303's? That's what I'm asking; will there be an improvement?
Your overall budget? £400
Anyone else also likely to use the system? No
Are the speakers stand, shelf or wall mounted? Stand (loaded with sand)
Room positioning of the speakers (in relation to walls, anything in between or either side of the speakers such as windows, chimney breast etc.)? Window side of front room in terrraced house, either side of single sash window; near to walls and toed in.
Walls (stone, brick etc.)? Plaster on brick walls
Your general listening level? Low: the room is small, with neighbours on both sides.
Listening distance? 7 feet
Do you use the tone controls on the amplifier? Yes
Your speaker cables? Gale Hyperlatz 250
What improvement are you looking for a new pair of speakers to give you over your existing 303's? That's what I'm asking; will there be an improvement?
Your overall budget? £400
I used to have the B&W DM303s with an Arcam setup. Arcam electronics went to my sister-in-law who added... B&W 685s...!
IMHO, the sound is very similar, I would be very pushed to tell the difference. I am not sure that you would benefit hugely from the change.
The DM303s are a lovely little speaker for a smaller room. Just missing a bit of bass esp in larger rooms...
IMHO, the sound is very similar, I would be very pushed to tell the difference. I am not sure that you would benefit hugely from the change.
The DM303s are a lovely little speaker for a smaller room. Just missing a bit of bass esp in larger rooms...
MUSICRAFT said:
I agree...
Running; Rick is simply trying toin find out all info from the OP so that he can give some ideas re other speakers to aim for and in doing so, giving the right suggestions first time round
Music tastes, room layout and speaker positioning can make or break a system...
eternaloptimist said:
I do agree that moving to the B&W 685's may be more of a sideways move BUT the 685's WILL give you better, deeper and punchier bass with a more detailed and well timed midrange; purley for the fact that they're newer and more better designed speakers than the 303's...
The 303's were good but got a bit wooley when pushed...
For £400 you could consider small floorstanding speakers such as 2nd hand Rega RS3's, Monitor Audio RS6's or the newer Monitor Audio BX5's
If you're happy with the sound youre getting now though through your speakers; what about upgrading the CDP to a beter onel such as the Rega Apollo or an Arcam CD192?
I also think, IMO, that better speaker cable such as the Chord Odyssey 2 or QED Revelation would be a good move as would a better interconnect like the Chord CobraPlus or the Black Rhodium Prelude
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Wolsey said:
Hi Wolsey
Thanks for your reply.
I used to sell the 303 speakers and i can honestly say these are one of the finest speakers which B&W have produced. If you are happy with their performance then i'll strongly advise to to carry on using them as i don't feel the 685's will warrant the change. The 303's fuller balance also helps offset the upfront presentation of the RA-05/RCD-06.
Having said this if you still want an improvement and are happy to again consider buying a used pair of speakers then look no further the superb 601 S3's (which were also in production at the same time as the 303's and had an RRP of £250). The 601 S3's easily waranted their £70 premium over the 303's by offering even tighter bass, a more open and clearer mid range and less colouration. Fwiw, i would have pair of 601 MK3's over 685's anyday.
Other then the 601 S3's i think you'll have to look at alternative makes to justify any extra expense.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Firstly, I'd just like to set the record straight about the RA05 not being upfront, it's pretty neutral - as neutral an amplifier as you can get at it's price point. Although 601's possess a better bass response than the 303's, I wouldn't move to them, or the 685's, as the 303's will suit a smaller room better than the 600 series. The 601's had quite a lively and extended bass for their size, partly due to their cabinet coloration. Because the speaker had so much bass, midrange seemed quite recessed in comparison, so they didn't sound particularly neutral.
If you really want an improvement over the 303's, you should try the KEF Q300's.
If you really want an improvement over the 303's, you should try the KEF Q300's.
I have made the transition from the DM303 to the 685 two years ago. Even in my small room I believe the upgrade to be significant. While the DM303 was a great speaker (for the money) with a balanced sound signature, the 685 sounds 'bigger' and less 'boxed': they have a larger soundstage, punchier bass, an impressive tweeter which produces a very sweet treble and a more lively presentation. Although I must say they need quality amplification to get the best out of them. I had Marantz budget components at first and it didn't sound bad at all, but when I bought Naim seperates (5i/CD5i) last summer I was (and still am) very impressed with the performance of these speakers. I believe the front ported design to be ideal for small rooms. Maybe you could arrange a demo in your house?
Best of luck, Wolsey!
Best of luck, Wolsey!
Audiofoolius said:
^^^
Good call; a side by side demo with your amp and CDP should give you an idea of whether it'd be the right move or not
However if you were to do that; then I'd definitly consider demoing the Dali Lektor 2's, KEF Q300's and even possibly the Monitor Audio BX5 floorstanding speakers
I'm very grateful to all who have shared their opinions, and I will make enquiries about a home demo to three reputable hi-fi dealers in my area. The 303s have served me very well - and will no doubt continue to do so, so based on your opinions, the urgency for a change is not immediately pressing.
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Wolsey said:
Hi Wolsey
Your welcome and nice one
In the mean time please do also keep a look out for 601 S3's.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Hi. I don´t know if you want one more opinion, but I´l tell you mine, cause I have both, in diferent rooms of course. The results always depend to the electronics you´re matching to these speakers, OK! I have the DM303 since 2005 hooked to a Harman Kardon AVR 435 and they sound very well, but for stereo you need to use a subwoofer, otherwise DM303 won´t handle bass satisfictorily. I think these speakers are a gem in hifi world, considering the price. Then in 2008 I bought a receiver Denon AVR3808Ci and the 685. In the begining, I thought I made a big mistake, but after two months, I could feel how this "pair" gave me what I was expecting from them. For me, I don´t need a subwoofer for stereo cause 685 handles bass enough and the sound is much calmer for me. I think the principal diference you´ll feel, if you make the trade between DM303 x 685, considering the size of your room , it will be a more calm and refined sound with more punch than you have today, and probably, you won´t need the sub. Only if you like bass a lot, then keep it. I hope I could help you.
As a follow-up, I thought that I should report that I did take my DM303s to my local dealer in June in order to compare them with the 685s. The 303s appeared brighter, while the 685s had a more natural sound, and a better integration of the lower, middle and upper aural ranges.
Last week though, the comparison was between the 685s and the CM1s, and I was astonished that - for their size - the CM1s gave an even better reproduction of mid-low frequencies in my audition CDs where I was listening to the floor tom and bass drum of a drum kit; organ music including a 32' flue stop; and piano music (two octaves or so below middle C). To my ears, there was also a sense of a more disciplined, convincing balance of lower, middle and upper ranges; it was even more 'natural'. At home, the dimension of depth is even greater in the aural spectrum (i.e. you can tell who's playing in the front, middle or back desks in orchestral music), and the existing subwoofer extends the bass register perfectly.
For my set-up, the CM1s have proved to be a good buy, while the still-loved 303s will move upstairs and continue to give good service on the secondary hi-fi.
Thanks again to all for their input.
Last week though, the comparison was between the 685s and the CM1s, and I was astonished that - for their size - the CM1s gave an even better reproduction of mid-low frequencies in my audition CDs where I was listening to the floor tom and bass drum of a drum kit; organ music including a 32' flue stop; and piano music (two octaves or so below middle C). To my ears, there was also a sense of a more disciplined, convincing balance of lower, middle and upper ranges; it was even more 'natural'. At home, the dimension of depth is even greater in the aural spectrum (i.e. you can tell who's playing in the front, middle or back desks in orchestral music), and the existing subwoofer extends the bass register perfectly.
For my set-up, the CM1s have proved to be a good buy, while the still-loved 303s will move upstairs and continue to give good service on the secondary hi-fi.
Thanks again to all for their input.
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