Should I get B&W 683s or 685?

Jeff

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I am building a system from scratch, starting with a clean slate. I have been looking at B&W 685s and 683s at Best Buy, along with a Marantz SR5010 receiver. For about the same amount of money, I could get 685s, stands, and a subwoofer, or the 683s. Either way I might eventually get a center speaker and rear speakers for movies, but in the beginning it will only be the 685s with subwoofer or the 683s. If I started off with the 685s I could even use those as rear speakers some day and either get another pair of 685s for front speakers or get 683s. I would rather have a good hi fi for music rather than a theater system if I had to have one or the other at this time.

My livingroom is about 18 ft X 17 ft with a flat 9 ft ceiling. The kitchen/dining room is right beside it. There is a 5 ft wide full height opening between the two rooms, and the wall that divides the two spaces is only 4 ft high, so there will only be reflection on part of the partition between the living room and dining room. The other end of the living room actually extends beyond the 17 ft but narrows towards the front door. I have a ceramic tile floor. I don't have a rug yet, but will probably get one. I currently have bare sheetrock walls, but will eventually put some art up. There would be quite a bit of reflection from the walls and floors the way it is now.

The way the room lays out, I can't see having the speakers more than a foot from the wall. The front door lines up with the wall that the speakers would be on, and that is the path to the kitchen. Moving the speakers further from the wall would disrupt the flow of traffic through the house. Bummer. The salesman told me that since the 683s are ported on the front rather than the rear of the speakers, that isn't an issue. Is he correct about that? I wonder if the 685's would be more forgiving being placed close to the wall than the 683s would be.

Considering the size of the space, would the 685s or the 683s be a better fit? How does that answer change if I needed to place the speakers closer to the wall than what would otherwise be optimum? How does the port being on the front rather than the rear of the speakers change things?
 

perseus

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If I were you, I would start with bookshelf speakers first combined with a sub. You can relegate them to surround duties later if you decide to buy floorstanders. I started my journey with bookshelf speakers for my front L/R. And now after several upgrades I use floorstanders as my L/R just because I'm afraid my son might bump into the bookshelf speakers someday and tipped them over. Even now I still listens to my floorstanders with the sub turned on most of the time. Just make sure the receiver you buy has bass management and sub equalizer (or the eq built into the sub) to integrate the sub and the speakers properly. For me, subwoofer eq is a must since I cannot add bass traps in my bedroom/cinema room. Put the sub near your front speakers (I put my sub in between Center and L/R speakers) to blend the sound better.
 

Jeff

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Will the 685s sound better than the 683s for frequencies higher than 100 hz, and the subwoofer sound better than the 683s for everything below 100 hz since the speakers wouldn't have to do everything within the same cabinet?
 

Reijer

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Hi Jeff.

Welcome to the forum.

What will be your main source?

If you are starting from scratch, why only focus on B&W? There is so much more. Take your music to a store and have a listen to whatever the salesman can offer you for your money and reflect on waht you hear. The salesman can help you with your wishes and possibilities.
 

NS496

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My space shares some of the characteristics which you describe with the added challenges of glass plane doors! We can't all use separate 'studio rooms' with ideal acoustic characteristics unfortunately ;) . I have to use 685's due to a concrete component shelf prohibiting use of floorstanders, but 683 would probably be a better match for a very big room. That being said, the 685 do a remarkable job. It is a really 'big sounding' small speaker to my ears. Great with stereo especially. The 685 comes with a 'port plug' which turns it into a sealed enclosure for close to the wall operation, I don't know if the 683 have same capability. Remember to get the most out of 685's you need to get quality stands as well, so plan for that as well. The B&W DS3 dipole dedicated rear speakers work especially well in my space, much better than regular speakers for me. In short, I would actually think 683 will be better in large space, but if not possible 685 + sub will also probably work well. If you can, get a home demo. Speakers have room interactions which might be difficult to predict.
 

Jeff

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I didn't know if my space was considered to be large enough for 683s, or too large for 685s. You confirmed that it is large enough for 683s. I don't know that it is too large for 685s.

What are your thoughts about the back of the speakers being a foot from the wall? Will that be a problem for the 683s, being that they are front ported? Would it be less of a problem for the 685s?

Would a subwoofer fill the gap on the low end of the 685s that the larger 683s would already cover? Is there a reason why either the 685s with subwoofer or 683s would sound better?

The reason I focused on B&W is because I live in a small town and there aren't any dedicated stereo stores that I know of. We have a Best Buy and everyone there has steered me towards them. The reviews online are good.
 

jonathanRD

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Even thoough the 685's are quite large standmount speakers, you do have a large and 'open' room and I think the 683's will fill it far better. The 683's will give you greater scale for 2 channel music and you won't have to worry about sub placement and adjusting the sub to blend with the 685's. Either way placing speakers close to the wall has it's issues, and the more soft furnishing/furniture you can add to reduce reflections - the better.

What type of music do you listen to? and how loud? - and how far away from the speakers will your listening position be? Ideally you need to listen to the speakers to see which you prefer for music.

Eventually, IMO, to get the best from movies, you will need a sub anyway, irrespective of whether you have floorstanders or standmount speakers, but ignore that for now, and get what sounds best to you for music.

Hopefully others who have or have demoed these speakers will add their views.
 

Jeff

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As far as how far the speakers are from the back wall, are the effects linear with respect to distance? Will 6" give twice the reflection as 12", and 12" give twice the rejection as 24"? B&W recommends that the speakers be 20" from the wall. I think I am good for maybe 12-16. I don't think the speakers in the demo room at Best Buy are 20". I noticed that they recommend 20" for their rear ported speakers as well. Is this a generic distance that applies equally well to all speakers, or does it apply more to rear ported speakers? I am still curious if the speakers being front ported makes a difference.

Is art work a good reflective surface for walls or would I need something else? Is it better for the speakers to be on a rug or hard floor? If I get a rug should it be under the speakers, furniture, or both?

I will be 11.5 feet from the speakers. The speakers will be about 8 ft apart.
 

Jeff

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Here is a good article about acoustics:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-PIZAvrPBvSt/learn/learningcenter/home/speakers_roomacoustics.html#materials_table

Without buying a lot of low frequncy sound absorbers, it looks like distance from walls, both me and my speakers, is my friend in regards to low frequency sound. I guess everybody already knew that. For high frequency Echo, a few canvas paintings, a few shelves with knickknacks, a few plants, and a rug and I should be good to go.
 

jonathanRD

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Hi Jeff, when I first started looking at speaker placement the following site (and calculations) was a recommended read - http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php and this site is also a good starting point http://gikacoustics.co.uk/basics-room-setup-acoustic-panels-bass-traps/.

I would also recommend (although it sounds like you have already found some information) to search for articles on 'speaker placement close to walls' and room accoustics.

My room is 4m wide by 5m long. Originally I had small standmount speakers that were fine in another smaller room but were a bit lost in this bigger room. My floorstanders are much better and it was their scale I noticed the most when I first got them. I eventually managed to place my floorstanders 1m in from the back wall and 0.8m from the side walls. They are 2.3m apart and I sit 2.6m away from them. I watched a video (cant remember the link) of some American hifi dealers talking about their long experience of setting up speakers in their customers homes. From memory I think they said that what worked best most often - was to take the distance from the speakers to the listening position and multiply it by 0.87 - that being the distance to place the speakers apart. In simple terms this is an equalateral triangle stretched longways a little. But they also said to always experiment with placement.

My room was/is also very reflective, so I have added a large shaggy rug that covers the floor between the speakers and my seating position.

I'm not sure whether you can, but the best option is to get the speakers on a home demo to see how they perform in your room.
 

emperor's new clothes

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Hi Jeff,

Firstly, I would go for the 683s. FWIIW, I prefered the similar sized Dali IKon 6 ( front port for bass, mid rear ported), just personal choice over the 683s to partner Marantz SR7007, but not much in it. Opticon6 better still, IMHO. I would recommend bi-amping - a simple set up using the main and surround back terminals. You then need in enable in the speaker setup menu, next run Audyssey which helps eliminate any boom and bass overhang in the room. If you reposition the speakers, you need to run it again. Dali recomends at least 20cm from rear wall - I found 28 ideal.
 

Jeff

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emperor's new clothes said:
Hi Jeff,

Firstly, I would go for the 683s. FWIIW, I prefered the similar sized Dali IKon 6 ( front port for bass, mid rear ported), just personal choice over the 683s to partner Marantz SR7007, but not much in it. Opticon6 better still, IMHO. I would recommend bi-amping - a simple set up using the main and surround back terminals. You then need in enable in the speaker setup menu, next run Audyssey which helps eliminate any boom and bass overhang in the room. If you reposition the speakers, you need to run it again. Dali recomends at least 20cm from rear wall - I found 28 ideal.

i can get 28 cm easily. Thanks!
 

Jeff

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jonathanRD said:
Hi Jeff, when I first started looking at speaker placement the following site (and calculations) was a recommended read - http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php and this site is also a good starting point http://gikacoustics.co.uk/basics-room-setup-acoustic-panels-bass-traps/.

I would also recommend (although it sounds like you have already found some information) to search for articles on 'speaker placement close to walls' and room accoustics.

My room is 4m wide by 5m long. Originally I had small standmount speakers that were fine in another smaller room but were a bit lost in this bigger room. My floorstanders are much better and it was their scale I noticed the most when I first got them. I eventually managed to place my floorstanders 1m in from the back wall and 0.8m from the side walls. They are 2.3m apart and I sit 2.6m away from them. I watched a video (cant remember the link) of some American hifi dealers talking about their long experience of setting up speakers in their customers homes. From memory I think they said that what worked best most often - was to take the distance from the speakers to the listening position and multiply it by 0.87 - that being the distance to place the speakers apart. In simple terms this is an equalateral triangle stretched longways a little. But they also said to always experiment with placement.

My room was/is also very reflective, so I have added a large shaggy rug that covers the floor between the speakers and my seating position.

I'm not sure whether you can, but the best option is to get the speakers on a home demo to see how they perform in your room.

Thank you for the extra information!
 

Jeff

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NSA_watch_my_toilet said:
Did you already heard those two speakers ? Because the native advertising made by What Hifi is NOT how to choose decent speakers.

What do you mean by native advertisement?
 

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