AV Amp for MA RS8 Speakers

[Frank Harvey]

smmee: david i see the rotel gear is on your website have you heard then?? none for miles around cambridge way.

and again many thanks We took on Rotel and B&W earlier in the year, but we've held back on the Rotel stuff as we new there were some new models coming out, which are almost here. We'll be ordering it all together, hi-fi and AV.

I also know Rotel well, extremely well in fact, and have been dealing with them for almost 20 years. Rotel has a reputation for producing excellent quality products, particularly amplifiers, giving people a taste of what high end amplification is like for a fraction of the cost. A Rotel AV pre/power system will probably be the most music thing this side of the new Arcam AVR500. There are members on other forums who use Rotel amplification for speaker packages like KEF Reference, two manufacturers misinformedly "rumoured" to sound bright, and they're extremely happy with their systems. Many people use Rotel for their B&W 800 speaker systems too.

So once again, like the Pioneer, some may think it's bright, some may not, but either way, to ignore could be a mistake as it might be perfect for some people.

On a separate note, 'bright' and 'harsh' are two different things. A product can be bright without being offensive. When it becomes offensive, that's classed as harsh. I just thought that might be worth mentioning as many people tend to think they mean the same thing.

Regards,

David

 

[Frank Harvey]

JohnDuncan:Looks ok to me, but a) let's keep it clean gentlemen and b) I'm not Andrew...Cheers John, and thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi david once again many thanks for the reply.

with regaurds to bright or harsh

example I bought florence and the machine lungs and have only played it twice, it hurt my ears. at the week end im going to listern to it again and try to pin point what I mean (what i dont like) as im sure you already know some times its hard to put into words what oneone is hearing. be intrested to know when you recive the rotel kit.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Bright is when the treble is prominent, but not to the point where it's on the verge of giving you a headache. Sweet sounding speakers border on bright - because their upper HF is prominent and their lower HF (where the offensive treble is) is less prominent (recessed).

I had a customer come in once because he said his system was harsh. He brought in a few CD's as an example and to try out some alternative electronics and speakers. It turned out that the harshness was on the CD's themselves, but only in certain places of the music. Now you can buy a smoother system to tame these nasty ocassional bits, but then you end up with a smoother, duller sounding system for the rest of the time.

As an example, one of the CD's I use for testing how it sounds with harsh recordings, is the Red Hot Chili Peppers album, Blood Sugar Sex Magic. Give It Away is quite painful on most systems, but I have found some that made the track listenable at higher volumes, and also bring the bass line out more, which is an essential part of the track. The only problem is that these systems make the track sound dull and lifeless, lacking any sort of bite and energy. What I'm trying to say is, don't try and iron out the ocassional harsh bit of recordings as you'll end up with a system that doesn't inspire you.

 

[pete321]

I take your point about harshness being down to the recordings, but we all have those in our collection and want to be able to listen to them. My personal preference is for detail rather than warm and safe. Being a big Cyrus fan in my stereo days it's obvious where my sonic preferences lie. However, getting back to the RS8's, I auditioned them against PMC GB1i's using a Z7 in Pure Direct mode and whilst I preferred them without hesitation to the PMC's which sounded lifeless, they did come across as being a bit too clinical. I haven't heard them with the LX82, but my assumption would be (as a previous VSX-A5i owner) that the Z7 would have a more neutral tone than a Pioneer amp, therefore the Pioneer would excentuate that clinical sound still further. Obviously this can be controlled by artificail means on the amp, or with speaker cabling, etc.

With regard to recordings to test a system. I always like to use my Mobile Fidelity Nevermind CD by Nirvana. If a system can't cope, I've found this MOFI CD will show the problems. Also Radiohead's Fake Plastic Trees, with a nice clean, detailed system the start is spine tingling, but can it do justice later on in the track.

 

[Anonymous]

From what i gather so far in the thread i think David is contradicting statements.

This is simply because in one post and i quote" I agree the RS's would be too bright for the Pioneer, but not the RX's. Not that speaker brightness with the Pioneer is an issue anyway with it's X-Curve control"

The recommendation was for the RS series so why bring in RX series anyway.

Thirdly it was you David that is "generalising" which in fact is either here nor there.

I am not questioning your integrity but would appreciate if you can be consistent with the these recommendations.

With regards to the point you made about ATC; well i had the chance to purchase SCM40 which is being driven by a Yamaha AS2000 (100 watts) amplifier costing £1500 and am very happy with perfomance.

In this world we live we are all not equal so we ought live within our means which does not mean not enjoying the little we have.

David what recommendation will you make to a customer who walks into your shop with £2000 who wants to buy ATC SCM19 and am amplifier?????? would you sell a £500 amp to drive the ATCSCM 19 to him/her,would you make a sale to him/her???????

I will advise Smee to listen to both amplifiers and make that decision for himself after listening to thoughts,ideas and recommendations from forum members as it is he that will be living with it.

 

[Tom Moreno]

benharlley:I will advise Smee to listen to both amplifiers and make that decision for himself after listening to thoughts,ideas and recommendations from forum members as it is he that will be living with it.


That seemed a bit of a harsh post. I thought that this was exactly what David was suggesting. It was the others that seemed to come across with the "Yamaha is the only one for the job" stance while David was suggesting having a look at both amplifiers. It seems that everyone has gotten a bit too caught up in attacking his initial offering of the Pioneer as another option for consideration that they've forgotten that he mentioned the Yamaha as well.

Let's all take a deep breath and calm down.

 

[Frank Harvey]

benharlley: From what i gather so far in the thread i think David is contradicting statements. This is simply because in one post and i quote" I agree the RS's would be too bright for the Pioneer, but not the RX's. Not that speaker brightness with the Pioneer is an issue anyway with it's X-Curve control" Ok, maybe the word "too" was a little excessive. I'm not saying the RS won't be on the brighter side with the Pioneer, what I am trying to get across is that the Pioneer has room EQ like every other amp to counteract room issues, which will also include the speaker's tonal balance.

The recommendation was for the RS series so why bring in RX series anyway.If you're so good at reading, you'll notice that the RX's were mentioned to dispell the myth that Monitor Audio and Pioneer are a 'bad match' fullstop. This isn't the case.

Thirdly it was you David that is "generalising" which in fact is either here nor there.Please point out the first generalisation in this thread.

I am not questioning your integrity but would appreciate if you can be consistent with the these recommendations.Even if you think my recommendations are inconsistent, that doesn't stop you ringing me for advice on a regular basis does it?

With regards to the point you made about ATC; well i had the chance to purchase SCM40 which is being driven by a Yamaha AS2000 (100 watts) amplifier costing £1500 and am very happy with perfomance.I'be heard the AS2000 and it's a very good amplifier, and will probably do a fair job with the SCM40's.

David what recommendation will you make to a customer who walks into your shop with £2000 who wants to buy ATC SCM19 and am amplifier??????I'm sure if you put this 'test' to different dealers you'll get a few different answers. If the customer had a strict £2,000 budget, then I wouldn't recommend he bought the SCM19's, as there's just not enough budget left to get an amplifier suitable. I would recommend they go for the SCM11's with a Nait XS. Even the SCM11's you can hear how much the bass tightens up between a Nait 5i and a Nait XS. If I myself were buying SCM19's, I'd be looking at integrated amplifiers in the £2,000/2,500 price range as a starting point, and pre/powers like the Naim 152xs/155xs and ATC CA2/P1 combinations. That's when you'll hear a quality speaker REALLY sing. A speaker can only sound as good as the amplifier will let it, and if you tried the SCM19's (or any ATC speaker for that matter) with some different amps covering a wide price range, you'll soon see which amplifier exploit the speakers fully and which ones leave you questioning. I ran the same question past Kevin and he said exactly the same.

I will advise Smee to listen to both amplifiers and make that decision for himself after listening to thoughts,ideas and recommendations from forum members as it is he that will be living with it.As I have done.

 

[Anonymous]

I'be heard the AS2000 and it's a very good amplifier, and will probably do a fair job with the SCM40's.

David in your estimation i take it then that the Yamaha AS2000 is not fully(fair job) up to the task of the ATC as you put it in the post above.

Well thats very interesting.

With regards to advice as i stated in my post i clearly said i do not doubt your "integrity".

Enough said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Frank Harvey]

benharlley:David in your estimation i take it then that the Yamaha AS2000 is not fully(fair job) up to the task of the ATC as you put it in the post above.What I mean is, if you tried the AS2000 with some SCM40's, then replaced the AS2000 with an ATC SIA2-150, then you'll hear the sort of difference I'm talking about - although I'd recommend the CA2/P1 pre power to partner those.

 

[Anonymous]

As they say we agree to disagree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Consistency and integrity are vitally important for all with a commercial interest that post on forums.

I am concerned about this on a number of forum and dealers who post should remember that what they have posted can be searched/ found, and come back to haunt them.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Well I'm sure if I'm so inconsistent then the many happy customers I have from various forums will see through my dubious visage and avoid me then......it's just a shame that most of my forum customers are the sort that seek advice, buy, then get on and enjoy their purchase, rather than going back onto a forum and doing the group session thing. I've been forum'ing for about 5 years now for work and privately, and my recommendations and advice never been questioned like they have been by recent Musicraft customers. You carry on, I'm too busy to be worried about it.

 

[Anonymous]

You must be getting paranoid in your old age David.

All the best.

 

[Anonymous]

Well thanks again for everyones veiws

I am only gathering a short list together for audition (I will not be parting with my hard earned cash untill i have ruled out and herad all on that short list) and I am trying to get peoples different veiws good and bad, some will agree and some will not. and that is what makes researching these product so much fun.

 

[Frank Harvey]

crimsondonkey:

You must be getting paranoid in your old age David.

All the best.
Covering bases