Audiophile grade mains fuses

[Anonymous]

A little lesson....

Amplifier Design

The heart of any amplifier is the power supply unit which changes the mains voltage to voltages that the amplifier can use.

Most of the highest quality amplifiers use very large and heavy 50hz mains transformers. These along with rectifiers and reservoir capacitors go to make up the usual type of power supply. This style of PSU has been designed to absorb and store charge at a rate of 100 cycles per second.
Unfortunately the demands for reproducing most types of music are much greater (which most people don't grasp) and sometimes means that amplifiers are not good at delivering their energy at audio frequencies.

In order to cope with these musical demands amplifiers often use components that are unnecessarily large and this factor dictates the size and weight of it. The normal use of linear voltage regulators associated with this power supply makes the situation worse still.It requires the amp to dissipate much more power in the form of heat - the more power the amp has to dissipate as heat, the larger the heat sinks, the larger the design, the less compact the audio signal.
Thus the amplifier is bulky, heavy, sometimes slow to respond, generally inefficient, causes high mains power distortion, can cause electrical and acoustic noise and requires a relatively long and exposed audio path.

Now achieving a solid and stable Mains supply with no contamination and a unrestricted draw means that Audio frequencies demands made can be followed better. Where this is evident is in the capacitance left in the reservoir capacitors in periods of high demand whilst following the current demands made with the music being played.

What is measurable is the recharge rate on the reservoir capacitors which has a noticable effect on the music.

Now I'm going back to my wine and watching a film.

 

[PJPro]

I can feel the love in this thread.

 

[Anonymous]

Tear Drop:Cyril Mason:Tear Drop:aliEnRIK:
I see you like to avoid most questions Cyril

Id say that still points to you being quite a good electrician (possibly) but having very little knowledge on actual hifi and you like to sit at home THINKING you know it all when in fact you know so very little.............

Cyril's general ignorance is totally unsurprising. In my experience most electricians/electrical engineers/physicists etc etc (or those who claim or allude to having some knowledge in these fields) have very little understanding of how their discipline actually relates to real music reproduction. That is in actual fact a very rare talent which I have only come across a couple of times. Cyril is clearly not one of those people. As such I think his comments are best either i) ignored, or ii) seen as a source of some mild amusement. Don't let him get your backs up because he is more in the dark than he will ever know.

Ad hominem, the sure sign of a lost argument.

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to precisely how a mains lead or a fuse can affect the sound of reproduction.

I'll give you a clue, they don't.

You would need to have a clue before you gave me one Cyril, that would be logical...

...and how was my argument ad hominem? I don't remember ever discussing 'audiophile grade mains fuses' on any forum, ever, so how can I lose an argument I have never entered into? Please try harder Mr. Mason, it gets funnier as you do.

You attacked me rather than my points. That's an ad hominem attack and that's why you lose the argument. It also reveals that you can't counter what I say with a reasoned response.

It's sad rather than funny.

If you can, please enlighten everyone with your explanation of how a mains lead or an "audiophile" fuse can change the quality of sound reproduction.

 

[Anonymous]

aliEnRIK:

So your blessed with NO rfi in your mains supply?

As i said.....your a JOKE

I definitely don't have any RFI at the absurdly high levels they tested at or anywhere near. No nearby transmitters you see.. There might be a few transient one off background pops and clicks but they don't affect the sound quality overall.

Anyway, you're changing the subject again. We were talking about sound quality, not background interference. Got any papers on that?

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

I am surprised the war has been allowed to wage so long.Egos at 10 virtual yards .Give it a rest,there is no reconciliation here .Agree to disagree and give all of us something positive to read.

 

[Anonymous]

A little lesson....

Amplifier Design

The heart of any amplifier is the power supply unit which changes the mains voltage to voltages that the amplifier can use.

Most of the highest quality amplifiers use very large and heavy 50hz mains transformers. These along with rectifiers and reservoir capacitors go to make up the usual type of power supply. This style of PSU has been designed to absorb and store charge at a rate of 100 cycles per second.
Unfortunately the demands for reproducing most types of music are much greater (which most people don't grasp) and sometimes means that amplifiers are not good at delivering their energy at audio frequencies.

In order to cope with these musical demands amplifiers often use components that are unnecessarily large and this factor dictates the size and weight of it.

What is the rectification called? What does "components that are unnecessarily large" mean? Don't you want high power? If you do, you need a big transformer. What other components do you consider to be unnecessarily large?

The normal use of linear voltage regulators associated with this power supply makes the situation worse still.It requires the amp to dissipate much more power in the form of heat - the more power the amp has to dissipate as heat, the larger the heat sinks, the larger the design, the less compact the audio signal.


What do you mean by "the less compact the audio signal"? Usually the supply on the output stages is unregulated, so a large enough transformer is a must if the amplifier is to achieve its full power output.

Thus the amplifier is bulky, heavy, sometimes slow to respond, generally inefficient, causes high mains power distortion, can cause electrical and acoustic noise and requires a relatively long and exposed audio path.

How can an amplifier possibly cause "high mains power distortion"? What is that, did you dream it up ? If you're worried about efficiency wouldn't an amplifier with class A biasing be one to avoid? What is a "long and exposed audio path"?

Now achieving a solid and stable Mains supply with no contamination and a unrestricted draw means that Audio frequencies demands made can be followed better.

My mains sags at the box, so there is no such thing as "unrestricted draw" It also means you have to have the perfect transformer to measure the benefit, which so far hasn't been invented. If it was a problem then the cure is simple, regulate the entire supply. Yet manufacturers don't bother.

Where this is evident is in the capacitance left in the reservoir capacitors in periods of high demand whilst following the current demands made with the music being played.

What is measurable is the recharge rate on the reservoir capacitors which has a noticable effect on the music.

Or, IOW, If the transformer regulates poorly the supply will sag under load and that means it will distort sooner. What does any of your post have to do with fuses and mains leads?

 

[Anonymous]

Ravey Gravey Davy:I am surprised the war has been allowed to wage so long.Egos at 10 virtual yards .Give it a rest,there is no reconciliation here .Agree to disagree and give all of us something positive to read.

You could always post an opinion on the matter being discussed.

 

[Anonymous]

What are Trevor's engineering credentials?

Which university did he attend, and which amplifiers did he design?

 

[aliEnRIK]

Cyril Mason:aliEnRIK:

So your blessed with NO rfi in your mains supply?

As i said.....your a JOKE

I definitely don't have any RFI at the absurdly high levels they tested at or anywhere near. No nearby transmitters you see.. There might be a few transient one off background pops and clicks but they don't affect the sound quality overall.

How have you measured your RFI? How do you KNOW what you DO have doesnt effect the sound quality?

Show ME papers to back this up.......

 

[simonlewis]

Just curious what's RFI & how do you check it, do you need some special equipment.

 

[aliEnRIK]

slewis:Just curious what's RFI & how do you check it, do you need some special equipment.

Radio Frequency Interference. It can be measured but most people dont have sensitive enough equipment to measure what Russ Andrews did in his experiments (Or rather Bens experiments for Russ). Some electricians also use them but theyre nowhere NEAR as sensitive as the ones used in the research papers

 

[simonlewis]

Just had a look on wikipedia for RFI, it stands for Radio Frequency Interference.

Except for aliEnRIK which stands for Request For Infomation - refering to cyril.

Still not quite how to check for it though.

 

[simonlewis]

Thanx for the prompt reply aliEnRIK.

 

[True Blue]

Eddie Pound:
What are Trevor's engineering credentials?

Which university did he attend, and which amplifiers did he design?

I do not know his credentials or if he attended university. What I do know is that Trev, igves us HIS opinion on various upgrades that he has made and feels that they have made a difference. He is merely trying to share a knowledge gained from experience. I also know that he does not dismiss others ideas "on the face of it", so therefore I respect his viewpoint.

On the other hand there are those on the forum who TELL others they cannot be hearing things and do not back this up with ANY evidence and will not get involved in ANY direct questioning, merely posting childish remarks and then when the going gets tough start on another thread.

Cyril, you appear to have been active on this thread AFTER I posted on another thread in which I have asked two straight questions from you.

1. you say you work for a manufacturer, which one?

2. What position do you hold?

Cyril,

Trevor has never stated to be an expert and has always stated that he does his upgrades for the love of his music. But at least he does not hide behind veiled responses, so I (as I expect many) await your responses

 

[Anonymous]

I am just curious to as whether Trevor is a qualified electrician, a qualified electronic engineer, or similar.

I think that it is relevant when advising on mains electricity, as his "opinions" are sometimes presented and fact, and innocent WHF members may believe him and/or try his suggestions.

It all sounds like pseudo-science to me.

 

[Anonymous]

True Blue:
Trevor has never stated to be an expert and has always stated that he does his upgrades for the love of his music.

So what did he mean by "A little lesson"?

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

Cyril Mason:

Ravey Gravey Davy:I am surprised the war has been allowed to wage so long.Egos at 10 virtual yards .Give it a rest,there is no reconciliation here .Agree to disagree and give all of us something positive to read.

You could always post an opinion on the matter being discussed.

Why- it is quite clear from this thread that opinions do not count -only "facts" as each individual perceives them.There is also very little discussion.

My contribution is no fuse, no sound. QED

Otherwise I'll give it a miss thanks. Troll on.

 

[Anonymous]

John Franks, Chord's founder and chief designer was my point of reference in writing my last post. So the technical input was his, not mine.
It is an enjoyable hobby for me, and once I have improved my system as much as reasonably possible I will leave it be and enjoy it for many years.
University, electrician etc. Why?
Do I need to be one to know what I'm talking about, I don't think so.

One of my best friends is a World authority on Fibre Optics research and development, holding the Chair in a leading University, (has no interest in Hi-Fi) have picked Russ Andrews brains many times, along with many others in the community over the years.
Quite simply if I don't know something, I know a man who does!

My views held are the result of research and practical evaluation. Those who hold a PHD will understand exactly what I mean.
If I find benefit in something I use it, if not I don't.
That is not as easy as it sounds, when starting to work/modify a piece of equipment I research it, gain info of others who have done work. It is the case of knowing not what to do
as much as what to do.
It is sad that there is not a healthy discussion and contribution from all posters.
When the question is asked, what did you bring to the party?
Some will be found wanting, and should be embarrassed.

 

[matengawhat]

igglebert:No but I was going to order a pack of Russ Andrews 13 amp silver fuses next month to see whether they boost my mains cable. Who knows, all good fun. I know Cyril, it won't make any difference but I'm going to do it anyway

only way to know for sure is to buy some - placed an order for 10 today to repalce all the fuses in my merlins mains leads and blocks will try on both hi fi set up and home cinema set up and let you know my thoughts.

 

[Anonymous]

trevor79:John Franks, Chord's founder and chief designer was my point of reference in writing my last post.

Some will be found wanting, and should be embarrassed.

Yes you should. If you are going to plagiarise, it's wise to make sure the person you're borrowing from knows what they're talking about.

 

[Anonymous]

trevor79:

Have all my plugs hard wired so don't need them, use circuit breakers instead.

i'd always been under the impression that fuses and RCD's are complementary. A fuse protects against current overload e.g. a short circuit in the device; whilst an RCD protects against loss of current to an external system e.g. a person electrocuting themselves.

as an example, if you used an electric hedgetrimmer and cut the cord which then touched you as it fell to the ground, the fuse would be fine, but the RCD would trip.

so i'm not convinced you're being safe there trevor.

 

[Anonymous]

Ravey Gravey Davy:Cyril Mason:

Ravey Gravey Davy:I am surprised the war has been allowed to wage so long.Egos at 10 virtual yards .Give it a rest,there is no reconciliation here .Agree to disagree and give all of us something positive to read.

You could always post an opinion on the matter being discussed.

Why- it is quite clear from this thread that opinions do not count -only "facts" as each individual perceives them.There is also very little discussion.

My contribution is no fuse, no sound. QED

Your contribution is very sound. Would you say it's a fact or merely your opinion?

 

[Andrew Everard]

Cyril Mason:Yes you should. If you are going to plagiarise, it's wise to make sure the person you're borrowing from knows what they're talking about.

Please stop this continual abuse of forum members and libellous accusations, as both are against house rules.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, I see your point.

However what is a fuse in the plug protecting?
Only the plug lead, this needs to be rated at ampage higher than the RCD.

Why does the UK now use them (they didn't used to) whilst other countries do not?
Radial spurs as against Ring circuits.

It is because of the free flow of current (transiant and stable) that RCD's help.
My power supply is on its own dedicated spur and all the wiring is over specified, no danger at all. Put in by a qualified electrician, which is what I would always advise people to do.

Thanks for your concern

 

[Anonymous]

RCD: Residual current device. This is a sensitive switching device that trips a circuit when an earth fault is detected. (Electrical Safey Council)

RCB: Red Carnation Ball; A year end celebration of a Chapters accomplishments, normally held at the end of March. ...
www.tke-yh.com/rush_glossary.php