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Audio amplifier vs Av amplifier

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macdiddy

Well-known member
Sep 3, 2010
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These pieces of sh** like the one DougK recommends are the reason why many people think that home cinema setups are no good with music but done with proper equipment a home cinema can be just as good with both films and music.

As I said when you posted a similar thread in the Home Cinema section of this forum, just make sure that you buy an A/V amp with pre-outs on all channels, then you can still use your Yamaha.

*music2*

ps. the specs for the piece of sh** DougK highlights quotes that it has a total power output of 1200 watts, even if it could manage that amount of power (which I very much doubt) then it would most likely explode.
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
309
85
10,970
macdiddy said:
These pieces of sh** like the one DougK recommends are the reason why many people think that home cinema setups are no good with music but done with proper equipment a home cinema can be just as good with both films and music.

As I said when you posted a similar thread in the Home Cinema section of this forum, just make sure that you buy an A/V amp with pre-outs on all channels, then you can still use your Yamaha.

*music2*

ps. the specs for the piece of sh** DougK highlights quotes that it has a total power output of 1200 watts, even if it could manage that amount of power (which I very much doubt) then it would most likely explode.
do not worry I will buy something good now I know I've got the proper connection on my A-S2100

i will be buying a Yamaha Av amplifier a 2016 model that has the aluminum front probably a 660 or a 880 then it gives me a bit of room if I want to add stuff in the future .
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
1
0
Blacksabbath25 said:
macdiddy said:
These pieces of sh** like the one DougK recommends are the reason why many people think that home cinema setups are no good with music but done with proper equipment a home cinema can be just as good with both films and music.

As I said when you posted a similar thread in the Home Cinema section of this forum, just make sure that you buy an A/V amp with pre-outs on all channels, then you can still use your Yamaha.

*music2*

ps. the specs for the piece of sh** DougK highlights quotes that it has a total power output of 1200 watts, even if it could manage that amount of power (which I very much doubt) then it would most likely explode.
do not worry I will buy something good now I know I've got the proper connection on my A-S2100

i will be buying a Yamaha Av amplifier a 2016 model that has the aluminum front probably a 660 or a 880 then it gives me a bit of room if I want to add stuff in the future .
2 months ago i sold my yamaha rx3050
You missed out on a bargin
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
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insider9 said:
Were you to go AV route I'd suggest looking at Arcam range with Dirac Live built in.
This is the av pre amp i like

https://emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/xmc-1
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
377
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There is 2 good shouts there.

Emotiva or even the cheapest current arcam has dirac. Might be more than your looking to spend but your also getting more than you set out to
 

DougK

Well-known member
Dec 8, 2013
1,049
695
20,070
macdiddy said:
These pieces of sh** like the one DougK recommends are the reason why many people think that home cinema setups are no good with music but done with proper equipment a home cinema can be just as good with both films and music.

As I said when you posted a similar thread in the Home Cinema section of this forum, just make sure that you buy an A/V amp with pre-outs on all channels, then you can still use your Yamaha.

*music2*

ps. the specs for the piece of sh** DougK highlights quotes that it has a total power output of 1200 watts, even if it could manage that amount of power (which I very much doubt) then it would most likely explode.
It was not a recommendation, more of a suggestion as I do not know what Sabbath currently has regarding a surround sound set-up.

Music is my passion, this is where my hard-earned cash has gone, a dedicated music-only system. If I want to see/hear a film as it should be seen/heard then I go to the b****y cinema like any other normal person would. I have no wish to alienate my neighbours with infernal house-shaking film soundtracks maximised by some stupidly £xpensive cinema system. To this end I quite like my cheap Panasonic sh**, it suits my needs.

One shoe does not fit all.
 

Vladimir

New member
Dec 26, 2013
220
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Black is going with matching Yamaha and Dalis. The decision has been made. His question was if it is doable or not.
 

macdiddy

Well-known member
Sep 3, 2010
87
3
18,545
with a "suggestion" that contributed nothing to the original question you would know that Sabbath had an existing two channel amp that he liked and wondered if he could add some sort of surround setup, he asked and was told that his amp had the right connections and so could buy a amp to use when he wanted to watch a film but able to be turned off when he just wanted to use his front two speakers for music.

You then go on to say that everyone should go to the cinema to watch films, well I'm sorry but not all of us wish to watch a film in the company of a group of people that eat noisily, drink, cough, shout out stupid things, laugh at the wrong time and generally act like complete tw**s when I've paid £10 (this may be more now its been so long since I went to the cinema) or more to watch the film, no thanks I'll wait till it comes out on blu-ray and watch it on my own system, any noise I make will be my own, done properly many home cinemas will out perform a local cinema in terms of picture and sound quality, try googleling "home cinema installs" to find out why.

*blum3*

ps. by the way the idea of watching a film with a "house shaking" soundtrack is so that when your neighbours start knocking on the wall your too busy enjoying the experience to hear them.
 

Vladimir

New member
Dec 26, 2013
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I'd rather spend that money at Wolford and La Perla. But I see your point regarding room shaking bass. I was 12 once too.
 

newlash09

Well-known member
Aug 28, 2015
219
45
10,820
Usually when one starts planning a home theatre setup. The usual things considered are room size and speaker placement for optimum sorround field. Any 5 modest speakers of the same make and model when placed optimally will sound wonderful for home theatre. You might want to use your large speakers for home theatre as well. But apart from the connections on the Yamaha amp, I would also think about room size and speaker placement before taking the plunge.
 

newlash09

Well-known member
Aug 28, 2015
219
45
10,820
And as ellisdj rightly said, IAM yet to visit a theatre where every speaker has been positioned to optimise sound at my pre booked seating position. It just can't happen. Where as in a home theatre, my central seating position is where everything is optimised for. I have seen the same movie in both a theatre and my living room. And I prefer my HT setup by a very large margin. And that is saying something.

I still visit the theatre for the thrill of watching a well reviewed new release, and for the social vibe in being part of a audience, and other family reasons. But superior sound quality is certainly​ not one of them.
 

Leeps

New member
Dec 10, 2012
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Vladimir said:
Waste of time, money and space just to watch Hollywood garbage. I'd rather go out to the cinema to watch a movie properly. For casual watching a phone/tablet/laptop is good enough.

Buy your wife jewelry instead.
Why would you choose to watch a film you don't like? Funny that. I tend to pick films I think I'd enjoy. There are alternatives to Hollywood garbage.

FWIW, my very modestly priced home AV set-up sounds infinitely better than any experience I've had at a cinema. Personally I find the cinema just plays super-loud, but lacks quality in steering effects or ambience. The space is just too big and too dependent on where you happen to be sat. In my home system, I can hear so much more detail, the speech is far less muffled than the cinema and it's more dramatic...just better all round.

I wished for moments of Interstellar that I could have turned the volume down to protect my hearing, but at the cinema, no can do.

And it's not all about the usual Hollywood brainless fare. IMO there has been quite a renaissance of original films of late. Sure, there's still plenty of tripe if you want it, but I've been really impressed with the likes of Arrival, A United Kingdom, Bridge of Spies, The Martian, Woman in Gold.

Fact is that yes, some integrated amps may sound 15% superior than a good AV receiver at 2-channel content, but playing multi-channel content a well set-up AV receiver is 80% better than a 2-channel amp. I've owned both, so IMO as a music lover and someone who appreciates a well made film too, if I want one box that does it all, it's going to be an AV receiver. My old stereo amp was excellent at music, but I was never happy with dialogue playing movies. I have much more tweakability now. That's not to say that I won't add an integrated or power amp later.
 

drummerman

New member
Jan 18, 2008
540
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Personally I've never seen the point of home cinema unless you have a dedicated room with space to spare.

I once dabbled with it when I bought a Kuro/Pioneer. Soon gave up with it all as it was sxxxe and to big, in that order.

I have to say that many AV set ups look ugly to me, the odd exception where things are tastefully done in big spaces.

For a TV 2 speakers are plenty for me. I can't even remember the last time I've linked TV sound through my hifi. Laptop and headphones.

As to using AV receivers purely for hifi, why not. The better ones have very good specs and facilities, some of which far exceed what the typical hair shirt hifi product can offer. As usual the only problem is that most are super ugly. Zilch money gets spent on design usually. Doesn't matter if you can hide it away though.

Again, for most males in this hobby it's something they want to show off though.
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
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What I was eluding to is you can get just as much satisfaction from your AV system as your HiFi system if you give it the same attention. Its nice to be able to blow hot and cold towards movies and music when it suits you, why should your AV not be as good as your hifi when you think about it?

Lets not forget a lot of modern films are experience based films - they are massively enjoyable when they are an Experience to watch and I would say still enjoyable when just watched on a TV through 2 speakers of course - but its not the same experience watching it like that.

Its up to each individual what they do obviously but I dont think we should "cheapen" the home cinema experience as being lesser than music / hifi because its not.

I dont blame Sabbath for trying to have a system do both very well.
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
309
85
10,970
I have had a home cinema before but had to sell it before my little one came along as I needed the money to pay for all of the things you need for a baby .

anyway I had the Arcam Av 88 + 7 channel power amp the P7 which when I brought it cost me £6500 and then I had the Denon DVD player that cost £2000 , rel sub £800 , and a speaker package that set me back £3000 so I know what a good home cinema sounds like and it's better then any cinema .

but the trouble with home cinema it can get very expensive to do things right but basically I do not want to go down that road anymore spending the silly money I spent years ago .

if I could buy a very well respected Av amplifier for good money that will do 5.1 I will be happy as long as the amplifier as the pre-outs to hook up with my 2 channel .

I will be using my big Dali floor standing speakers for the L+R I just need to buy the center , backs , sub , Av amplifier .
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
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On ebay there are dali on wall speakers and lcrs being sold cheaper that would probably do you Sabbath for speakers.

Have you seen them?
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
309
85
10,970
ellisdj said:
On ebay there are dali on wall speakers and lcrs being sold cheaper that would probably do you Sabbath for speakers.

Have you seen them?
no thanks for that as they are expensive but as you can see they take no room up
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
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I dont know how your setup and what space you have where but your centre speaker is very important.

So 1 Opticon LCR for a Centre channel would be a worthwhile investment at £460.

Then you can pick and choose the rears - better if they match, not the end of the world if they dont but the centre speaker is important. Tonal Matching front sound stage then

Better to spend a bit more on that now - than not be happy with the one your buy over the long haul and you end up repalcing it costing you more.
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
309
85
10,970
ellisdj said:
I dont know how your setup and what space you have where but your centre speaker is very important.

So 1 Opticon LCR for a Centre channel would be a worthwhile investment at £460.

Then you can pick and choose the rears - better if they match, not the end of the world if they dont but the centre speaker is important. Tonal Matching front sound stage then

Better to spend a bit more on that now - than not be happy with the one your buy over the long haul and you end up repalcing it costing you more.
yes that's what I was going to do use a opticon LCR for a center as you can take the hybrid driver out and turn it so it's a center speaker then .

dali does do a bigger center but it's just to big to mount on the wall I did look at them LCRs on eBay that's £460 each ones in ash and the other one is in white but the trouble is my L+Rs are in walnut which is a ******
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
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I still think it seems a good idea for a centre speaker for you. You will get some technical benefits from wall mounting for bass response to help it blend with the bigger L&R

That way you dont have another big speaker in between your main L&R like in most setups thats a distraction really for when listening to music - priority 1

As its wall mounted will you even see the finish - could you not get away with those colours?
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
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From practical point of view where would you put the new amp if it was an addition and not replacement? You just had a lovely rack built for your setup that would probably need an extra shelf added...
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
309
85
10,970
insider9 said:
From practical point of view where would you put the new amp if it was an addition and not replacement? You just had a lovely rack built for your setup that would probably need an extra shelf added...
I have the room on the rack it will go underneath my A-S 2100 on the shelf below and because I will not be using the music cast pre the Yamaha Av will have MusicCast built in
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
309
85
10,970
ellisdj said:
I still think it seems a good idea for a centre speaker for you. You will get some technical benefits from wall mounting for bass response to help it blend with the bigger L&R

That way you dont have another big speaker in between your main L&R like in most setups thats a distraction really for when listening to music - priority 1

As its wall mounted will you even see the finish - could you not get away with those colours?
now I think about it no not really
 

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