Are all preouts the same?

[muljao]

Bit of a convoluted question, but if i plugged the analogue output of say a CD player into the cd input of a very high spec amplifier and took a feed from the preouts, would it be the same as if i did the same with a budget av receiver.

I understand that if I use the DAC or anything else in the receivers that they come into play, but if just analogue in, preout, is it just a volume potentiometer in the mix. Thanks

 

[Vladimir]

Think of the hifi system hierarchy just like sound engineers do. It's a chain of GAIN STAGES, the idea being making the source small power signal into one large enough to push speaker membranes.
Inside the CD there are stages of applying gain, with eventually max of 2.0V coming out. This signal goes to a preamplifier that further increases it and sends it to the power amplifier via pre-out sockets. Then the power amp as the final gain stage increases the signal to the speakers.
The preamp is needed to serve as a hub for different sources, volume control, equalization etc. This would be impractical to do in the power amp since high current and voltages are at work.
So the signal coming out of your preamp pre-outs is amplified and should only be connected to the power amp. If you want to take source level signal, you use the rec-out socket. If you plug your CDP to a preamp and take signal from the rec-out, it will be the same gain level as if you took it straight from the CDP. But if you take signal from the pre-out, it will be too powerful for anything except a power amp.
Best write up I can do on my phone.

 

[muljao]

Thanks, that's the very technical side sorted.

Does this mean if i want to use a set of active speakers, using an av receiver as a preamp control for my sources, that a more expensive one is better than a cheaper one?

Preamps are expensive, i can get a second hand av receiver with preout inexpensive

 

[Vladimir]

Thanks, that's the very technical side sorted.

Does this mean if i want to use a set of active speakers, using an av receiver as a preamp control for my sources, that a more expensive one is better than a cheaper one?

Preamps are expensive, i can get a second hand av receiver with preout inexpensive

For digital sources the differences in sound quality will be minute. In the analogue domain, such as turntable, it's best to invest in a higher quality dedicated pre.

 

[muljao]

Thanks, that's the very technical side sorted.

Does this mean if i want to use a set of active speakers, using an av receiver as a preamp control for my sources, that a more expensive one is better than a cheaper one?

Preamps are expensive, i can get a second hand av receiver with preout inexpensive

For digital sources the differences in sound quality will be minute. In the analogue domain, such as turntable, it's best to invest in a higher quality dedicated pre.

Thanks Vladimir. Sorry to keep asking questions.What do you think about my example of the analog from a cd player into the cd input of a cheaper or more expensive av, using preout to active speakers, would it matter here?

 

[muljao]

Thanks both for answers, was considering buying a cheap av receiver for some actives. I may just buy a dedicated preamp at some stage. Its for a room I intend to set up, which wont be done today or tomorrow, so thought about buying few bits on the cheap and having them when the time comes

 

[MajorFubar]

The answer to your question is 'it depends', largely on how much circuitry there is between the line input and the pre-out.

Years ago Rotel sold what was IMO a scandalously expensive so-called 'control amplifier' (RCH-10) which was basically a set of line inputs fed to a source selector and a volume pot. It was on sale for a stupidly high price to the rich/gullible who didn't realise (or maybe didn't care) they could build the same thing for about £10 using readily-available components at Maplins. However on the plus side, because there was nothing in the signal chain other than the source selector and the volume pot, you could easily argue that its affect on the sound quality of the incoming sources was knocking on the door of nothing.

Modern amps, especially amps with digital controls, are far more complicated, with potentially more circuitry in the path between line-in and pre-out. Vlad is spot on with regards to vinyl, the amps with the best phono stages probably don't come cheap, but with line level sources, it's all about the quality and/or complexity of the internal circuitry. And I'm not convinced there's definitely a link between price and performance, seeing it's still very possible to build your own passive 'control amplifier' on the cheap consisting of just a stereo pot, RCA sockets and a source selector, which will be as acoustically transparent as anything available.

 

[MajorFubar]

If you only intend to attach modern digital line-level sources to active speakers, there's probably nothing to be gained from buying a pre-amp. CD, DVD and outboard DACs output at 2V which is high enough to feed the speakers directly without further amplification. If you only intend to connect one analogue source you need only a passive monitor controller to attenuate the output from your source to the speakers.

 

[muljao]

Thanks Major.

My intention was to basically run a full system at some point. I was going to use an av receiver to put the analog output from a TV, a cd player and a streamer to analogue ins on an avr and just use it's preout to the active ones.

I've changed my mind, to many uncertainties. Lol treat myself to a headphone amp DAC with preamp at some stage, this will do the job i need

 

[luckylion100]

of an Oppo? ;-)

My advice would be to save, do the job completely to your satisfaction if possible. Don't flaff about with cheap AV receivers. This curiosiity/experimentation and desire to upgrade is so difficult to shake off and exists in most of us.

If I'd followed the AVI way of doing things I'd have connected an mini mac and been done with it! Since I got my speakers I've added subs, the Oppo and now Minidsp. Actually thinking back since I had my (now departed) Yamaha WXC-50 preamp/streamer/dac mini marvel I've hardly touched my vinyl, even new purchases have remained unopened. So I've stopped buying vinyl for now and saved and spent on other toys.

And sorry I didn't mean to hijack your thread but I feel this is as much about all pre-amps being the same as it is the need within (most of us) to upgrade. I've ordered my Raspberry pi 3 to hopefully turn it into the the streamer I so miss. A cheap but hopefully nice litte project. the upgrade/curiosity bug is still strong here. ;-)

 

[muljao]

of an Oppo? ;-)

My advice would be to save, do the job completely to your satisfaction if possible. Don't flaff about with cheap AV receivers. This curiosiity/experimentation and desire to upgrade is so difficult to shake off and exists in most of us.

If I'd followed the AVI way of doing things I'd have connected an mini mac and been done with it!  Since I got my speakers I've added subs, the Oppo and now Minidsp. Actually thinking back since I had my (now departed) Yamaha WXC-50 preamp/streamer/dac mini marvel I've hardly touched my vinyl, even new purchases have remained unopened. So I've stopped buying vinyl for now and saved and spent on other toys.

And sorry I didn't mean to hijack your thread but I feel this is as much about all pre-amps being the same as it is the need within (most of us) to upgrade. I've ordered my Raspberry pi 3 to hopefully turn it into the the streamer I so miss.  A cheap but hopefully nice litte project. the upgrade/curiosity bug is still strong here. ;-)

On the contrary luckylion100 sometimes a thread hijack is a good thing.

Yes I'd like the oppo. In reality it won't happen any time soon. I'm enquiring about stuff i don't need but do want. I am going to probably get a headphone amp DAC/ preamp as my next purchase. It won't be as fancy as the oppo. Maybe a Emotiva stealth DAC 1. This will do everything i want without the faffing around.

Enjoy the raspberry pi experience

 

[luckylion100]

the Emotiva Stealth in another thread, perhaps speaking to yourself. I reckon that's a decent bit of kit. I love the looks too, name is very fitting, obviously.

Tbh, I previously had my heart set on the Mytek Brooklyn but at the time is was a little bit of out of reach pricewise. So the Oppo was a little bit of a compromise so the excitement I should have experienced was somewhat lacking. It's always about compromise I suppose, in HiFi and out there in the real world.

 

[luckylion100]

of an Oppo? ;-)

My advice would be to save, do the job completely to your satisfaction if possible. Don't flaff about with cheap AV receivers. This curiosiity/experimentation and desire to upgrade is so difficult to shake off and exists in most of us.

If I'd followed the AVI way of doing things I'd have connected an mini mac and been done with it! Since I got my speakers I've added subs, the Oppo and now Minidsp. Actually thinking back since I had my (now departed) Yamaha WXC-50 preamp/streamer/dac mini marvel I've hardly touched my vinyl, even new purchases have remained unopened. So I've stopped buying vinyl for now and saved and spent on other toys.

And sorry I didn't mean to hijack your thread but I feel this is as much about all pre-amps being the same as it is the need within (most of us) to upgrade. I've ordered my Raspberry pi 3 to hopefully turn it into the the streamer I so miss. A cheap but hopefully nice litte project. the upgrade/curiosity bug is still strong here. ;-)

On the contrary luckylion100 sometimes a thread hijack is a good thing.

Yes I'd like the oppo. In reality it won't happen any time soon. I'm enquiring about stuff i don't need but do want. I am going to probably get a headphone amp DAC/ preamp as my next purchase. It won't be as fancy as the oppo. Maybe a Emotiva stealth DAC 1. This will do everything i want without the faffing around.

Enjoy the raspberry pi experience

May be of interest...

http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/dac/emotiva-stealth-dac/

 

[muljao]

To much temptation