steve_1979
Well-known member
Richard Allen said:
You could make a couple of template emails which would save you time replying to people as you would only need to change the the name and date on the emails without having to rewrite the whole thing every time.
I will give you some sample templates ...
Template 1 - Dear robinkidderminster. Thanks for everything. Please accept a pair of my best speakers to enjoy free of gratis. Pop in anytime to collect. Cheers.
Template 2 - Dear customer. Sorry yr order will be delayed an extra day since I have to make an extra pair for robinkidderminster.
Template 1 - Dear robinkidderminster. Thanks for everything. Please accept a pair of my best speakers to enjoy free of gratis. Pop in anytime to collect. Cheers.
Template 2 - Dear customer. Sorry yr order will be delayed an extra day since I have to make an extra pair for robinkidderminster.
plastic penguin said:
Like I said in earlier post, 6 pairs went out to three retailers 5 months ago. Sales? 1 pair. Re-orders NIL!!!!.
I think that proves that the retail issue is a complete and utter waste of time. To get any throughput I would need around 350 retailers in order for 20 to get proactive and support the product. And they wonder why people don't go there.
Nuff sed PP???.
Al ears
Well-known member
Richard Allen said:
You're up early Richard.
Do these retailers add a significant mark-up then? Is that why they are not selling?
Surely if you have people waiting months still for their speakers then those are the orders you should attempt to fill rather than firing off speakers to retailers.
Or am I missing the point somewhere along the line?
Al ears said:
It's because of the retailers that EB came to be in the first place. Some of them ( not all ) want robdog margins, don't know what colours they want and then order one pair, blutac them to a pair of stands and leave them to gather dust in the corner. Insane!!!. A waste of my time, their time and money so my partner ( now deceased ) said when I brought the speakers back to the works "Sod em!!. cut the price in half and put them on the net!!" So I did. The rest you know.
By firing speakers off to retailers I proved my dead partner's still right.
basshound
Well-known member
I find this insight into the other side of the business (as opposed to being a consumer) fasinating. Sounds like you`ve been through a lot of trials & tribulations but are still there putting out a quality product. Wonder if the magazine would be interested in doing a regular feature profiling small companies like yours and the process that has to be gone through to produce speakers,amps or whatever.
Do you keep a blog ? Would be very interesting to read a typical (or atypical) account of say a month in the life of EB/Arcaydis, I know, I know, you have`nt got the time.................
Do you keep a blog ? Would be very interesting to read a typical (or atypical) account of say a month in the life of EB/Arcaydis, I know, I know, you have`nt got the time.................
basshound said:I find this insight into the other side of the business (as opposed to being a consumer) fasinating. Sounds like you`ve been through a lot of trials & tribulations but are still there putting out a quality product. Wonder if the magazine would be interested in doing a regular feature profiling small companies like yours and the process that has to be gone through to produce speakers,amps or whatever.
Do you keep a blog ? Would be very interesting to read a typical (or atypical) account of say a month in the life of EB/Arcaydis, I know, I know, you have`nt got the time.................
Basshound. You wouldn't believe the amount of effort that goes into building a pair of handbuilt loudspeakers. Coil matching and the like. The design process is the greatest bit although I haven't designed a new one for over a year now. When I get time I will finish the EB4 Aperiodic floorstander but pressures of EB1 etc take all my time at the moment.
Richard Allen said:basshound said:I find this insight into the other side of the business (as opposed to being a consumer) fasinating. Sounds like you`ve been through a lot of trials & tribulations but are still there putting out a quality product. Wonder if the magazine would be interested in doing a regular feature profiling small companies like yours and the process that has to be gone through to produce speakers,amps or whatever.
Do you keep a blog ? Would be very interesting to read a typical (or atypical) account of say a month in the life of EB/Arcaydis, I know, I know, you have`nt got the time.................
Basshound. You wouldn't believe the amount of effort that goes into building a pair of handbuilt loudspeakers. Coil matching and the like. The design process is the greatest bit although I haven't designed a new one for over a year now. When I get time I will finish the EB4 Aperiodic floorstander but pressures of EB1 etc take all my time at the moment. The nearest I've got is re-voicing the Roth Oli range of speakers at their request which, to be honest, was probably more difficult working with an already built unit as opposed to a clean sheet of paper. The RA series are stunning though even if I do say so myself. I have some quite emotional tracks that I use for ambient content and the RA3 actually reduced me to tears, it was that engaging. Subtle.
Hi Bigboss / Penguin,
Please note that Roth Audio loudspeakers and Roth Audio's distribution policy has nothing to do with Mr. Allen's strategy for Arcaydis whatsoever.
Mr. Allen has contributed to the design of our new range of loudspeakers, but this is all.
This thread seems to be in danger of confusing two entirely separate brands, companies and marketing philosophies, merely because of the manner in which Mr. Allen has engaged with this forum.
We believe that selling and marketing our products through authorised retailers is the only way to manage our business in the UK and have no interest in selling direct to the customer. We believe that only an authorised retailer can provide a suitable environment in which to listen, compare and consider our products properly and at the same time, get some impartial advice and maybe even a decent cup of tea. Also, at Roth Audio, we believe that we have a responsibility to our retail partners, to ensure that we provide products in which they can have confidence, that provide value for money and that perform to our stated specification....and that sound fabulous.
Furthermore, in my personal opinion, the traditional hifi retailer already has enough to deal with, without having to fight against direct sales from manufacturers. As a British hifi brand, in every sense of the word, we take our responsibilities to our retail partners very seriously indeed; we need them to work in partnership with us and without them (and their unrivalled expertise) we would fail. There would be no hifi industry.
These highly knowledgeable people and businesses are not only the "past" of this industry but also the future; to suggest otherwise is simply misguided and wrong.
I hope that this makes our position clear.
Please note that Roth Audio loudspeakers and Roth Audio's distribution policy has nothing to do with Mr. Allen's strategy for Arcaydis whatsoever.
Mr. Allen has contributed to the design of our new range of loudspeakers, but this is all.
This thread seems to be in danger of confusing two entirely separate brands, companies and marketing philosophies, merely because of the manner in which Mr. Allen has engaged with this forum.
We believe that selling and marketing our products through authorised retailers is the only way to manage our business in the UK and have no interest in selling direct to the customer. We believe that only an authorised retailer can provide a suitable environment in which to listen, compare and consider our products properly and at the same time, get some impartial advice and maybe even a decent cup of tea. Also, at Roth Audio, we believe that we have a responsibility to our retail partners, to ensure that we provide products in which they can have confidence, that provide value for money and that perform to our stated specification....and that sound fabulous.
Furthermore, in my personal opinion, the traditional hifi retailer already has enough to deal with, without having to fight against direct sales from manufacturers. As a British hifi brand, in every sense of the word, we take our responsibilities to our retail partners very seriously indeed; we need them to work in partnership with us and without them (and their unrivalled expertise) we would fail. There would be no hifi industry.
These highly knowledgeable people and businesses are not only the "past" of this industry but also the future; to suggest otherwise is simply misguided and wrong.
I hope that this makes our position clear.
Absolutely James. I have nothing to do with your marketing processes at all. Never said I did. I am Arcaydis/ EB and that's all I am. Nothing else is inferred or implied.
Hi Richard I used to make speakers myself back in the early 70s but along came Comets and the like and I found it impossible to compete in the cut throat market. Funnily enough I used Richard and Allen drivers sometimes.
I was thinking if you are stretched why don't you get the cabinets made for you thus increasing production.
I was thinking if you are stretched why don't you get the cabinets made for you thus increasing production.
bigboss
Moderator
bigboss said:
Ok didnt read all the posts so didnt realise all that was required to make the cabinets, but I have been involved in manufacturing all my working life and Im sure things can be changed to improve manufacturing times like buying in blanks ready cut and machined etc.
The other thing is that when an order is placed customers should be given a delivery date so at least they know what to expect. Not just take payment and wonder when you will get it.i
quote
When an order is placed, an email is sent saying roughly how long the current wait is for the speaker ordered. This wil let customers know that you are alive and the order has been placed, and the customer then won't fret until the expected build time is reached.
For 5 mins per order;, I think this would reap big benefits for all.
Point noted and will be duly implemented
__________________
Richard Allen.
Arcaydis.
quote
When an order is placed, an email is sent saying roughly how long the current wait is for the speaker ordered. This wil let customers know that you are alive and the order has been placed, and the customer then won't fret until the expected build time is reached.
For 5 mins per order;, I think this would reap big benefits for all.
Point noted and will be duly implemented
__________________
Richard Allen.
Arcaydis.
quote
I'm really puzzled by some of the responses on this thread!
Richard is building some of the best speakers on the planet at this price point according to the reviews (I'm working from reviews here - mine are "in the queue"). I can't imagine anyone ordering from him is ordering on anything other than the quality of the product, and wouldn't be ordering if they weren't prepared to wait.
It's easy to find out the likely delivery time - you pick up the phone! I did, and had a very enjoyable conversation engaging with the craftsman who will produce my speakers when my turn comes - so I now have not only an order, but a relationship too!
I can well imagine that my delivery date may slip - it's the nature of a handcrafted product that interuptions occur, and deadlines get extended - if it does I'll pick up the phone again and we'll talk! If I had an email in my hand stating a date I would be no more or less happy - but at four orders a week it would just have added 20 mins work to Richard's week! Over the course of a year that's two days of lost production (or extra overtime).
Why do we want to push Richard in the direction of standard mass produced processes and responses when part of the USP of the product is its hand-crafted nature and the personal attention to detail that ensures the sound quality?
If I wanted a mass produced car I'd go off to my local Ford?VAG/ANO dealer, place an order - and yes I'd expect emails telling me exact delivery dates. But if I wanted a hand crafted special, I'd be off to Morgan where I could probably expect a wait of several years! It's horses for courses...
If I were advising Arcadys to do anything with the busness it would be to hire a really good apprentice so that the unique skills and knowledge are not lost, there's someone to do some of the less critical graft work, and so that Richard has more time for thinking up new designs, building relationships with customers, and further honing the unique proposition he offers.
Hopefully I won't have delayed my speakers while Richard reads this!
Dave
Richard is building some of the best speakers on the planet at this price point according to the reviews (I'm working from reviews here - mine are "in the queue"). I can't imagine anyone ordering from him is ordering on anything other than the quality of the product, and wouldn't be ordering if they weren't prepared to wait.
It's easy to find out the likely delivery time - you pick up the phone! I did, and had a very enjoyable conversation engaging with the craftsman who will produce my speakers when my turn comes - so I now have not only an order, but a relationship too!
I can well imagine that my delivery date may slip - it's the nature of a handcrafted product that interuptions occur, and deadlines get extended - if it does I'll pick up the phone again and we'll talk! If I had an email in my hand stating a date I would be no more or less happy - but at four orders a week it would just have added 20 mins work to Richard's week! Over the course of a year that's two days of lost production (or extra overtime).
Why do we want to push Richard in the direction of standard mass produced processes and responses when part of the USP of the product is its hand-crafted nature and the personal attention to detail that ensures the sound quality?
If I wanted a mass produced car I'd go off to my local Ford?VAG/ANO dealer, place an order - and yes I'd expect emails telling me exact delivery dates. But if I wanted a hand crafted special, I'd be off to Morgan where I could probably expect a wait of several years! It's horses for courses...
If I were advising Arcadys to do anything with the busness it would be to hire a really good apprentice so that the unique skills and knowledge are not lost, there's someone to do some of the less critical graft work, and so that Richard has more time for thinking up new designs, building relationships with customers, and further honing the unique proposition he offers.
Hopefully I won't have delayed my speakers while Richard reads this!
Dave
BigH
Well-known member
Daveperc said:
What reviews are you referring to?
I think the problem many people have expected to wait a few months for their speakers, however when they don't arrive within 6 months they start to get worried, like the OP, they send emails and get no response, they phone up and get no answer. I think your idea of an appentice is a good one if a good one could be found.
I am not talking of mass production I am talking about reducing manufacturing times by using more modern methods the quality would be the same. Cut a piece of wood and use a plane to square it, it would take even a skilled man a long time. But do it on a machine and you will save a lot of time. I have never seen anything done by hand in manufacturing that cannot be done as well on a machine. In fact it is the other way round few people can match machines for quality. Anything that reduces manufacturing times helps increase production which means you can keep up with demand. You then upset customers less and get more business.
When I used to make speakers there were no electric routers and I used to use a hand rebate plane, the results were good but it took a long time. Last time I made some speakers I used a router which took a tenth of the time and it looked even better.
When I used to make speakers there were no electric routers and I used to use a hand rebate plane, the results were good but it took a long time. Last time I made some speakers I used a router which took a tenth of the time and it looked even better.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
ROTH AV said:
I never thought you were connected in any way, or shared a philosophy path. I just asked, because I couldn't remember, whether Richard had mentioned about retail outlets. Eventually I found the thread and post, but there was no mention by any party that Richard and you echoed any marketing/distribution path. As I posted last: "S'okay - found it. "
Hope that's clear.
plastic penguin said:
OK. Let me make this quite clear to everyone on here. Not from Arcaydis/EBs point of view but from MY point of view.
Over the years I have been involved both as a CABINET MAKER and, to a greater extent a SOUND ENGINEER in many designs for other companies. The brief is quite explicit. " Do what we require of you ". Nothing more, nothing less.
At NO time have they or I become inter related from any point of view. It just doesn't happen nor will it in the future. When I get called to calibrate a PA sytem at a venue or get called to set up a sytem in a club or bar does that mean I'm affiliated with these people?. NO!!. I'm just the dip***t engineer that makes it all work. Get paid, walk away.
The politics or philosophies of the clients is none of my business and never will be. I will say one thing though. If I had the retail outlets that some of these companies have I would never have gone direct in the first place. It's just that the retailers I aimed at in the early days are a different calibre from that of some of the other companies.
Now my position in relation to ANY other company is clear.
http://www.whathifi.com/review/EB-Acoustics-EB2 and http://www.whathifi.com/Review/ATC-SCM-11
There are others in other mags linked from EB website.
And yes, as a chartered engineer and chartered director I am very familiar with modern manufacturing processes etc. Although mechanised processes have greater accuracy they don't have the skill of a master craftsman at things like reading and using the grain direction in the wood etc. Richard even hand winds the coils for the crossovers so he can tune them precisely - this is craftsmanship, not "efficient production" that is the objective.
As for contacting him - as I said in an earlier post - aim for the start or end of the day when he's not head down in the workshop - simples!
Now perhaps we'd better leave him alone to finish my speakers!! :cheers:
I'm sure there are other people who can hand wind coils too and veneer cabinets.
Perhaps Richard should make his own drive units, nuts and bolts and screws etc where does it stop.
Perhaps Richard should make his own drive units, nuts and bolts and screws etc where does it stop.
bigboss
Moderator
Daveperc, a lot of customers are from abroad, and phoning isn't the easiest option for them. If people order online (& not over the phone), it's reasonable for them to expect response to delivery times, delays etc. online, either on the website or via email.
The_Lhc
Well-known member
Coll said:
It stops where Richard wants it to stop, who are you to question that? It's his product, he'll manufacture it in the manner he sees fit, if people can't live with that they'll have to order from somewhere else.
The_Lhc said:
That is the point he has a great product but he must have lost many orders and customer goodwill due to the high demand and must find solutions to avoid these things happening in the future.
I know what it is like to work under pressure you need time to find answers but you dont have time its a vicious circle. He can run his business exactly how he likes. I was trying to suggest some ideas originally to help.
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