Any Difference?

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l have decided to biwire my Monitor Audio RS1's from an Arcam 8 amp & had made up my mind to use Chord Odyssey 2 to do so. However, l managed to get a really good deal on Odyssey 4 & would like any advice on connections.

As many of you will know, the Arcam 8 has two sets of 'speaker terminals. So should l use all 8. Or twist together the two positive & negative wires & use the one set only. Effectively two plugs at the amp end & four plugs at the 'speaker end per run.
 
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Anonymous

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It is usually suggested that you use only one set for bi-wiring, then you can be sure the electronic path is identical and there is no trouble regarding resistance/impedence. However, it is possible to do it from all 8 terminals.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="chesterfieldhouse"]
l have decided to biwire my Monitor Audio RS1's from an Arcam 8 amp & had made up my mind to use Chord Odyssey 2 to do so. However, l managed to get a really good deal on Odyssey 4 & would like any advice on connections.

As many of you will know, the Arcam 8 has two sets of 'speaker terminals. So should l use all 8. Or twist together the two positive & negative wires & use the one set only. Effectively two plugs at the amp end & four plugs at the 'speaker end per run.
[/quote]

i would not bi wire at all.i have Rs1's and i spent a few hours at the weekend with a mate testing out my cable single wired against bi wired.Despite listening carefully and using a variety of cd's we could not hear ANY difference whatsoever. if i were you I would single wire but make 4 x 6 inch leads from the cable you buy and use that in place of the gold connectors.Thats what i did. i was bi wiring with x tube 400 and i am now selling a run as i dont need it.I would also not buy odyssey for Rs1's.It is too bright.My x tube is weightier and not as bright as odyssey and its still like fingers down a blackboard at times. Silver cable on Rs1 tweeters ia a big no no i think.I use a pure copper cable now in place of the gold jumpers so i get all the great benefits of the xtube400 on my woofers and a toned down copper only treble. Bi wiring is a waste of money generally ( its biamping that the 4 posts are there for) but on Rs1's there is no difference.if i was buying cable for rs1'S now i would buy a single wire copper only cable and make jumper cables. it will sound the same as bi wired and might just save you a few quid.in answer to your question, use all 8 terminals.
 
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Anonymous

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When I first got into hifi I heard about bi-wiring, saved-up the necessary spondoolies and tried it. Knob-all difference. I haven't tried it since but I do advocate using decent cable. Chord Odyssey is decent cable and won't break the bank. Bi-wiring does break the bank and for no good reason!
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="Fraziel"][quote user="chesterfieldhouse"]
l have decided to biwire my Monitor Audio RS1's from an Arcam 8 amp & had made up my mind to use Chord Odyssey 2 to do so. However, l managed to get a really good deal on Odyssey 4 & would like any advice on connections.

As many of you will know, the Arcam 8 has two sets of 'speaker terminals. So should l use all 8. Or twist together the two positive & negative wires & use the one set only. Effectively two plugs at the amp end & four plugs at the 'speaker end per run.
[/quote]

i would not bi wire at all.i have Rs1's and i spent a few hours at the weekend with a mate testing out my cable single wired against bi wired.Despite listening carefully and using a variety of cd's we could not hear ANY difference whatsoever. if i were you I would single wire but make 4 x 6 inch leads from the cable you buy and use that in place of the gold connectors.Thats what i did. i was bi wiring with x tube 400 and i am now selling a run as i dont need it.I would also not buy odyssey for Rs1's.It is too bright.My x tube is weightier and not as bright as odyssey and its still like fingers down a blackboard at times. Silver cable on Rs1 tweeters ia a big no no i think.I use a pure copper cable now in place of the gold jumpers so i get all the great benefits of the xtube400 on my woofers and a toned down copper only treble. Bi wiring is a waste of money generally ( its biamping that the 4 posts are there for) but on Rs1's there is no difference.if i was buying cable for rs1'S now i would buy a single wire copper only cable and make jumper cables. it will sound the same as bi wired and might just save you a few quid.in answer to your question, use all 8 terminals.[/quote]

I agree about the benefits of bi-wiring the RS1s, don't bother. A decent single wire is fine, with little two inch runs of the same cable to bridge the speaker posts instead of the gold bars. As for Odyssey on the RS1s, I love mine but can accept that they might provide a brighter sound than some other cables. I think that the RS1s are naturally very bright and any cable that tones them down will have less use in a future system. Just my opinions... (If you do get Odyssey, ask for some little bits of the install Odyssey cable for the jumpers. It's the same cable but without the outer jacket. Saves even more messing around!)
 

Anton90125

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[quote user="igglebert"]I agree about the benefits of bi-wiring the RS1s, don't bother. A decent single wire is fine[/quote]

I disagree, in my experience biwiring makes a sizeable difference. My early expeience (late 1980's) with biwiring involved DIY mods to standard speakers (some very early MA with metal dome tweeters, Rogers LS6, Celestion SL600). We did mono testing first, ie moded speaker against unmoded. Using the same cable for tweeter and woofer give significant results- even blind tested with people with no interest in hifi.
Using different cable for top and bottom gave better results as it was possible (by carefully choosing the appropriate cable) to tailor the sound (no tone controls required)

The question of brass jumper plates did not come into it for us.

My best advice is to try it out yourself with some cheapish cable, single against biwired. The biwire virtures I have heard are:

1. Tighter less boomy/boxy bass

2. Sweeter top very noticeable on femail voices, cymbals played by a jazz drummer and trumpets

3. When you listen in stereo, The sound stage is bigger with more depth

Though the degree of improvement varied from speaker to speaker and cable combinations, the way it improved the sound seemed constant.

If you find you don't hear a difference then go for a decent set of single cables. If you do hear a difference well...
But please do test yourself because it is clear that some people can't hear a difference while others like me can.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="Anton90125"][quote user="igglebert"]I agree about the benefits of bi-wiring the RS1s, don't bother. A decent single wire is fine[/quote]

I disagree, in my experience biwiring makes a sizeable difference. My early expeience (late 1980's) with biwiring involved DIY mods to standard speakers (some very early MA with metal dome tweeters, Rogers LS6, Celestion SL600). We did mono testing first, ie moded speaker against unmoded. Using the same cable for tweeter and woofer give significant results- even blind tested with people with no interest in hifi. Using different cable for top and bottom gave better results as it was possible (by carefully choosing the appropriate cable) to tailor the sound (no tone controls required)

The question of brass jumper plates did not come into it for us.

My best advice is to try it out yourself with some cheapish cable, single against biwired. The biwire virtures I have heard are:

1. Tighter less boomy/boxy bass

2. Sweeter top very noticeable on femail voices, cymbals played by a jazz drummer and trumpets

3. When you listen in stereo, The sound stage is bigger with more depth

Though the degree of improvement varied from speaker to speaker and cable combinations, the way it improved the sound seemed constant.

If you find you don't hear a difference then go for a decent set of single cables. If you do hear a difference well... But please do test yourself because it is clear that some people can't hear a difference while others like me can.

[/quote]

Your experience with biwiring was so good, you haven't done it since the late 1980s.
emotion-2.gif
 
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Anonymous

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I guess its down to individual experience. I made a couple of changes to my system recently and noticed a big difference each time.

The first change was to replace my cheap interconnects with Atlas Navigators (a gift from a mate) - and experienced a noticeable difference across the whole sound.

Second change was to bi-wire my Cresta 3s - and the difference blew me away. I listened to music that I had been listening to for years, and it sounded so much better it was incredible. Greater clarity and separation, I was hearing instruments that I hadn't even noticed before!

For me, it was a cheap way (given that the Atlas's were free!) to improve my hi-fi experience no end.
 
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Anonymous

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Well now l've biwired my RS1's with Odyssey 4 cable, 4 plugs at the 'speaker end & 2 at the amp, using the switched 'speaker sockets on the Arcam 8 amp. Reading my initail thread it didn't make much sense( No change there) As l had initailly made up my mind to single wire using Odyssey 2 cable, remove the links & make up some jumper leads.

However, l must have caught the dealer on a good day, as l had the opportunity to have Odyssey 4 for a very good price & thinking perhaps to the future purchased this. So as l had it l went for the biwire option.

lt's only been in situ for half a dozen CD's, but initial thoughts are that it's performing in a different way to expected. People have commented on the match of Monitor Audio RS1's & Odyssey as a silver cable, l have found that the combination is nowhere as bright as the QED SA.

Lastly, anyone with any recommendations as to a suitable interconnect? Something up to approx' £100.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="Anton90125"]I disagree, in my experience biwiring makes a sizeable difference[/quote]

Not with RS1's it doesn't. I have biwired and single wired a fair few pairs of speakers and the best i have ever heard is a slight improvement on a set of £150 tangent monitor 9 floorstanders. Why should bi wiring be better than using single wire with jumpers made from the same cable? Insted of splitting the signal at the amp end and sending it down 2 sets of cables ,you do it at the speaker end. Perhaps some people can hear a difference depending on the speaker, and if you can then fair play to you, go ahead and bi wire, but it makes no difference on RS1's.you will get a bigger improvement single wiring using better speaker cable.Thats what i have found anyway.
 

Anton90125

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[quote user="stormbringer"] Your experience with biwiring was so good, you haven't done it since the late 1980s.[/quote]

???? What makes you think that ????

Of all the speakers I have had, only my first two speakers weren't biwired Kef Celeste III and Linn KANS, all the others have been (either by DIY mods or by manufacture design).
 

Anton90125

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The theory behind biwiring suggests that biwiring should always be better since you are reducing the cross modulation between high and low frequency elements of the signal. Also you are allowing the amp to better control the back EMF caused by the large "overshoots" of the woofer voice coil and reducing it effects on tweeter.

But at the end of the day it's about what you hear (or don't hear ) which is why I believe the individual should do the test themselves.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="chesterfieldhouse"]
Well now l've biwired my RS1's with Odyssey 4 cable, 4 plugs at the 'speaker end & 2 at the amp, using the switched 'speaker sockets on the Arcam 8 amp. Reading my initail thread it didn't make much sense( No change there) As l had initailly made up my mind to single wire using Odyssey 2 cable, remove the links & make up some jumper leads.

However, l must have caught the dealer on a good day, as l had the opportunity to have Odyssey 4 for a very good price & thinking perhaps to the future purchased this. So as l had it l went for the biwire option.

lt's only been in situ for half a dozen CD's, but initial thoughts are that it's performing in a different way to expected. People have commented on the match of Monitor Audio RS1's & Odyssey as a silver cable, l have found that the combination is nowhere as bright as the QED SA.

Lastly, anyone with any recommendations as to a suitable interconnect? Something up to approx' £100.
[/quote]

Good man, works for me too. The RS1s are a bit bright but that's life. I've got a Chord Chameleon Silver Plus - these are £100'ish online. Works a treat and was a great upgrade from my Chord Cobra 2. If you can afford more then it'll be worth it, Chord Chorus 2 comes to mind, but the Cham is fantastic.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="chesterfieldhouse"]Lastly, anyone with any recommendations as to a suitable interconnect? Something
up to approx' £100.[/quote]

try a nordost blue heaven.if you are prepared to go second hand you can get them on e bay from anything between £40 and £65.They are £125 new but you can get them a little cheaper online. My mate just bought one and we had a demo of it against my chord chorus on tuesday night.I expected the chord to be better with a more controlled treble, deeper bass and more realism.I was wrong.There was so little difference between them it was impossible to tell the difference in a normal test or a blind test.A bargain at £65 never mind £40.
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="Fraziel"][quote user="chesterfieldhouse"]Lastly, anyone with any recommendations as to a suitable interconnect? Something
up to approx' £100.[/quote]

try a nordost blue heaven.if you are prepared to go second hand you can get them on e bay from anything between £40 and £65.They are £125 new but you can get them a little cheaper online. My mate just bought one and we had a demo of it against my chord chorus on tuesday night.I expected the chord to be better with a more controlled treble, deeper bass and more realism.I was wrong.There was so little difference between them it was impossible to tell the difference in a normal test or a blind test.A bargain at £65 never mind £40.[/quote]
The BH is very good, but for heaven's sake don't buy before trying. I tried one for a week and really really wanted to like it but found it didn't suit my RS1s. I'm not sure I gave it enough burn in time as it was new, but I found that it was a bit too brash and thin. It seemed to tone down my much needed bass, but in a different system I will be revisiting!
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="igglebert"]The BH is very good, but for heaven's sake don't buy before trying. I tried one
for a week and really really wanted to like it but found it didn't suit my RS1s.
I'm not sure I gave it enough burn in time as it was new, but I found that it
was a bit too brash and thin. It seemed to tone down my much needed bass, but in
a different system I will be revisiting![/quote]

Yes.Good point.Although my mate had a BH before so we knew how good it would be.The chord chorus is not quite as bright as the chameleon and yet i found the BH to be no brighter than the chorus! of course igglebert, your cd player and amp are brighter than mine which is v likely a factor in you finding the Bh incompatible.Joelsim mentioned the vdh.Its a very good cable.Neutral sounding and would fit well into any system i think.
 

JoelSim

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All my stuff is neutral really, that's how I want it. As the artist intended it to be. I did have a bright system a few years back - Yamaha CDX100, Pioneer A-400 and Celestion DL6 IIs - amp and speakers now at my parents with Arcam 6 CD, the Yamaha was consigned to the scrapheap many years ago. It's a nice sound, but when I listen these days it's sounds very poor in comparison to what I now have. The Arcam 6 is nowhere near as bright as the nasty Yamaha though.
 

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