amplifiers with dac or whitout it

[anonymous]

i wonder what are your reflections of amplifiers that have dac or not, what would you prefer and wich one use to sound better if we look for example the same brand with 1 amplifier whit dac and the other not but both in the same price

 

[Al ears]

i wonder what are your reflections of amplifiers that have dac or not, what would you prefer and wich one use to sound better if we look for example the same brand with 1 amplifier whit dac and the other not but both in the same price

Logically, in that situation, it is better to buy the amp without the DAC as, in theory, more money will have been spent on the important bits of the amplifier i.e. power supply etc.

 

[BigH]

I prefer them without, why pay for something I may already have or don't want?

Mosr cd players have Dacs. If you use turntable you don't need one. Why pay for a cheap Dac inside an amp.

 

[thewinelake.]

It would be interesting to know how internal and external DACs compare. eg. DAC in a £500 amp like Rotel RA-11/Cambridge Audio CXA60 vs a Dragonfly black or similar (or preferably something of a similar price with a TOS-link input).

I'm in a similar situation with an old Audiolab amp and was wondering if there's something else a bit like this, but of dragonfly quality (which I assume this is not!) https://www.amazon.co.uk/LINDY-USB-DAC-Headphone-Amp/dp/B005ZRV07U

 

[Al ears]

It would be interesting to know how internal and external DACs compare. eg. DAC in a £500 amp like Rotel RA-11/Cambridge Audio CXA60 vs a Dragonfly black or similar (or preferably something of a similar price with a TOS-link input).

I'm in a similar situation with an old Audiolab amp and was wondering if there's something else a bit like this, but of dragonfly quality (which I assume this is not!) https://www.amazon.co.uk/LINDY-USB-DAC-Headphone-Amp/dp/B005ZRV07U

To me adding a DAC into an amp is usually pretty much as an afterthought. To do so in a budget amp means savings have to be made elsewhere in the design thus cheapening the amp itself. As stated CDPs have them fitted anyway and if you're thinking of streaming you probably own a DAC of some sort already.

Keep separates separate I say. ;-)

 

[CnoEvil]

Personally, I buy an amp because I like the sound of it better than its peers, not because it has a DAC....if it happens to have a DAC, then great (provided it's a good one).

 

[thewinelake.]

Comparing built-in DACs to inexpensive external ones.

 

[TomSawyer]

Also taking an analogue signal and increasing it is very mature technology and so (upgraditis aside) it is unlikely you will have to change an amplifier without a DAC for years. Digital technology is still on the move so having your DAC separate makes good sense to me.

 

[chebby]

Inside my Quad Vena i'll find ...

Cirrus Logic CS8416 and CS4398 DAC chips.

Analog Devices OP275 op amps.

The same National Semiconductors (now TI) LM3886 amplifer found in the Arcam A19.

I'll leave it to you to tell me if any of that gear is any good. (I'm not the expert.)

I'll tell you it sounds gorgeous through my Audio-Note speakers.

It has some other friends ...

Qobuz review (very thorough and lots of pics)

Hifi Choice (pdf)

Hifi World (pdf)

However, if you need to ask yourself whether an integrated device is going to sound the same as more expensive separates (with all the duplicated power supplies and cases), then you should buy separates. Otherwise it'll niggle at you forever.

 

[TomSawyer]

There's going to be amps with built in DACs that sound better than separates and vice-versa but in general terms, separating digital and analogue electronics into two separate boxes with separate power supplies isn't a bad idea.

 

[thewinelake.]

To allow optical, coax and USB in for less than £200?

might be a good partner to old style kit or even contemporary but DACless stuff (which seems to get discounted quickly)

 

[MajorFubar]

Also taking an analogue signal and increasing it is very mature technology and so (upgraditis aside) it is unlikely you will have to change an amplifier without a DAC for years. Digital technology is still on the move so having your DAC separate makes good sense to me.

That's a very interesting viewpoint because I've always seen it the other way. My viewpoint usually is that digital audio matured late last century and since then it's just been about making all the devices smaller and cheaper. Whereas you can't build a really great amp on the cheap, simply because the parts that go in it are not cheap to start with, so there's usually oppotunity to upgrade unless you're already a fair way up the ladder.

I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right though, it's just a different way of looking at it.

 

[chebby]

To allow optical, coax and USB in for less than £200?

might be a good partner to old style kit or even contemporary but DACless stuff (which seems to get discounted quickly)

Cambridge Audio Dacmagic 100

There is also the Beresford Caiman MkII where the standard model costs £169 + VAT ...

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/S/dac.htm

 

[BigH]

Also taking an analogue signal and increasing it is very mature technology and so (upgraditis aside) it is unlikely you will have to change an amplifier without a DAC for years. Digital technology is still on the move so having your DAC separate makes good sense to me.

That's a very interesting viewpoint because I've always seen it the other way. My viewpoint usually is that digital audio matured late last century and since then it's just been about making all the devices smaller and cheaper. Whereas you can't build a really great amp on the cheap, simply because the parts that go in it are not cheap to start with, so there's usually oppotunity to upgrade unless you're already a fair way up the ladder.

I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right though, it's just a different way of looking at it.

I think thats right but what is changing is things like format, DSD is fairly recent, also the bits may be increasing from 24bit to 36bit then 48bit, this does not concern me but some may want these extra bits for some reason.

 

[thewinelake.]

Where can one get DSD source? Is it just SACD or do the BBC get involved at all?

 

[BigH]

Where can one get DSD source? Is it just SACD or do the BBC get involved at all?

Downloads, see sites like HDTracks, HighResAudio and Acoutic Sounds. They are not SACDs.

BBC?

 

[thewinelake.]

I'm going to stop hijacking this thread!

 

[tino]

I prefer an amplifier to host an internal DAC. In the same way that many amplifiers used to come with a phono stage, I think in this day and age, digital SPDIF / USB is more apropriate. You can of course upgrade to an external DAC if you wish, but if you can squeeze a half decent DAC into something the size of a USB memory stick, I don't see why you can't do the same inside a fairly roomy metal box.

 

[Al ears]

Where can one get DSD source? Is it just SACD or do the BBC get involved at all?

Downloads, see sites like HDTracks, HighResAudio and Acoutic Sounds. They are not SACDs.

BBC?

DSD is simply an uncompressed file format the SACD disc is a physical media.

As above files can be downloaded from many different webstores, I will not list them as you can easily Google them.

 

[Andrewjvt]

With the built in dac in my amp. After a year i have no regrets or the need to upgrade.

 

[busb]

With the built in dac in my amp. After a year i have no regrets or the need to upgrade.

The friend who bought my Totem Arros upgraded his entire system with an MF M3 variant amp with a DAC, an MF CDP with various inputs to its DAC. Out of the 2, making the DAC in the CDP available makes perfect sense, building one into amp, less so.

I used the DAC in my TV via an AppleTV for a while - the SQ was acceptable - better than expected. This experience made me realise ALL DAC chips give 90% of the best & some will pay £1000s for that last 10%.

I've just ordered an M-DAC+ whose SQ increase will be tangible but not huge. It will decode DSD that my original M-DAC won't which will allow me to determine if the format has any merit for me.

 

[anonymous]

I prefer them without, why pay for something I may already have or don't want?

Mosr cd players have Dacs. If you use turntable you don't need one. Why pay for a cheap Dac inside an amp.

thanks for all the information of all you people

i agreed that is the beauty of vinyl and reel to reel and cassette they dont need dac ( i guess is only these 3 machines are the one that dont need dac)

in the same time i had read people that buy separate dacs for listen to cd *nea* then i guess is better if you have money to buy a very good dac insise (native) the cd ( sorry my english) but then it can not be a native dac in size of for example audio research dac 8 *ROFL*

 

[anonymous]

I'm going to stop hijacking this thread!

hey hey hahahahaha thanks *dirol*

 

[Andrewjvt]

With the built in dac in my amp. After a year i have no regrets or the need to upgrade.

The friend who bought my Totem Arros upgraded his entire system with an MF M3 variant amp with a DAC, an MF CDP with various inputs to its DAC. Out of the 2, making the DAC in the CDP available makes perfect sense, building one into amp, less so.

I used the DAC in my TV via an AppleTV for a while - the SQ was acceptable - better than expected. This experience made me realise ALL DAC chips give 90% of the best & some will pay £1000s for that last 10%.

I've just ordered an M-DAC+ whose SQ increase will be tangible but not huge. It will decode DSD that my original M-DAC won't which will allow me to determine if the format has any merit for me. 

True dsd sounds very good through the right system although you need good amp/speakers to hear it.
Just not many good bands available to directly compare as its mostly clasical genre but what i have heard sounds very good.

 

[Native_bon]

With the built in dac in my amp. After a year i have no regrets or the need to upgrade.

The friend who bought my Totem Arros upgraded his entire system with an MF M3 variant amp with a DAC, an MF CDP with various inputs to its DAC. Out of the 2, making the DAC in the CDP available makes perfect sense, building one into amp, less so.

I used the DAC in my TV via an AppleTV for a while - the SQ was acceptable - better than expected. This experience made me realise ALL DAC chips give 90% of the best & some will pay £1000s for that last 10%.

I've just ordered an M-DAC+ whose SQ increase will be tangible but not huge. It will decode DSD that my original M-DAC won't which will allow me to determine if the format has any merit for me.

True dsd sounds very good through the right system although you need good amp/speakers to hear it. Just not many good bands available to directly compare as its mostly clasical genre but what i have heard sounds very good.

Would like to hear your findings about the M-DAC+ cause am looking to get one as well.