Hearing differences down to 1dB is normal. Women and kids may be even more sensitive. Bare in mind 1dB difference in a loud rock song can be inaudible completely. Tone signals are much easier to discern.
With regards to AV amps I think the truth may lie somewhere in the middle - powerful higher end ones I think can amply replace stereo integrateds. However a local dealer, who deals big in Marantz, was honest enough to tell me that the slimline NR1604 with its rated 50w is probably equal to my little Arcam Solo Mini, and he doesn't sell Arcam - he thought my system was good. Then again he was trying to persuade me toward the full size Marantz AV amps.
I'm still eyeing the NR1604 or the forthcoming 1605 though. Its functionality seems too good to pass up.
I'm still eyeing the NR1604 or the forthcoming 1605 though. Its functionality seems too good to pass up.
pauln said:
He is expressing his opinion just like the rest of us and like everyone in this audiophoolery hobby he has oddities. I'd rather visit Isac and listen to his system, enjoy a beer or two, than visit a lab for some beeping test tones to prove things irrelevant.
I feel the need to bring in the "Blind tests are needed bomb".....
A reciever set up to deliver its full range (large speaker and Bass) to its front speakers will perform - like stereo amps some are better than others. but its well worth going through the set-up options. My amp cost me well under 500pounds and is old, yet clearly out performed amps in the 700 pound bracket on the end of my speakers in my home. (it was 500pounds new though)
it was not a case of the devil you know etheir - it sounded clearly better.
my speakers new cost 900pounds too..... they do a good job.
ref the power thing - you may not hear much of difference between 50w & 100w but you'll feel it. I compared the Rotel ra-1520 60w, Cyrus 8 - 70w against the Roksan K - 120wpc you could feel the difference in the room
But I'd love to see the results of a blind test - decent AV amp v quality Stereo.
I've heard some systems in the homes Ive worked in, the best one was a Denon AV reciever (don't now its details) driving a pair of Spendor 6 speakers - the owner dropped some Willy Nelson on me, sounded amazing, Willy was in the room with us, him and his guitar - his rendition of 'Always on my mind' as haunted me ever since.
A reciever set up to deliver its full range (large speaker and Bass) to its front speakers will perform - like stereo amps some are better than others. but its well worth going through the set-up options. My amp cost me well under 500pounds and is old, yet clearly out performed amps in the 700 pound bracket on the end of my speakers in my home. (it was 500pounds new though)
it was not a case of the devil you know etheir - it sounded clearly better.
my speakers new cost 900pounds too..... they do a good job.
ref the power thing - you may not hear much of difference between 50w & 100w but you'll feel it. I compared the Rotel ra-1520 60w, Cyrus 8 - 70w against the Roksan K - 120wpc you could feel the difference in the room
But I'd love to see the results of a blind test - decent AV amp v quality Stereo.
I've heard some systems in the homes Ive worked in, the best one was a Denon AV reciever (don't now its details) driving a pair of Spendor 6 speakers - the owner dropped some Willy Nelson on me, sounded amazing, Willy was in the room with us, him and his guitar - his rendition of 'Always on my mind' as haunted me ever since.
Vladimir said:
Giogio Moroder is a great producer....... :rockout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gyPjIxpDe4
Not Donna, my old mate Phil, Mrs DDC's favourite ever single...... :cheer:
nopiano
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I got 10/10 at 1dB at the first attempt, with some distant road noise and back door open. It was quite plain. But only got 6/10 for 0.5dB so that is more like guesswork!Vladimir said:1dB difference. Much more troublesome but if I concentrate in silence (close doors, windows to mute the neighbours lawn mower) I manage to get 100%.
That was on MacBook speakers with volume about 3/4 of max, and ironically might be harder on a hifi as laptop probably distorts less as level drops, so may not be hearing pure tone only!
davedotco said:
Correct.
And like all greats he did it on a pair of JBLs.
Well no wonder Mrs DDC like Phil. He is a really handsome devil.
Vladimir said:davedotco said:
Correct.
And like all greats he did it on a pair of JBLs.
Well no wonder Mrs DDC like Phil. He is a really handsome devil.
We did some gigs with early Human League, well before Joanne and Susan (in the picture) and for whatever reason, after the split, helped Ian (Craig-Marsh) and Martin (Ware) set up a simple home studio in Sheffield which later became Monument, where Penthouse and Pavement was recorded.
Didn't have any further contact with any of them and Together in Electric Dreams passed me by until I found it in the collection of the second Mrs DDC.
Vladimir said:
Hi Vladimir
Yuo are more than welcome to drink beer or two :beer:
Simple example I heard some relatively expensive AVR receivers cost more than the Rokasn Kandy , the AVRs were excellent for HT use
but in music listening the Roksan for example defeat them easily with its powerful worm sound while HT receiver sound was pale and shalow
and the lack of power was obvious . Maybe High-End very expensive AVRs can equale to Hi-Fi amps but I am not willing to invest on them .
hifikrazy said:
The distortion figures tell you about the "quality of the watts". Both the AV amp and the stereo one have very low figures, so I would expect them to sound very similar. Hybrid, what's the point? Valve amps are mediocre compared to SS ones.
TrevC said:
Which ones have you heard that led you to that conclusion?.....VTL are an example of a brand that shatter the preconceived notion that Valves have to sound all smooth and warm.
I have finally come to the conclusion that TrevC is hard of hearing because just about every component sounds the same or very similar to him, which is why I said before that he shouldn't bother with this hobby and just use one of these...
It's quite ideal for him really... no need for interconnects, power cords, power distributor, speaker cables, isolation feet... No valves, no digital (since 1's and 0's also means all digital products sound the same). Absolutely perfect for TrevC.
It's quite ideal for him really... no need for interconnects, power cords, power distributor, speaker cables, isolation feet... No valves, no digital (since 1's and 0's also means all digital products sound the same). Absolutely perfect for TrevC.
TrevC said:
:rofl: Another bombshell from the Genius! Wait... let me guess... it's because SS amps measure better.
ISAC69 said:
My amp retailed at £1000, bought in a sale for substantially less. It sits comfortably alongside the high price amps I've had before and easily beat a good few others. If it hadn't it wouldn't have stayed. And I think I'm about as fussy as it gets.
Your views might have held true once, but they're out of touch and outdated now.
Heard before the Onkyo and it's one of the best AVR I heard in this level price but still not my cup of tea for music listening .
However I am happy for you that is doing a good job in your system :rockout:
However I am happy for you that is doing a good job in your system :rockout:
ISAC69 said:
What a load of tosh you're speading in written word. Can you direct me to the "harsh", "bright" and "depth" specifications on all these various amps.
CnoEvil said:
I seriously doubt whether his opinion about hybrid or valve amps are based on any empirical experience. As to why I often recommend a hybrid integrated amp or a valve preamp/SS power amp combination, that is based on owning different types of amps and also home auditioning many more. Below link was something I posted 11 years ago regarding how I ended up with a Unison Research Unico for a few years. I guess the big flaw in my selection process was that I used my ears God forbid, rather than base my decision on measurements.
http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=amp&n=15459&highlight=audio+nirvana&search_url=%2Fcgi%2Fsearch.mpl%3Fsearchtext%3Delp%26b%3DAND%26topic%3D%26topics_only%3DN%26author%3Dflood2%26date1%3D%26date2%3D%26slowmessage%3D%26sort%3Ddate%26sortOrder%3DDESC%26forum%3Dvinyl
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