Advice on budget speaker Cable?

[Al ears]

Resistance in the lengths we are talking about is pretty meaningless since the output impedance of a source component is much lower than the input impedence of the receiving amplifier therefore the cable resistance is not going to affect the signal unless it is inconceivably high and, with copper or silver wire of the diameter normally used, it isn't.

PS: You haven't mentioned the 'nasties'

Al, Can I recommend you google 'transmission line theory' and 'cable characteristic impedance'. There is a bit more going on with phone lines than just the resistance of the cable.

But getting back to the original point about speaker cables, you have made exactly the point yourself - in an amplifier / cable / speaker system, the source resistance (amp) and sink resistance (speaker) are both extremely low. Cable resistance, even if very low by normal standards, can have an effect.

I think we can read all the articles we want, many conflicting, but basically over the line lengths we are talking about and for the sort of cable the OP is talking about both resistance and impedence are of negligible relevance.

It will not matter a jot to the sound of his system if the speaker cables are 3m long or 5m long.

We often have posters on here saying ' I have speakers connected one with a 2m length and the other with 3m, is it going to make any difference to the sound?', and the answer is no.

It's all too easy to get wrapped up in physics and reality.

Al,

My transmission line / characteristic impedance comment was in reference to your friend at BT who couldn't measure cable attenuation properly.

There are people who post on this forum who are convinced that two identical (electrically) cables with different sounding names sound different. They don't.

Equally, there are people who when presented with link after link showing that the only thing that really does matter with speaker cables is resistance, dismiss it out of hand.

I would agree that it is very unlikely that the difference between 3m and 5m is audible, but at some point a difference in length will be audible. Depends on all sorts of things, but the difference is real. Which is more than can be said for switching cables from 'anniversary this' to 'anniversary that'.

Not being a specialist in electronics I would have to agree. I would seriously question though the 'difference in length will be audible'.

Not in any typical hifi set-up I guess would be the answer.

My home theatre set-up has identical Quad speakers as fronts and rears however the rears are connected with about 7 meters of cable and the fronts by 2 meter lengths of the same cable. Presumably if I suddenly changed the rears to be the fronts I am not going to hear any discernible difference.

 

[Matte]

Dissimilar cable lengths, in a home environment, a these frequencies will make no difference. Any excess cable should be none inductively wound, although again it won't make any real wold differnce it's just good practice.

The rule of thumb that thicker cable is better, to reduce resistive losses is ok.

BUT, it's almost impossible to do cable ( or any comparisons ) on your own, you need a friend to change the component to do a ABX comparison. Conformation bias will always be present, if you change the component yourself.

Frankly, any none blind comparitive test can only be a subjective appraisal

This is why I believe WHFSAV got into the HDMI debacle.

 

[Rowan1981]

I know this question will most likely bring up a whole new debate. ..

As I see The Audioquest slip 16/4 can also be used as a bi-wirable cable - so what are you views on Bi-Wiring ? would it be worth paying the little extra for the slip 16/4 to Bi-Wire my Q Acoustics with the Audioquest slip 16/4?

Cheers

 

[andyjm]

As I see The Audioquest slip 16/4 can also be used as a bi-wirable cable - so what are you views on Bi-Wiring ? would it be worth paying the little extra for the slip 16/4 to Bi-Wire my Q Acoustics with the Audioquest slip 16/4?

Cheers

No, it would be a waste of time. Run the cables in parallel by all means, but driving the woofer and tweeter with separate cables is electrical nonsense.

Oh, and use the flat plate jumpers that came with the speakers to short the connectors together on the speakers. There are some who think the magic in speaker cables means you should replace the jumpers with speaker wire. You shouldn't.

 

[andyjm]

Dissimilar cable lengths, in a home environment, a these frequencies will make no difference. Any excess cable should be none inductively wound, although again it won't make any real wold differnce it's just good practice.

The rule of thumb that thicker cable is better, to reduce resistive losses is ok.

BUT, it's almost impossible to do cable ( or any comparisons ) on your own, you need a friend to change the component to do a ABX comparison. Conformation bias will always be present, if you change the component yourself.

Frankly, any none blind comparitive test can only be a subjective appraisal

This is why I believe WHFSAV got into the HDMI debacle.

All good advice except the 'non inductively wound' - which is actually good advice, but implies a coil of speaker cable is a bad thing. Well, actually it is a bad thing because it implies you have too much of it, but that's another issue.

Unless you are running separate conductors, speaker cable is generally two-core. If you make a coil out of two core cable where the cores are carrying equal and opposite currents (as in a speaker cable) the magnetic effect will cancel out and the coil of cable is non-inductive.

 

[Matte]

[/quote]

All good advice except the 'non inductively wound' - which is actually good advice, but implies a coil of speaker cable is a bad thing. Well, actually it is a bad thing because it implies you have too much of it, but that's another issue.

Unless you are running separate conductors, speaker cable is generally two-core. If you make a coil out of two core cable where the cores are carrying equal and opposite currents (as in a speaker cable) the magnetic effect will cancel out and the coil of cable is non-inductive.

[/quote]

Well I think I understand your first paragraph? I gave good advice and you think that if there is too much it should be wound non-inductively, but having too much cable IS a bad thing.

I'll clarify what I'm trying to say, everyone will probably have a little extra cable and best practice is not to coil it up tightly.

Different lengths at these frequencies is not that important.

Cable is never non inductive as straight wire has inductance, although again it's frequency dependant .

But the important thing to stress is that conformation bias, literally means that making comparative tests between components ' unless the differences are huge', let's say with some speaker designs and headphones, is so difficult on your own.

This is why it always annoys me that in some magazines that I respect, still have individuals offering opinions on the effects of, for example, of using different feet under components.

There must always be a blind ABX test.

Remember, there are people who think they see a difference in HDMI cables, this is impossible when the technology behind the information transfer is understood. So, the interesting result is why people perceive a difference.

My own opinion on the effect of differing cable and their effects is unclear, I've not done any blind tests. When I was younger, I thought I heard a difference between solid and stranded cable, with what I understand about conformation bias now, I'm not so sure. I stuck with solid.

Remember Linn's push that all demo rooms should be single speaker rooms, great in theory, but blind tests showed the the effect of a few speakers left in the test room, was inaudible.