Advice For One New to Hi Fi

CarmeloS

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Hello. First, I searched around under Hi Fi looking for posts with the components and speakers I am interested in and didn't see anything quite on the topic I had hoped for. My apologies if I missed the obvious.

I am a young musician looking to get into Hi Fi. I'm trying to form a cost effective budget that will still wow me and be wonderful to live with. There is not an abundance of Hi Fi stores in my area and would require quite a bit of driving so I hoped to gather opinion to aid in my search.

I am going to be using my setup for vinyl and iTunes. Mostly vinyl once my collection gets going but I'm sure I'd like to be able to plug into my music library as well. No home theatre just music.

I listen to early soul music, old spiritual gospel and blues, a little folk, some harlem and new orleans jazz.

Although I have no knowledge of the matter, from what I gather from internet browsing is that I would need to spend at least 2,400 USD or around 1,600 pounds to get into the entry level of hi fi stereo that has the type of sound I'm after.

I'd like a warm, lush, powerful, and natural sound. It seems like I'd enjoy a nice soundstage but I think I'd prefer floorstanding over bookshelf.

--- I was considering a Rega RP1, Rega Brio-R, and B&W 684. Although I've seen reviews in favor of the Rega RS3 and also some Tannoy and Monitor Audio. ---

It was my hope that I might get suggestions to my setup or pros and cons to different speakers. If they are all the same quality level then I wonder what the character differences are between the companies. Will the brio-r be sufficient to drive the speakers at a low to medium listening level? Other things necessary besides cables and power conditioner? Performance pack necessary on the RP1? I would rather spend more money and be completely content with a marvelous system than to be on mark and not feel that I've achieved the sound I'm after. The point of the whole thing for me is to create an extravegant, expansive sound that I can escape into and expand, strengthen, and nourish my musical mind. I wish I could afford a good vacuum tube amp, but that doesn't seem to be the case - later in life perhaps, I've got plenty of time.

Thank you very much in advance to anyone who takes the time in their day to read my post and give me honest feedback.
 

CarmeloS

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I was browsing and if I could get a vacuum tube amp for under 975 pounds, roughly 1500 USD that would be great. Then I'd still need a phono stage for vinyl and digital to analog for itunes, correct? I saw Yaqin tube stage stereo amps under that price but I don't know if they are any good, I would definitely want it to sound much better than the Rega Brio-R
 

John Duncan

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Hello CarmeloS, and welcome to the forums. Normally I'd suggest that you could get a starter system that would give you loads of pleasure for less than £1,600, but I notice you mention dollars - are you in the States? This can have a terrible impact on the prices we normally use as benchmarks in the UK...
 

tino

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Don't forget to look at hybrid amps (valve preamp + semiconductor power amp stage). These might be more up your street if you need a powerful sound with a hint of warmth. Unison Reseach (Primo) and Pathos (Classic One) are highly rated hybrid amps although you would be looking a used or ex-dem examples to fit into your price range.
 

matthewpiano

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Worth looking at Icon Audio, based in Leicester. They do a full range of well liked valve amps and start at reasonable prices.

Another option would be the Sugden Mystro amp. Fabulous piece of kit - very organic and immersive sound and works beautifully with Focal speakers. Mystro + Focal 714V would be a great combination. Then perhaps consider a pre-owned Rega P3-24 which will comfortably out-perform an RP1. For a D/A converter I'd suggest trying the Musical Fidelity V-DAC II or, if you can stretch, the M1 DAC from the same maker.

Alternatively, I'd recommend looking at Creek. If you can pick up a Destiny or Destiny 2 either used or ex-dem it will give you a very valve like sound but with good, real world power.

Hope these suggestions help. Good though the Rega amp is for the money, the Creek or Sugden would give you a huge amount more.
 

CarmeloS

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Thank you Tino and Matthew for the amp suggestions, for the sound I am after do you have any comments as far as the speakers go. I don't know much about any of these companies or their products. The B&W 684 looked like what I might like, the Rega RS3 looked ok too. I wouldn't be as eager to buy Tannoy or Monitor Audio, but not for any logical reason. I did record in a studio that used Tannoy monitors though and I thought they sounded great but just a little undefined or thin like paper, they might not have been pushed enough.
 

matthewpiano

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Paired with the right amp I'd suggest looking at the KEF Q series range as well as the B&Ws. The B&W 68x range has been around a long time but, the little 686s apart, can still compete very well with newer models from other manufacturers.

As a more affordable floorstander option the Dali Zensor 5s are excellent. Like the Zensor 1 standmount version I use, they are very organic, fluid and involving sounding - more natural than the B&W sound.
 

tino

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What about some Klipsch Heresy speakers (II or III) ... you should be able to pick those up quite cheaply in the US. You could get away with a low power valve amp with those.
 
A

Anonymous

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If you're buying from the US, i'd get the following and be done with it:

Nad C326bee $600

PSB T5 Floostander $1000

Rega RP1 $450

Parasound z-phono $350

$2400 in total! and yes, try to haggle a good deal to get the price lower and cover the entire expense with speaker cables and interconnects!
 

shooter

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CarmeloS said:
I was browsing and if I could get a vacuum tube amp for under 975 pounds, roughly 1500 USD that would be great. Then I'd still need a phono stage for vinyl and digital to analog for itunes, correct?

How about a Peachtree iDecco? Well under 1500$ has digital inputs for PC, analog input for a tt and 40 watts of power, enough for efficient speakers, something of + 90db would be ideal.

You would like floorstanders, most will need some room around them to work well, could you tell us more about your room?
 

jaxwired

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Since you are in the USA, go to audiogon.com and buy used equipment. Only buy from people with lots of feedback. Audiogon will allow you to build an incredible system with that budget if you choose carefully. Also, you can sell anything you don't like and recoup all or most of your money.
 

SpursGator

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A couple of suggestions for the OP. Keep in mind that I don't have much knowledge about vinyl and will assume you will buy a phono stage and need an analogue input for it.

First, you absolutely must consider used equipment, especially electronics. There is so much good stuff moving around and you can get into very serious hifi territory this way quite easily.

Second, you need to be spending more on the amp than anything else. Ignore the advice that says to spread your budget equally. As long as your system is to a certain level elsewhere, your amp is the central purchase and will determine whether jaws will drop.

2A: If you listen to digital music, a good DAC playing uncompressed music is really important. Digital music generally sounds terrible unless you take care. But with a good DAC, even Spotify can sound pretty stunning.

Third, you are making two key mistakes (this is purely my opinion) in your system design spec. First of all, at this price, a tube amp is a huge mistake. You can just barely buy an audiophile tube amp at this price, while you are a tier or two above the ordinary with solid state. People can debate tube v. solid state all day long at the high end, but not at this price level.

I also think you are making an error looking at floorstanders. Again, at this price level, you would get so much more with standmounters. Floorstanders keep you on the bottom tier of decent speakers, whereas with standmounters you could get something a cut above that, and create much more special and better-imaged music, with a teeny bit less bass. Plus, since floorstanders are going to make your amp work harder, you actually get a little bit less from your amp, decibel for decibel, dollar for dollar.

In particular, even if you disagree on either point by itself, the combination that you are flirting with - a very low power tube amp combined with inexpensive floorstanders - is not a recipe for a good system, to say the least.

Two of the suggestions floating around this thread - the NAD236Bee (which I own BTW) and the B&W 600-series - are very bad ones IMHO. I like the NAD but to spend 2-3 grand and have this be your amp?

The B&W 600 series are perfectly okay, but they are power-hungry and - again, for me - somewhat tonally flat. They don't fit with the sound you are describing.

If I had to put together a system on your rough budget in the US, I would do something like this (not necessarily exactly this but just giving you ideas):

A used Classe CA101 power amp (there's one on eBay right now for $899)

Peachtree NovaPre DAC/Tube Pre amp ($999 new)

KEF Q300 speakers ($649 new)

Good stands for the KEFs ($150)

That system ($2,700 before tax, shipping, and interconnects) would sound absolutely ridiculous, far beyond any suggestion made here so far. You achieve it by buying competant, but not expensive, speakers, then going to the used market and getting a monster power amp that is way above your level, then buying decent Sabre-based DAC with a tube preamp, volume control, and an analogue input for a future phono stage.

If you really want floorstanders, you could use KEF Q500s instead, which are actually $100 cheaper (check out the differences between the speakers and reflect on why).

You could also look at used integrated amps and take the same approach, but then you only need something like the Cambridge DACMagic (saves $400) or the Benchmark DAC1 (a huge step up from all DACs mentioned here for $1000), since you could feed your phono to the intergrated directly. But you lose a lot of your leverage. Feeding a power amp directly with a volume controlled DAC is a great way to go, since there are many great power amps available used - for example when I found the Classe above I also found a McIntosh MC2105 for $1,237! You could listen to that amp through the MA Bronze BX2 and it would still fluff your hair.

Bottom line: Go find a killer solid state amp in the $1000 range and a great DAC with a volume control to feed it. Don't worry about the speakers too much - once you get your amp try to match it with the best speakers you can afford...even if you only have a few hundred bucks left over for them.

Hope this is helpful.

Kevin
 

richardw42

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How do you want to access iTunes ? You can attach a DAC to your computer but why not go wireless with a Squeezebox Touch, that has a pretty good DAC.

The Rega system with the RS3 should be a good start. But as you are a musician surely a lot of systems really might not be adequate for you.

If you would go for stand mounts on a good pair of stands, I'd really consider the new AVI ADM9s. Available from AVI direct with worldwide shipping for £1375. Hopefully a demo near you might be available. Nothing I've had comes anywhere close to these speakers.

Attach the SBT via optical. Then a TT and phono stage and you're sorted. Worth considering.
 

CarmeloS

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Thank you all so much for the suggestions on everything! I'm glad you mentioned audiogon.com because there isn't much used equipment around where I am.

The room is just on the small side of medium, rectangular with a vaulted ceiling. I will be moving and I'll find a place with a medium size dedicated living room. More likely I'll find a flat with a living room that I convert into my studio and put the stereo in there.
 

CarmeloS

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Would Vienna Acoustics or Rega speakers approach the description of the sound I am after paired with a good amplifier? I'm overwhelmed by the amount of speaker companies. I figured you all might know the character of their speakers and might be able to help me focus on a few companies. I think I will go bookshelf, as I'd rather get higher quality and lose a little bass. I don't think I'll lose fullness of sound in a smaller area
 

matthewpiano

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Carmelo S - For fullness of sound, paired with excellent portrayal of textures and instrumental and vocal timbres, try the PMC DB1i speakers paired with the Arcam A18. It is an excellent combination, particularly for jazz, classical and acoustic music, but very capable with most genres. It also offers the opportunity to upgrade by adding an Arcam power amp later on.
 

shooter

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If your now looking at bookshelfs i'd suggest going down the solid state route rather than the valve one. In general bookshelfs are less efficient and harder to drive, this equates to more watts and more current from an amp, probably more than valves can give. I'm not sure why that is the case and exceptions to the rule can be found, your just reducing your options going with valves and bookshelfs.

Saying that your room could well take floorstanders, medium sized, i'm guessing around 3x4 meters? That would be big enough.
 

CarmeloS

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yeah if that is the minimum square metres then I'll be fine.

There is a place about 50 minutes away from me that has a rega rp1 brio-r and rs3 setup with a DAC too, I think I'm going to go there and listen so I can have a hi fi system to base considerations on, most of the hi fi quality dealings I've had have been recording in the studio on smaller setups
 

lindsayt

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CarmeloS said:
Yes, John, unfortunately for this matter I am currently located in the states.

Unfortunately?????

You lucky lucky git!

I can think of no country in the world that is better for buying great sounding hi-fi at reasonable prices.

I live in the UK and a lot of my hi-fi shopping in recent years has been from US eBay. From a hi-fi point of view I wish I lived in the States to pick up Craiglslist, hi-fi forum and garage sale bargains - on top of the eBay ones.

Speakers: look out for classics from Altec, Bozak, EV, JBL, Klipsch, Magnepan, Martin Logan. They all produced some great sounding speakers. Buy whatever you come across first that's at an iresistable price. Amps from the Sony ES / Elite, Pioneer Exclusive, Onkyo Integra, Sansui AU-9xxx, Kenwood Lxx ranges (they generally come with good quality built-in phono amplification). Or possibly a Krell or Mark Levinson classic. TT's: a good direct drive from towards the top end of a Japanese manufacturers range from the 1970's to 1980's, fitted with a nice new Denon 110 or 103 cartridge (to keep the budget down).

I totally disagree with anyone that says you should prioritise your dollars in any particular way as it all depends what you can find for what price.

I don't agree with all these recommendations for UK made kit for someone living in the States. It's like a Parisian asking where they should go for a top quality meal and being advised to go to a pub with a carvery when they could be advised to go to the Georges V.
 

WishTree

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CarmeloS said:
Yes, John, unfortunately for this matter I am currently located in the states.

Wow.. By now you might have alreeady realised how lucky you are. I just want to move to USA for few years just to enjoy the HiFi at such brilliant bargain prices :)

Anyways.. I have recently got to know this website http://stereomojo.com/

You might be knowing them already. Please have a look at it as they have categories for various price ranges.

I am very intrigued with Tekton M-Lore speakers and where ever I read, there are only great reviews and they are at such a great price. Give it a look.

I would look at used amps as generally they work alright for longer times and there is not so much new technology that has come into Class A/B amplification.

DAC might be the most tricky one but most of the sound that you hear will be the character of the loudpseaker (majorly) and partly the amplifier and very minorly the DAC (Ofcourse, if amp and speaker are transparent / resolving then you hear the DAC qualities more but I would say it is less likely)

Please try to audition before you buy or atleast buy from the shops that accept returns.

Though not related but I bought a DAC (Grant Fidelity TubeDAC) - great price and great reviews. However the transformer hums like crazy. Well, atleast I am used to kit where the transformers do not make sound (NONE)

Grant Fidelity offers no returns but only repairs if they think that the product is defective but the shipping needs to be borne by the buyer. So it would be a night mare to ship back from this side of the Pond only to figure out I paid even more money to get to know that Transformer hum is normal for them.

As is, I sold it for half price in a week's time and that is the end of that story. May be I am too picky and some are more resilient to such minor challenges but it is good to know, I guess!

So please be aware of these potential challenges and keep the exit options open :)
 

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