active speakers ?

[pauldownton1979]

Hi not been on here for a while...

Im looking for a new system. i play all my music through my dell laptop these days via itunes ( wav) or spotify (free) i have a budget of 4-500 gbp im either looking at a decent 2nd amp plus dac and some decent standmounter's. i was thinking a marantz pm 6002/3 or 4 a dac such as cambridge audio xs and hope to have enough left to spend £250 - 300 on speakers which im open with at the minute but ill probably have a look at some dali models because i had some in the past. the question is howmuch do i need to spend to get some active speakers that would do all three jobs in one - without compromising on sound quality ? i dont know much about them, i have never owned any and most of the ones i have looked at seem marketed at desk top listening, any advice appreciated..

cheers

 

[pauldownton1979]

that's 2nd HAND amp btw

 

[davedotco]

Uk music/pro audio dealer Digital Village (DV247) are currently selling Yamaha HS8 active monitors for just £378 pair.

A super pair of speakers for very sensible money, beware though, these are serious speakers requiring proper stands and correct positioning, these are not desktop speakers!

You will need a dac though, depending on whether you are happy using the software volume on the laptop or not, will decide what you need. For preference I would use an Audioengine Dac 1, which has basic preamp functions, and a decent headphone amp for about £130-140.

This is right at the top of your price range but outstanding value, in my opinion way better than conventional amp/speaker pairings anywhere near the price. (But I would say that, I am a big fan of active speakers at this level.....*good*)

 

[d_a_n1979]

You'll not get true active speakers for your budget... You could, however, get studio monitors as mentioned above but beware, they're monitors and not true hifi speakers and won't give you the same sound as a Hifi set up would!

You can consider powered speakers (one speaker houses all the technology and the amp and that in turn powers the other speakers known as the slave).

Something along the lines of Q Acoustics BT3's or Audioengine A5's...

Personally I'd stick with separates and get a decent 2nd hand amp (Marantz PM6005 would be ideal with its built in DAC) or something along the lines of a NAD C320BEE/C326BEE. You'd need a DAC for these but decent DAC's can be had for not a lot. The FiiO D3 DAC is a little belter at c£25 and highly reviewed/respected...

Speakers, stands (if you go for standmount speakers, cables etc and all be bought 2nd as well and easy enough...

Would be handy to know what music you generally listen to, what room you'd be putting this system into and how you'd have it laid out etc...

 

[BigH]

You'll not get true active speakers for your budget... You could, however, get studio monitors as mentioned above but beware, they're monitors and not true hifi speakers and won't give you the same sound as a Hifi set up would!

You can consider powered speakers (one speaker houses all the technology and the amp and that in turn powers the other speakers known as the slave).

Something along the lines of Q Acoustics BT3's or Audioengine A5's...

Personally I'd stick with separates and get a decent 2nd hand amp (Marantz PM6005 would be ideal with its built in DAC) or something along the lines of a NAD C320BEE/C326BEE. You'd need a DAC for these but decent DAC's can be had for not a lot. The FiiO D3 DAC is a little belter at c£25 and highly reviewed/respected...

Speakers, stands (if you go for standmount speakers, cables etc and all be bought 2nd as well and easy enough...

Would be handy to know what music you generally listen to, what room you'd be putting this system into and how you'd have it laid out etc...

what are you talking about?

 

[davedotco]

You'll not get true active speakers for your budget... You could, however, get studio monitors as mentioned above but beware, they're monitors and not true hifi speakers and won't give you the same sound as a Hifi set up would!

You can consider powered speakers (one speaker houses all the technology and the amp and that in turn powers the other speakers known as the slave).

Something along the lines of Q Acoustics BT3's or Audioengine A5's...

Personally I'd stick with separates and get a decent 2nd hand amp (Marantz PM6005 would be ideal with its built in DAC) or something along the lines of a NAD C320BEE/C326BEE. You'd need a DAC for these but decent DAC's can be had for not a lot. The FiiO D3 DAC is a little belter at c£25 and highly reviewed/respected...

Speakers, stands (if you go for standmount speakers, cables etc and all be bought 2nd as well and easy enough...

Would be handy to know what music you generally listen to, what room you'd be putting this system into and how you'd have it laid out etc...

What a complete and total load of rubbish. In order.

What on earth makes you think the Yamahas are not true active speakers, get your facts right before spouting such drivel.

And no, they do not sound like most budget "hi-fi" speakers as they are more powerful, have greater clarity, punch and dynamic range and have tight clean bass well beyond the capacity of the other speakers you mention.

The powered speakers you mention are, surprisingly, exactly what you say they are, nice all in one desktop solutions, ideal for non critical use on a computer or mobile device. They are rather expensive for what they do, but most importantly are not remotely in the same class as the Yamahas.

You might prefer the sounds of the 'conventional' equipment you recommend, an awful lot of people like the overwarm, boomy and bloated sound of such equipment (my opinion obviously), thats up to you (and them), some of us do not.

But you really should not rubbish products that you know nothing about and don't understand, it makes you look silly.

 

[JoelSim]

Depending on how much you listen to Spotify, the best thing you could do would be to go Premium. Then get some Q Acoustics or some Nocs NS2 and a Cambridge Audio DAC. IMO.

 

[d_a_n1979]

Why is what I've said rubbish?

the Yamahas are active speakers shut they're not Hifi speakers, that what I said!

theyre studio monitors which yes, sound fantastic in a close field set up but for hifi, they're not as well suited

Plus us who the hell do you think you are writing what you have and completely belittling what I've said, if you don't agree fair enough but put it more politely and lay out your thoughts and advice

[EDITED BY MODS - HOUSE RULES. Normally that would be an immediate temp ban, Dan, but I am mindful of previous behaviour, both yours and that of the person you are replying to.]

 

[pauldownton1979]

oh heck i've started something here..... thanks for the advice. so to answer a few questions..

I listen to most types of music, i like finding new stuff everyday, alot of it under the radar ( hence spotify comes in useful ) mostly i listen to rock music.

the system will be setup in my front room. I'm about 6 - 7 feet from the listening position, as my room is long and narrow. the speakers will be either side of my standard size fireplace, and they will only have about 6" space to the wall. as for the spotify question, i have actually gone premium for 3 months because they have a deal on.

someone mentioned the powered speaker with slave set up - which please forgive my not knowing sod all ... was what i was thinking of in the way of active speakers, so sorry for that, but like others have alluded to the only ones i can find seem very small and set up for computer desks, which is definitely not what im looking for. The last speakers i had were castle pembrokes which as some of you know - are massive stand mounts, and they sounded great till one died of old age

i dont know much about the monitor studio speakers you speak of, would there be somewhere i could demo them ?

Thanks again for the input.

 

[Gavvo]

With that space you're going to want to avoid active monitors per say. The Yamaha HS8's are excellent for what they are but they won't flatter anything you play/listen to. The offer a completely flat response and bring out anything and everything. Which isn't always a good thing. Even then, to get the most from them you need them correctly positioned, a good 2 feet from the wall if they're rear ported and the room will need to be treated because it will make your music sound poor.

The best thing to do is to buy 'bad' monitors. Some of the lower priced monitors will have a more polished sound as it were. Take a look at some reviews and find out how they compare. Something like the Behringer Truths will give a bright high end and a solid bottom end to match and they're front ported so you won't need to worry about positioning against the wall.

 

[davedotco]

oh heck i've started something here..... thanks for the advice. so to answer a few questions..

I listen to most types of music, i like finding new stuff everyday, alot of it under the radar ( hence spotify comes in useful ) mostly i listen to rock music.

the system will be setup in my front room. I'm about 6 - 7 feet from the listening position, as my room is long and narrow. the speakers will be either side of my standard size fireplace, and they will only have about 6" space to the wall. as for the spotify question, i have actually gone premium for 3 months because they have a deal on.

someone mentioned the powered speaker with slave set up - which please forgive my not knowing sod all ... was what i was thinking of in the way of active speakers, so sorry for that, but like others have alluded to the only ones i can find seem very small and set up for computer desks, which is definitely not what im looking for. The last speakers i had were castle pembrokes which as some of you know - are massive stand mounts, and they sounded great till one died of old age

i dont know much about the monitor studio speakers you speak of, would there be somewhere i could demo them ?

Thanks again for the input.

Sorry for stirring up the argument but you were, and still are, being told rubbish.

So I will try and explain as clearly as I can, apologies for starting with the simple stuff.

To get the best sound from a computer you need a dac, probably usb, an amplifier and some speakers. In 'purist' hi-fo terms this would be all separate components, but when you realise that the bigest single cost in dacs and amplifiers is the casework, separating everything becomes unreasonably expensive.

So, given a £500 budget it makes sense not to buy stuff you do not need. Ie if you are only going to use a computer as a source (for the foreseable future anyway) then you do not need all the facilities of an integrated amp, particularly all the input switching and the volume control, why spend money on them?

A simple usb dac, ideally asyncronous, is all that you need at this point, obviously you need amplifiers so build them into the speakers and save money.

Now this can be done in two different ways, firstly you can take a normal pair of (passive) hi-fi speakers, build in a stereo amp, often with a dac, into one of them and link the 'master' speaker to a 'slave' using a length of speaker cable. Do that right as with the Q Acoustics or the Audioengine and you end up with a nice, complete solution that is essentially plug and play.

Secondly you can look at 'fully active' speakers, these are fundamentally different in that an electronic crossover is used followed by separate amplifiers for each drive unit. This is more expensive than 'powered' speakers but it is no coincidence that top of the line models from speaker companies like ATC and PMC use this configuration.

There is a difference in the sound between active speakers and 'hi-fi' speakers, which I described in rather flowery language in my earlier post, some people like the difference and much prefer the active approach.

I'll leave it there for the moment, but to give you an idea of the quality of the Yamaha, take a look at this....

http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/music-production/speakers/hs_series/hs8/?mode=model

Feel free to ask any questions, i'll do my best.

 

[d_a_n1979]

^^^

Ban me

[EDITED BY MODS - who have no opinion on the matter, but do on the use of foul language. And no.]

 

[davedotco]

With that space you're going to want to avoid active monitors per say. The Yamaha HS8's are excellent for what they are but they won't flatter anything you play/listen to. The offer a completely flat response and bring out anything and everything. Which isn't always a good thing. Even then, to get the most from them you need them correctly positioned, a good 2 feet from the wall if they're rear ported and the room will need to be treated because it will make your music sound poor.

The best thing to do is to buy 'bad' monitors. Some of the lower priced monitors will have a more polished sound as it were. Take a look at some reviews and find out how they compare. Something like the Behringer Truths will give a bright high end and a solid bottom end to match and they're front ported so you won't need to worry about positioning against the wall.

More nonsense, what is it about today.......!

The OP is listening at a distance in a reasonably sized room, the HS8 has an 8inch bass driver and 75 - 45 watts of direct couped amplifier power, in what way is that a problem? The control that this gives along with the rear panel bass adjustment, means that it can be used closer to a wall tham most hi-fi speakers. The porting is irrelevant unless within a few inches of a boundary and room treatment will only be necessary if you want to play at studio levels.

The idea that they will somehow be too good and that "bad monitors" should be chosen is also absolutely laughable, what on earth are you thinking. Hi-Fi is short for hi-fidelity, listen to the music, not the speakers!

 

[Anderson]

Calm down ladies.

 

[iQ Speakers]

I for one had a little run in with Davedotco and I don't always side with his tone, however I suggest it's driven from knowledge and his frustration that in his experience his recommendations offer a better performance/cost ratio. I for one looked straight to those Yamahas. I shall be pointing my brother to have a look at them. I think he talks a lot of sence just sometimes in an abrasive manner, shows passion keep it up.

 

[MajorFubar]

Another recommendation for the Yamahas from me. I was very tempted when I was putting together my home studio, in preference to the almost ubiquitous Rokits which to be frank I didn't really like the sound of. Sadly I couldn't raise the funds at the time and I ended up with Alesis monitors which are ok, but nowhere near on par with the HS8s.

 

[davedotco]

I for one had a little run in with Davedotco and I don't always side with his tone, however I suggest it's driven from knowledge and his frustration that in his experience his recommendations offer a better performance/cost ratio. I for one looked straight to those Yamahas. I shall be pointing my brother to have a look at them. I think he talks a lot of sence just sometimes in an abrasive manner, shows passion keep it up.

It's very odd on here sometimes, today being a good example.

Some folks seem intent on getting involved with subjects they know nothing about and giving very poor, factually erroneous advice to people looking for help.

Don't like active monitors? No problem, it's your choice. Mostly I don't like the bulk of mass market budget and mid-fi setups that are discussed every day on here, I get some stick on this from time to time but I fight my corner and try to offer explanations as to why this is the case, that's my choice too.

What I do not do is parrot myths and miss-understandings or worse, make up entirely spurious arguments to 'prove' my points as was the case above.

Hi-fi is changing, computers and streaming are changing everything about hi-fi and conventional hi-fi really is struggling to keep up. So many people now get everything effectively from one source, they do not need an amplifier with half a dozen inputs, neither do they need another volume control when they have a perfectly good one in their software player.

Sure, a lot of people like the comfort of a nice amp and speaker combo with recognizable highly regarded brand names but an awful lot of people coming into the hobbie for the first time do not. Streaming uncompressed audio from iTunes or similar, even good quality on line streaming can provide excellent quality music in the home, the need for a rack full of equipment is diminishing every day. Times are changing.

 

[steve_1979]

+1 here for the Yamaha HS6 / HS8. Great speakers for the money.

Actually they're great speakers for any money but being so cheap is just a huge plus on top of having excellent sound quality.

 

[davedotco]

+1 here for the Yamaha HS6 / HS8. Great speakers for the money.

Actually they're great speakers for any money but being so cheap is just a huge plus on top of having excellent sound quality.

The HS6 steve? Is that a new model?

Interestingly Yamaha call them powered studio monitors, though they are of course fully active.

My only concern, re-reading the OP's post, is that The HS8 might be a bit big and powerful for his setup, perhaps the, ahem, HS7 might be a better choice........*unknw*

 

[steve_1979]

Oops. 7.

Or should that be the HS6.5 ?

 

[davedotco]

Oops. 7.

Or should that be the HS6.5 ?

Only if the bigger model is the HS8.25.......!

 

[iQ Speakers]

Abrasive Moi?

only 240 grit!

 

[lpv]

Have my HS8 about 6" from rear wall and plenty room on both sides.. sound? SUPERB... for less than £400??!! wow.. these would be good for a £1000.. clarity, bass quality & balance.. a truly great pair of actives..

 

[lindsayt]

Sorry for stirring up the argument but you were, and still are, being told rubbish.

So I will try and explain as clearly as I can, apologies for starting with the simple stuff.

To get the best sound from a computer you need a dac, probably usb, an amplifier and some speakers. In 'purist' hi-fo terms this would be all separate components, but when you realise that the bigest single cost in dacs and amplifiers is the casework, separating everything becomes unreasonably expensive...

Looking at the last 5 amplifiers I've bought (for between £26 and £1650). The single biggest cost in every single one of them was not the casework. The single biggest cost was either the power supply transformers or the output valves.

Maybe that's a good general guide to whether an amplifier is half decent or not? Whether the casework was the single biggest cost or not.

 

[pauldownton1979]

so what can i expect from these monitors from yamaha ? what will i experience playing trampled down love or kashmir cranked up ?