A little help needed with a Dual 505 turntable...

[admin_exported]

Hey i have a Dual 505 turntable and I am just re-setting it up, it hasn't been set up for about 20 years since my dad used it... It came with a Ortofon VMS 20E cartridge ready installed, but the stylus had broken so i replaced the stylus with a VMS 3 mk II on to the VMS 20E cartridge. Because of this mix, i am not sure what to set the tracking force to, as i am unsure wether it depends on the cartridge used is or on the stylus used. So i am hoping if someone could point me in the right direction and help with this dilema.

(on a side note, i was thinking about "upgrading" to a Pro-ject Genie sometime soon, is this worth it or will the results from the Dual be almost as good once ive set it up?)

Many thanks

 

[chebby]

Print these instructions off for a start....

http://freespace.virgin.net/butter.wince/dual505-2/dual505-2_operating_instructions.html

Recommended tracking force for VMS-3E here.....

http://www.henleydesigns.co.uk/product.asp?ProductID=46

1.7 - 2.3 grammes

Also after 20 years it is highly likely you will need a new drive belt. (Unless the old one was powdered with talc then stored carefully without being tensioned.) There are plently of google hits for people selling replacement CS-505 drive belts.

The instructions, I linked to above, tell you how to release the platter and how to replace the belt. (The note about ensuring the matt side of the belt faces outwards is important.)

Ensure that the suspension is sound. (Push the centre spindle down gently with your finger then release and it should have a nice healthy bounce and should look level all around the edges of the subchassis when compared to the edge of the plinth.)

If there is no bounce at all then the transit screws may be done up tight. Just undo them completely (clockwise with a coin) until the deck is bouncy, then afterwards tighten them (again clockwise) so they don't vibrate.

 

[gpi]

Personally I wouldn't spend any more time and money on this deck. The Dual 505 was good in its day (I owned one for over 20 years) but there are better budget decks around now, such as the Pro-Jects, which will perform better. If it was fully functioning, fair enough.

 

[chebby]

gpi:Personally I wouldn't spend any more time and money on this deck. The Dual 505 was good in its day (I owned one for over 20 years) but there are better budget decks around now, such as the Pro-Jects, which will perform better. If it was fully functioning, fair enough.

Thorens may disagree with you especially as some of their current decks employ the same arm....

I had a CS-505 for quite some time (after my Sansui SR-222 and before the RB-300 Planar 3 came out in the early 1980s) and it was a good deck then and should be a good deck now if everything is working OK.

Far better for the OP to use the CS-505 whilst saving up for something better than an entry level Project.

 

[Anonymous]

cheers! thanks so much Chebby! So the tracking force depends on the stylus, not the cartridge? it doesnt matter that i have a VMS 20e cart with VMS 3 stylus, it is just the stylus that dictates the tracking force? thanks

 

[chebby]

ubercooldave:cheers! thanks so much Chebby! So the tracking force depends on the stylus, not the cartridge? it doesnt matter that i have a VMS 20e cart with VMS 3 stylus, it is just the stylus that dictates the tracking force? thanks

Yes, what dictates the tracking weight will be things like stylus profile and cantilever compliance and tip mass. These are all properties of the stylus rather than the cartridge body/generator.

 

[gpi]

chebby:gpi:Personally I wouldn't spend any more time and money on this deck. The Dual 505 was good in its day (I owned one for over 20 years) but there are better budget decks around now, such as the Pro-Jects, which will perform better. If it was fully functioning, fair enough.

Thorens may disagree with you especially as some of their current decks employ the same arm....

I had a CS-505 for quite some time (after my Sansui SR-222 and before the RB-300 Planar 3 came out in the early 1980s) and it was a good deck then and should be a good deck now if everything is working OK.

Far better for the OP to use the CS-505 whilst saving up for something better than an entry level Project.

Well, I did state my opinion as personal and that's all it is. That's not a Dual CS505 turntable you have posted a picture of so not a fair comparison. I wouldn't have kept my Dual for so long if it was a bad TT. It isn't/wasn't but things have moved on, even in TT design and manufacture.

 

[Anonymous]

Cheers again

So, what i have done is set the tracking force and anti-skating to 0, lifted and lowered the tone arm on to the deck then twisted the counterweight until the arm could move freely around in any direction without moving back to a normal.

Then i set both tracking and anti-skating to 2.

Have i done it right? are there any more adjustments i have overlooked? Many thanks

 

[chebby]

Ensure the support on which the turntable sits is level.(Spirit level and/or marbles.)

Ensure the support is rigid and away from the direct line of fire from speakers. Try and avoid placing turntables on large heavy, hollow items of furniture like chests of drawers or cupboards.

When you balanced your arm to zero the stylus tip should hover a couple of millimetres above the mat. (about the thickness of a record) Alternatively (and a lot more accurate and therefore re-assuring) is to use a stylus tracking force gauge. (Shure SFG-2 or the little Ortofon one that costs about a fiver.)

However, what you have done sounds like it should do the trick. Try it. If it sounds OK it is OK.

 

[Henley]

The tracking weight should be the same as the anti skate. For this model you should set both to 1.25g.

Hope this helps.

 

[chebby]

Henley:The tracking weight should be the same as the anti skate. For this model you should set both to 1.25g.

Hope this helps.

The original poster states...

ubercooldave:It came with a Ortofon VMS 20E cartridge ready installed, but the stylus had broken so i replaced the stylus with a VMS 3 mk II on to the VMS 20E cartridge.

...and on the Ortofon stylus website (your own page) the tracking force range for the VMS3 stylus is given as 1.7 - 2.3 grammes...

http://www.henleydesigns.co.uk/product.asp?ProductID=46

Why the advice for 1.25 grammes please?

 

[Henley]

Thanks for that. Our info is wrong and will be corrected.

The tracking weight for that model was 1.2 - 1.5g but for the Dual I would set it at as low as possible.

 

[Henley]

Site corrected, thanks again for spotting the error

 

[Anonymous]

Can I also say that in the Project Debut III manual, it says that the Factory Fitted cartridge needs to be on the third loop of the anti-skating prong, and yet for the amount of downforce (17.5) it says it would need to be on the 2nd loop...which is correct?

 

[Henley]

Hughes123:Can I also say that in the Project Debut III manual, it says that the Factory Fitted cartridge needs to be on the third loop of the anti-skating prong, and yet for the amount of downforce (17.5) it says it would need to be on the 2nd loop...which is correct?

This one's borderline and the correct setting is between the 2 notches so using your ears is the best guide here.

 

[Anonymous]

Henley:Hughes123:Can I also say that in the Project Debut III manual, it says that the Factory Fitted cartridge needs to be on the third loop of the anti-skating prong, and yet for the amount of downforce (17.5) it says it would need to be on the 2nd loop...which is correct?

This one's borderline and the correct setting is between the 2 notches so using your ears is the best guide here.

Ok, thanks...I just hoped I wasn't messing up my records - sweet relief! It's quite a turntable I must admit, especially for £160!