I was thinking about product ratings.......We all do it, read the review and then go out and purchase our beloved 5 star winners.......So does this mean for the manufacture any way 5 stars and a big seller anything less to be a flop and back to the drawing board... My point is i imagine a 5 star product must surely boost sales through the roof and recieving 4 stars or less to be a curse for the engineers to look at it again. Im sure people do buy 4 star product it would not put me off but it must affect sales................What do you guys think
5 star ratings or death by stereo........
- Thread starter robg1976
- Start date
I think What Hi Fi are very keen to promote the notion that only YOU can decide what suits you and to audition the kit you want to buy. We're all different and like different things.
When I set out to buy a complete system a few years' back I convinced myself I'd come home with Arcam kit that had rave reviews and 5 stars all round.
In the demo it left me flat and did nothing for me.
I ended up coming home with a Naim Nait5i amp, CD5i with Dynaudio Audience 52SEs and I loved it then and I love it even more now. The amp gets a 5 star rating but the CD player and speakers only 4.
Why ? Well as What Hi Fi point out, value for money is a consideration. Naim stuff is simply superb, but it is pricey and the distinct lack of features will certainly put some off so perhaps 4 stars is right.
My Dynaudios are special additions so while the standard ones got 5 stars and mine only 4 doesn't mean they're not better, as they clearly are - but not such good value as were an extra £300.
However - I certainly agree that if I were a manufacture I'd jump for joy at a 5 star rating !!!!
I also think that unless your an expert - there's so much choice that at least starting your buying decisions on 5 star ratings is certainly a good idea...
When I set out to buy a complete system a few years' back I convinced myself I'd come home with Arcam kit that had rave reviews and 5 stars all round.
In the demo it left me flat and did nothing for me.
I ended up coming home with a Naim Nait5i amp, CD5i with Dynaudio Audience 52SEs and I loved it then and I love it even more now. The amp gets a 5 star rating but the CD player and speakers only 4.
Why ? Well as What Hi Fi point out, value for money is a consideration. Naim stuff is simply superb, but it is pricey and the distinct lack of features will certainly put some off so perhaps 4 stars is right.
My Dynaudios are special additions so while the standard ones got 5 stars and mine only 4 doesn't mean they're not better, as they clearly are - but not such good value as were an extra £300.
However - I certainly agree that if I were a manufacture I'd jump for joy at a 5 star rating !!!!
I also think that unless your an expert - there's so much choice that at least starting your buying decisions on 5 star ratings is certainly a good idea...
Do you not find though that people tend to buy on the strengths of the star ratings and not what they actually sound like. When i bought my sysytem I listened to a Roksan combo ( 5 star review ) and I must say it wasn't my cup of tea. Everyones musical taste and preferance is different so 5 STARS doesn't always mean good
Which is why we always make it clear that a four-star product could be better for your system and your preferences than a five star - which is the best all-rounder for the money.
I personally use several four-star products in my home system as they suit my musical tastes. But then i've plenty of five-star ones, too, as they're clearly the best at everything.
All shows (as, again, we stress every issue) that you have to look and listen at stuff before you buy - we're merely here to (great phrase coming up that I heard last week) 'choice edit' for you by helping you draw up a shortlist.
I personally use several four-star products in my home system as they suit my musical tastes. But then i've plenty of five-star ones, too, as they're clearly the best at everything.
All shows (as, again, we stress every issue) that you have to look and listen at stuff before you buy - we're merely here to (great phrase coming up that I heard last week) 'choice edit' for you by helping you draw up a shortlist.
That means the usefullnes of star ratings at all should be questioned then. i mean, the only solid piece of advice anyone can ever really give is "trust your ears". if one wants simple rules to follow in order to narrow ones choices, hifi is the wrong game, it seems. Sorry robg1976, that doesnt exactly answer your question.
I disagree - we're talking about the subtle differences between four- and five-star products. There are a heck of a lot of poorer products out there not worth hearing at all...
Indeed. And like Clare, I have a couple of four-star products in my home reference system. Yes, maybe they lack certain facilities or haven't got the latest must-have gizmo, but they suit my purposes and blend well with the rest of my set-up.
As we never stop saying, certain four-star products can work superbly with other components to make a stunning sounding/looking system.
And BTW, if you disagree with our verdicts and prefer to buy something else, that's fine by us. We're here to offer advice and guidance, but at the end of the day it's your money you're spending, and your system, not ours. We just want you to enjoy your music and movies!
As we never stop saying, certain four-star products can work superbly with other components to make a stunning sounding/looking system.
And BTW, if you disagree with our verdicts and prefer to buy something else, that's fine by us. We're here to offer advice and guidance, but at the end of the day it's your money you're spending, and your system, not ours. We just want you to enjoy your music and movies!
No I can/t see the point either. Nice glossy mag but for in-depth reviews try ... Have'nt bought any publications for ages but I flick through them at my mates shop. Four/five stars, who cares you'd think but ... a lot of gullible idiots do. Thats why you see so many '5 star' '5 globes' or whatever products for sale on ebay 5 months after launch.
I heard from someone in publishing that the ratings follow the amount of money the manufacturers spend on advertising with the mags ie. more spend = more stars, or at least favourable reviews.......food for thought.......
[quote user="fergs"]I heard from someone in publishing that the ratings follow the amount of money the manufacturers spend on advertising with the mags ie. more spend = more stars, or at least favourable reviews.......food for thought.......[/quote]
Certainly not anyone in publishing at Haymarket - though some mags published by other companies may work that way.
I can give you many, many examples of either major advertisers getting poor ratings or non-advertisers winning Awards. The only thing that matter to us is how something performs for the money it costs to buy in the shops.
Want absolute up-to-date example? March issue, out this week, has a three-star review of a product that's advertised in premium position on back cover of the same issue.
Certainly not anyone in publishing at Haymarket - though some mags published by other companies may work that way.
I can give you many, many examples of either major advertisers getting poor ratings or non-advertisers winning Awards. The only thing that matter to us is how something performs for the money it costs to buy in the shops.
Want absolute up-to-date example? March issue, out this week, has a three-star review of a product that's advertised in premium position on back cover of the same issue.
[quote user="fergs"]food for thought.......[/quote]
Only if you like roast old chestnuts.
Hmmm... Three hours from OP to ads = eds.
Damn! I had four hours in the office sweepstake.
You know, I wish someone would actually name this 'someone in publsihing' or 'someone from a hi-fi company' who always gets quoted in posts like this.
Only if you like roast old chestnuts.
Hmmm... Three hours from OP to ads = eds.
Damn! I had four hours in the office sweepstake.
You know, I wish someone would actually name this 'someone in publsihing' or 'someone from a hi-fi company' who always gets quoted in posts like this.
[quote user="fergs"]I heard from someone in publishing that the ratings follow the amount of money the manufacturers spend on advertising with the mags ie. more spend = more stars, or at least favourable reviews.......food for thought.......[/quote]
Hmmm. think you'll get a smacked bum for suggestingit, and given that Mission always get the back page and those particular products don't get a good rating I would beg to differ. I work in advertising and the back cover commands a hefty premium.
Hmmm. think you'll get a smacked bum for suggestingit, and given that Mission always get the back page and those particular products don't get a good rating I would beg to differ. I work in advertising and the back cover commands a hefty premium.
[quote user="drummerman"]
No I can/t see the point either. Nice glossy mag but for in-depth reviews try ... Have'nt bought any publications for ages but I flick through them at my mates shop. Four/five stars, who cares you'd think but ... a lot of gullible idiots do. Thats why you see so many '5 star' '5 globes' or whatever products for sale on ebay 5 months after launch.
[/quote]
You are of course correct that people overtrust other people's ears. At the end of the day there are people who like a bright, forward sound like Cambridge and hate what I have for being laid back and relaxing and mellow. And have bought simply because it's 5 star.
Each to their own. It's a risky business buying blind, it's more expensive from a dealer but they mostly let you listen and I'll bet most people come out with something other than what they went in to buy.
No I can/t see the point either. Nice glossy mag but for in-depth reviews try ... Have'nt bought any publications for ages but I flick through them at my mates shop. Four/five stars, who cares you'd think but ... a lot of gullible idiots do. Thats why you see so many '5 star' '5 globes' or whatever products for sale on ebay 5 months after launch.
[/quote]
You are of course correct that people overtrust other people's ears. At the end of the day there are people who like a bright, forward sound like Cambridge and hate what I have for being laid back and relaxing and mellow. And have bought simply because it's 5 star.
Each to their own. It's a risky business buying blind, it's more expensive from a dealer but they mostly let you listen and I'll bet most people come out with something other than what they went in to buy.
Arguably if you get good reviews you don't need to advertise, as your products are already in front of the readers. If you get pants reviews, you should therefore spend more on advertising to make sure readers of a magazine are kept aware of your products.
the only way to be truly objective, is to avoid the 'free lunch' from the (indirect)paymasters, these mags are not charities.....
[quote user="JoelSim"]
You are of course correct that people overtrust other people's ears. [/quote]
But trusting the team of ears that hear just about everything in the market is a good starting place
You are of course correct that people overtrust other people's ears. [/quote]
But trusting the team of ears that hear just about everything in the market is a good starting place
[quote user="Clare Newsome"][quote user="JoelSim"]
You are of course correct that people overtrust other people's ears. [/quote]
But trusting the team of ears that hear just about everything in the market is a good starting place
[/quote]
Said Noddy.
You're quite right. It's also quite right that a product can die a death with a 2 or 3 star review, and if they were my client I would tell them to junk the product if it was reviewed badly in WHF and HFC. Advertising in that instance is like standing at the bus stop handing out £10 notes. It surely must be cheaper to get back into R&D and make it better.
You are of course correct that people overtrust other people's ears. [/quote]
But trusting the team of ears that hear just about everything in the market is a good starting place
[/quote]
Said Noddy.
You're quite right. It's also quite right that a product can die a death with a 2 or 3 star review, and if they were my client I would tell them to junk the product if it was reviewed badly in WHF and HFC. Advertising in that instance is like standing at the bus stop handing out £10 notes. It surely must be cheaper to get back into R&D and make it better.
[quote user="fergs"]the only way to be truly objective, is to avoid the
'free lunch' from the (indirect)paymasters, these mags are not
charities.....[/quote]
Meaning?
WHFSV's ad staff sell the magazine to advertisers on circulation, readership and reach, not the content of reviews.
As such it's arguably in a position to be much more independent of advertiser influence than much smaller-selling titles.
Oh, and you still didn't identify your publishing 'Deep Throat'.
'free lunch' from the (indirect)paymasters, these mags are not
charities.....[/quote]
Meaning?
WHFSV's ad staff sell the magazine to advertisers on circulation, readership and reach, not the content of reviews.
As such it's arguably in a position to be much more independent of advertiser influence than much smaller-selling titles.
Oh, and you still didn't identify your publishing 'Deep Throat'.
[quote user="fergs"]the only way to be truly objective, is to avoid the 'free lunch' from the (indirect)paymasters, these mags are not charities.....[/quote]
We're certainly not a charity - a thriving business, in fact. That's what happens when you're a market-leading title that reaches more consumers than your rivals.
Still has nothing to do with our star ratings, though. Take Philips, as an example - lovely people. Flew our news editor out to IFA this year. Advertise regularly. Now look at the February issue - two three-star ratings for brand-new Philips products before you've got to p21....
We're certainly not a charity - a thriving business, in fact. That's what happens when you're a market-leading title that reaches more consumers than your rivals.
Still has nothing to do with our star ratings, though. Take Philips, as an example - lovely people. Flew our news editor out to IFA this year. Advertise regularly. Now look at the February issue - two three-star ratings for brand-new Philips products before you've got to p21....
professorhat
Well-known member
- Dec 28, 2007
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[quote user="drummerman"]
Four/five stars, who cares you'd think but ... a lot of gullible idiots do.
[/quote]
I think that's a bit harsh! It all comes down to a certain trust really. When I first started out getting my own hi-fi (a lovely second hand Technics system I got from my Grandad when I was 12 which I adored!), I started reading various magazines. As time went on and I started earning money, I went to dealers and started listening to products and comparing my views with these magazines. After a while, you find you tend to agree with one or two magazines more than others and in this case, it was What Hi-Fi for me.
Unfortunately, now I'm older and have more responsibilities, it means I have less time to sit around in dealers auditioning. The stars guide from WHF are therefore an excellent way to cut down my shortlists when it comes to new gear. If a product has a 4 star or a 5 star rating, I know this is a decent piece of equipment worth auditioning. I would never buy a 5 star product blind, but it means I don't have to trawl through lots of rubbish systems to find one I like.
As the team have said, it's there as a guide designed to save time. Of course if you have all the time in the world to audition your hi-fi, then I'm insanely jealous!
Four/five stars, who cares you'd think but ... a lot of gullible idiots do.
[/quote]
I think that's a bit harsh! It all comes down to a certain trust really. When I first started out getting my own hi-fi (a lovely second hand Technics system I got from my Grandad when I was 12 which I adored!), I started reading various magazines. As time went on and I started earning money, I went to dealers and started listening to products and comparing my views with these magazines. After a while, you find you tend to agree with one or two magazines more than others and in this case, it was What Hi-Fi for me.
Unfortunately, now I'm older and have more responsibilities, it means I have less time to sit around in dealers auditioning. The stars guide from WHF are therefore an excellent way to cut down my shortlists when it comes to new gear. If a product has a 4 star or a 5 star rating, I know this is a decent piece of equipment worth auditioning. I would never buy a 5 star product blind, but it means I don't have to trawl through lots of rubbish systems to find one I like.
As the team have said, it's there as a guide designed to save time. Of course if you have all the time in the world to audition your hi-fi, then I'm insanely jealous!
[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
[quote user="fergs"]the only way to be truly objective, is to avoid the
'free lunch' from the (indirect)paymasters, these mags are not
charities.....[/quote]
Meaning?
WHFSV's ad staff sell the magazine to advertisers on circulation, readership and reach, not the content of reviews.
As such it's arguably in a position to be much more independent of advertiser influence than much smaller-selling titles.
[/quote]
Not meaning anything about WHFSAV Andrew. Simply that if a product was given universally bad reviews then it's never going to sell, so get back into the lab and sort it out. No point in advertising in that instance as it will go unnoticed.
There is of course the other point that advertising after a good review can do the brand wonders...if the advertising creative is correct and in keeping with what the brand is about.
Funnily enough Bose never advertise in these mags as their products are not audiophile, they are lifestyle, so they advertise in lifestyle titles.
Good marketing is about expressing the benefits of the products in a relevant way. A 2 star review means this is impossible for that product to have many, if any 'benefits'. Unfortunate, but true.
[quote user="fergs"]the only way to be truly objective, is to avoid the
'free lunch' from the (indirect)paymasters, these mags are not
charities.....[/quote]
Meaning?
WHFSV's ad staff sell the magazine to advertisers on circulation, readership and reach, not the content of reviews.
As such it's arguably in a position to be much more independent of advertiser influence than much smaller-selling titles.
[/quote]
Not meaning anything about WHFSAV Andrew. Simply that if a product was given universally bad reviews then it's never going to sell, so get back into the lab and sort it out. No point in advertising in that instance as it will go unnoticed.
There is of course the other point that advertising after a good review can do the brand wonders...if the advertising creative is correct and in keeping with what the brand is about.
Funnily enough Bose never advertise in these mags as their products are not audiophile, they are lifestyle, so they advertise in lifestyle titles.
Good marketing is about expressing the benefits of the products in a relevant way. A 2 star review means this is impossible for that product to have many, if any 'benefits'. Unfortunate, but true.
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